Posted on 06/22/2023 3:01:47 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal
Well, this post of yours (Post #8) indicates that you have no clue about the nature of the Tribulation.
>>>Well, this post of yours (Post #8) indicates that you have no clue about the nature of the Tribulation.>>>
yeah, tell Christians who were burned to death, starved to death, beaten to death, fed to lions.....talk to them about a “tribulation”. Sounds like you have no idea what a tribulation is.
They got the crown with the cross. You want the crown without the cross. They weren’t wimps looking for a easy way out. Good luck with that.
The word rapture itself is nowhere to be found in the Bible, but the promise behind it is.
Indeed. I fail to see how much clearer Paul and the Holy Spirit could have made it than how the event is described in Scripture.
This whole nonsense of *secret rapture* is a recent invention and used in derision to mock belief in the rapture.
NOBODY ever claimed there would be a secret rapture until the mockers and scoffers came along and accused people of it in a bid to discredit the whole concept.
There are people who deliberately conflate common and proper nouns in a bid to try to convince others of their point of view.
They deliberately downplay the difference between just the kinds of troubles and hardships we face here on earth as part of living in a fallen and corrupted world, and the time period known as The Great Tribulation.
It does not, however, invalidate or discredit the theology of the rapture and the Tribulation.
There is a super-sized difference between a tribulation someone suffers here on an individual or group basis, and The Tribulation explained in Revelation--which is what I mentioned.
No one is denigrating others' tribulations. I've suffered through a few myself. However, those tribulations (lower-case "t") were caused by Satan with God's permission. The Great Tribulation is God's Wrath poured out on the world by God Himself. He will be the active agent in those times.
*That* is the Tribulation that the Church will be spared. God does not deal suffering on His own people. He may allow some, with limitations (See the book of Job), but He does not actively *cause* it on His people.
“The Great Tribulation is God’s Wrath poured out on the world by God Himself. He will be the active agent in those times.”
Is the severe persecution of followers of Jesus an example of God’s wrath?
Matthew 24:9 NKJV
Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.
Revelation 6:9-11 NKJV
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
The wrath of God is only identified in Revelation AFTER the 6th seal:
Revelation 6:16-17 NKJV
And said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
In the end, it doesn’t matter to me if it is pre, mid, or post Great Tribulation.
I know my eternal home is with my Savior.
The only concern I do have is that the faith of those whose faith in Christ is premised on a deliverance from tribulation or the Great Tribulation may fail when tested, and they fall away from faith. (Of course, if they do fall away, did they ever have salvation anyway? I don’t know…)
In the end, it doesn’t matter to me if it is pre, mid, or post Great Tribulation.
I know my eternal home is with my Savior.
The only concern I do have is that the faith of those whose faith in Christ is premised on a deliverance from tribulation or the Great Tribulation may fail when tested, and they fall away from faith. (Of course, if they do fall away, did they ever have salvation anyway? I don’t know…)
My church covered this in their doctrines class While it is important for an individual to have an idea about it and what they believe and be able to defend it (and hopefully explain but also learn from other believers), it is not held up there with the major tenants of our faith. The various pastors at the church hold various views, and they all explained and discussed their views in front of the congregation.
No verbal arguments or fist fights ensued.
I’m a pan-dispensationalist.
.
.
.
.
It will all pan out in the end.
“God didn’t rapture anyone out of the time of trouble....he went through it with them.”
Reading through all of the terrible events described in Revelation is terrifying. But the book is also very clear that God is there with them/us, and is victorious in the end which brings me comfort. (Is already victorious?)
>>>>Reading through all of the terrible events described in Revelation is terrifying. But the book is also very clear that God is there with them/us, and is victorious in the end which brings me comfort. (Is already victorious?)>>>
Amen brother. In Mark 13:9, Jesus said we will be beaten in “synagogues” (that’s just church) and brought before rulers and councils for his name’s sake. Interesting he puts church and state together persecuting God’s people in the end.
