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To: marktwain

I don’t think modernity led to the defeat and containment of Islam.

Islam had already been contained before by the Eastern Romans in the 9th century.

During the Catholic-Protestant disagreements, you had Hungarian calvinists fighting on the side of the Muslim Ottomans against catholic Hungarians and catholic Austrians. You had Queen Elizabeth I allying with the Barbery pirates against Catholic Spain.

And you had Catholic France allying with the Ottomans against Catholic Hapsburgs - but then the French are always perfidious.

the defeat and containment of Islam was due to
1. the work of al-Ghazali destroying the scientific questioning in the Islamic world
2. Hulagu Khan who destroyed Baghdad and the Caliphate, ending the triumphalism of Islam
3. the reconquista again giving a moral blow to Islam
4. the Marathas conquering the Gurkhani (i.e. the “Mughal”) empire.

did modernity really “contain” it?


19 posted on 12/06/2021 1:11:47 PM PST by Cronos ( One cannot desire freedom from the Cross, especially when one is especially chosen for the cross)
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To: Cronos
1. the work of al-Ghazali destroying the scientific questioning in the Islamic world

2. Hulagu Khan who destroyed Baghdad and the Caliphate, ending the triumphalism of Islam

3. the reconquista again giving a moral blow to Islam

4. the Marathas conquering the Gurkhani (i.e. the “Mughal”) empire.

Those are certainly important items. But Islam came very close to conquering Christendom several times. We might add the various revolts against the Islamic Khan in what is now Russia, which finally succeeded in 1380.

It wasn't until Europe (Christendom) developed science and technology Islam could not match, that the Muslim threat was actually contained, then placed on a serious defensive position, then relegated to third class status with the defeat of the Ottoman Empire.

Nearly all the tech which Christendom developed to defeat Islam passed through the Umma to Europe and Christendom. The Chinese and the Islamics both had first and second chances to develop it and use it and gain final advantage over Christendom.

They either chose not to develop it or could not develop it.

I put the reconquista right at the beginning of the modern era.

That is how I see it; but I do not claim to be a scholar of the conflicts between Islam and Christianity. I have only read some articles and a book or two.

22 posted on 12/06/2021 1:58:34 PM PST by marktwain (Amazing people can read a persons entire personality and character from one photograph.)
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