The Lessons of the Roman Empire for America Today

Heritage Foundation ^ | December 19, 2005 | Rufus Fears

[Cronos]

Quite right -- Baghdad was founded by the Ummayyads in the 7th century, so that rules out the legionnaires and I don't think the Crusaders ever reached so far east -- they mostly played out in what is now Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and (of course) Israel.

[Cronos]

Actually speaking -- Rome never really fell. It didn't disapper off the face of the earth like Assyria, Babylonia, Pharoanic Egypt etc. It's language lives on in France, Spain, Portugal, Latin America, Romania and into English speaking countries as well, it's culture is prevalent over all of the Americas and Europe and in India. It's later religion is Roman Catholicism AND Eastern Orthodoxy and that's still alive. It survived as a political entity until 1492 -- remember that the Emperors in COnstantinople wouldn't have known what you were talking about if you called them Emperors of Byzantium -- they were Emperors of Rome.

No, Rome never fell.

[Cronos]

What apparently really happened, is that a climate change had occurred that put pressure on the "horse people" of the steppe, who pushed outward against both the Persians and the Germanic tribes, who then pushed against Rome

What's interesting is that these tribes were pushed in the East by China whose Emperors took on raids against these nomads to prevent them attacking China and they expanded their northern defense walls. So, the Chinese caused the attacks on Rome ;-P

[Cronos]

During the Roman Empire.. everyones armies pretty much had the same technology .. swords, bow/arrows, maces, etc

well, no, the Romans had formidable seige engines and catapaults. Their archers were the best trained as were their legionnaires. They also used the shorter sword combined with a large shield -- very useful against Barbarians with large swords (difficult in close quarters) with small shields (easy to stick your sword past it)

[Verginius Rufus]

Rome continued to expand her empire until the reign of Trajan (A.D. 98-117). Fears seems to fault Augustus for failing to conquer all of Germany, but after the disaster of the Teutoburger Forest in A.D. 9, when three Roman legions were annihilated, it didn't seem practical to bring all of Germany under Roman control.

One big change that happens later is the rise of the new Persian Empire under the Sassanid dynasty (3rd century A.D.)...more formidable than the Parthians had been. Rome had to spend a lot of energy fighting the Persians just to hold on to what she had conquered earlier.

The political system had worked until the second century B.C. because the aristocrats competing for the highest offices played by the rules. That broke down in the first century, starting with Sulla's capture of Rome in 88 B.C. Julius Caesar was the fourth Roman commander in 40 years to capture Rome as part of a political struggle with his enemies. After he won the civil war, elections became a farce, but even before he crossed the Rubicon things weren't running very well--a couple of times in the 50s the year started with no officials elected because of the turmoil.

[Verginius Rufus]

I think you meant Lake Trasimene instead of Lake Kasimere...there was a famous battle near Lake Trasimene in 217 B.C. in which Hannibal defeated the Roman consul Flaminius (who was killed in the battle). Lake Trasimene is near Perugia.

The battle in which Scipio Africanus supposedly saved his father's life was at the River Ticinus (a tributary of the Po), near the end of 218. His father was killed in Spain in 211 fighting against Mago, the brother of Hannibal, and Hasdrubal the son of Gisgo. I think Scipio Africanus was in Italy at the time of his father's death (he had recently been curule aedile in Rome). When the news reached Rome that Scipio's father and uncle had been killed in Spain, he was sent there as a proconsul, a very unusual step because he had not held any of the offices with imperium (praetor, consul, dictator, or magister equitum).

[Casloy]

No, Rome never fell.

You make an excellent point. Before WWII the sun never set on the British Isles. They had colonies all over the world, hence the name, the British Empire. Now they are simply Britain. If we are going to claim that Rome fell, then it stands to reason we must claim that Britain fell.

[robowombat]

What happened would better be described as 'The Collapse of British Power', to use the name of one Corelli Barnett's books.

[ffusco]

The Byzantines considered themselves Romans. Rome was more of an idea than a nation or ethnic group and that idea never really died.

[SunkenCiv]

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[investigateworld]

( Good post!);^)