Anti Christ is a religious superpower a counterfeit and she leads the world into apostasy including her daughters. Things will be so catastrophically awful, earthquakes leveling cities, pandemics killing millions, wars, economic ruin, crime, ......then like people in a plane going down, everybody cries out to God for help. Masses who never sought truth before so they are deluded.
Laws will be passed to enforce even religious legislation. The 2 beasts of Revelation 13, the is religious, the 2nd is political who causes the world to worship the first beast.
Their is war declared on those who do not go along.....Revelation 12:17 tells us wrath at those “who keep the commandments of God.”
God’s seal is the Sabbath for it bears his name, title, and territory.......”Lord God Creator of heaven and earth.” No different than a presidential seal.....”Joe Biden, President, United States” (just an example I detest Biden)
This is why the Sabbath is an end time most controverted issue. The day a person starts keeping the Sabbath, as a Christian, is the day he becomes hated, attacked, ridiculed. And they all join, across all denominations. So when they don’t go along with “her”.....and her mark of authority.....they are blamed.
As I say.....”you think you hate the Sabbath now, wait till the real fireworks start.”
There is no other reasonable explanation for mark of the beast anti Christ, etc. The visison of Daniel tell us exactly where Anti Christ comes from....Rome. Daniel 2 and Daniel 7. Even the forward to the original King James Bible identifies the “man of sin” as the Popish person.
It’s all coming together. The world is going to Rome and she is receiving them. Her wound has healed and God is calling his people out of that system and any one who reaches out to her.
My friend just accepted the Sabbath...he told me he could not believe how it all adds up after studying Daniel and Revelation. Amen.....Lord come quickly.
But for us..many will die and we don’t care. We will soon be going home to be with Jesus forever.
Besides claiming it’s wimpy, which is not Biblical, can you find in scripture where it says what you believe? ( John was not a wimp). Simply line and verse, that doesn’t contradict what Jesus said? The only way through this is to study scripture with scripture.
Be careful, you are stating feelings over and over again and that’s something the devil uses. Look how many people “feel” they are the wrong sex and so call themselves trans. Feelings can also indicate something is wrong as well but your use of “wimp” cries vanity and that’s not Biblical. Even the Apostles questioned when they learned of John’s fate.
In RC Sproul’s book, Knowing Scripture, it does says to be careful with predictive prophecy because people can interpret it wrong because they are not using the correct translated word. So we must used scripture with scripture. I want to be cautious but I also want to be alert as well. These times are rapidly changing and becoming more and more deadly and I worry for so many young children. What I see in South Africa and China is no doubt coming here. But I also know God is in control. Some will suffer, some will escape. I have no clue about my fate or my family’s so I pray often for protection.
Let us pray for discernment when dealing with prophetic scripture and pursue the truth, with love, in Christ.
——>There is no other reasonable explanation for mark of the beast anti Christ, etc. The visison of Daniel tell us exactly where Anti Christ comes from....Rome.
THEY WILL NOT LISTEN! Daniel is very clear that the 4th beast is PAGAN ROME, and the Little Horn Antichrist, COMES OUT OF PAGAN ROME. Literally every Protestant Reformer knew it, and many were tortured and murdered for that belief.
This whole nonsense of *secret rapture* is a recent invention and used in derision to mock belief in the rapture.
NOBODY ever claimed there would be a secret rapture until the mockers and scoffers came along and accused people of it in a bid to discredit the whole concept.
“I am not aware that there was any definite teaching that there would be a SECRET RAPTURE of the Church at a secret coming, until this was given forth as an utterance in Mr. Irving’s Church, from what was there received as being the voice of the Spirit. But whether anyone ever asserted such a thing or not, it was from that supposed revelation that the modern doctrine and the modern phraseology respecting it arose. It came not from Holy Scripture, but from that which falsely pretended to be the Spirit of God, while not owning the true doctrine of our Lord’s incarnation in the same flesh and blood as His brethren, but without taint of sin.
The Hope of Christ’s Second Coming: How is it Taught in Scripture? And Why? S. P. Tregelles. March 17, 1864.
§ VIII. (p.23.)
“But there is a very different theory of the coming of the Lord as the hope of His Church, which many teach, and which many more receive, as though it were unquestioned truth.”
“It is said that there shall be a SECRET coming of the Lord Jesus Christ; that at this SECRET coming His believing people who are in their graves shall be raised, and the living changed, and that a secret rapture of the Church shall then take place; that this SECRET coming and SECRET rapture are our hope, and not the manifested appearing of Christ in the clouds of heaven.”
“It is said that after this SECRET removal of the Church, the full manifestation of human evil, for some years at least, will take place, during which time shall be the display of the power of Antichrist,—the persecutions foretold in the Revelation, the extreme trials of Israel, the unequaled tribulation,—and that the end of this will be the manifestation of Christ visibly coming with His Church in the cloud of glory.”
“This is the doctrine of the SECRET coming of Christ, which many now preach as if it were the acknowledged truth of God, instead of its being (as is really the case) that which at every point would require proof from Scripture.”
“But not only is this doctrine of the coming of Christ not taught in the Word of God, but if, in what has been previously said, there is any point of truth, then this whole system stands in distinct contradiction of what the Scripture reveals.”
>>>>THEY WILL NOT LISTEN! Daniel is very clear that the 4th beast is PAGAN ROME, and the Little Horn Antichrist, COMES OUT OF PAGAN ROME. Literally every Protestant Reformer knew it, and many were tortured and murdered for that belief.>>>>
Yes, sadly it’s all new theology. They don’t even realize where it came from. Preterism and Futurism both have Jesuit influence because they know Rome is the little horn so they invented this theology of dispensationalism. Everything in the old testament is Jewish and law, the new is grace and Jesus.
As if Jesus wasn’t around in the old testament and God had 2 says to save people. No protestant reformer ever taught their nonsense. It comes from the scofield Darby Bible and all the TV and evangelicals have bought it.
That’s why they had to get rid of the ten commandments because of the Sabbath. So when it comes to the sabbath.hey, no law, we are under grace. But when it comes abortion or homosexuality or whatever their favorite sin to pick on people about......suddenly they have laws again.
I’m beginning to think they hate the Sabbath because it exposes them and takes away the fun they have of judgeing and condemning others when they close their eyes to the holy day.
If I was gay, I’d be pointing at them right back.....hypocrits..you don’t even keep the 4th commandment so get outta here with your hypocrisy.
The Sabbath is a very controverted issue and will be to the end because the final showdown is over God’s law. and God will not allow his people to be persecuted after he’s had enough of it.and they do hate the Sabbath now. Imagine when the real fireworks start. There will be unity by them... at the expense of truth. Buckle up...it’s gonna get rough.
Rome hates the Sabbath....it exposes her. And they hate it too...and unity is coming. It’s already coming....and Sunday is common to both in the end.
You are a hoot…. Rome is the center of evil, yet you signed up to FR to support a Roman Catholic for president.. cray, cray, even on a good day.. Now go keep your day holy.
The Sabbath is a very controverted issue and will be to the end because the final showdown is over God’s law. and God will not allow his people to be persecuted after he’s had enough of it.and they do hate the Sabbath now. Imagine when the real fireworks start. There will be unity by them... at the expense of truth. Buckle up...it’s gonna get rough.
Rome hates the Sabbath....it exposes her. And they hate it too...and unity is coming. It’s already coming....and Sunday is common to both in the end.
Which means that they hate God’s authority.
>>>Which means that they hate God’s authority.>>>
They are deceived and it’s sad how much they detest the Sabbath. It’s a blessing to mankind. They make it out to be a yoke of bondage which is exactly what the pharisees did! That’s the irony.
And being so shallow, they think it’s about a day. Heck, the Sabbath could have been tuesday if God wanted it to be. It’s nto about a day.....it’s about who my authority is. My authority is the Lord of the Sabbath....not a church council. Amen.......and Sabbath blessings!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.