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Early Welsh warriors in red who once defeated the mighty Romans
IC Wales ^ | March 9, 2007 | by Sam Burson, Western Mail

Posted on 03/24/2007 6:16:33 AM PDT by aculeus

A HARDY band of Welshmen in red, who took on the might of the Italians 2,000 years ago, could prove inspirational for tomorrow's Welsh Six Nations warriors.

A leading historian has documented the exploits of the ancient Silures tribe, who fought a long campaign against the Romans two millennia ago.

Dr Ray Howell from the University of Wales, Newport, even says our penchant for wearing red may spring from the tribe's favourite battle colour.

Dr Howell, a reader at the university's School of Education, has published an examination of the South-East Wales tribe, who came close to thwarting the Roman domination of southern Britain.

He said, "What emerges is not only a warrior society, but also a sophisticated people who traded widely and made good use of horses and horse-drawn vehicles.

"They had war chariots with equestrian equipment decorated with red enamel. For the Silures the colour of war was emphatically red.

"I'm sure it would be impossible to prove, but it could be that the reason Wales is associated with red now, and why Welsh players will be wearing red when they take to the field in Italy, is to do with the culture of the Silures.

"Certainly one of the things which has struck me is how much they used red in pretty much anything to do with battle."

He believes the Silures tribe were more advanced than most people give them credit for, having waged a ferocious guerrilla campaign against the Romans which lasted far longer than even the famous Boudica-led revolt.

The Iron-Age tribe managed to defeat a whole Roman legion during their bloody campaign.

And even though their attacks from hill forts were eventually subdued after a quarter of a century, Dr Howell believes some of the culture of the tribe, which is likely to have spoken an extremely early form of Welsh, lived on after the Romans left Britain for good.

In his new book, Searching for the Silures, he shows how the tribe was able to rout the Romans for 25 years before the all-conquering legions were able to build their fortress at Isca, now Caerleon.

Dr Howell contends that the Welsh tribe was the cause of possibly the greatest headache for Rome as it tried to impose its ways on ancient Britain.

He said, "You can make a case for saying the Silures caused as much trouble for the Romans as any other British tribe, and that includes the Boudican revolt, which nearly forced the Romans out of Britain.

"The Silures took a lot longer to defeat - there was a 25-year guerrilla war including the defeat of a legion."

He believes the tribe was so successful because it was highly advanced.

"One of the things I hope comes across strongly in the book is that they were very sophisticated. They weren't savages.

"If you look at the hill forts and groups they were in, they were very well structured.

"They were using wheeled vehicles a lot - basically chariots, and we've found loads of horse trappings.

"If they were using wheeled vehicles to that extent there must have been roads or tracks of some sort."

He believes there is still plenty more for archaeologists to discover about the civilisation, with just five of some 40 hill forts in Gwent having been explored.

He also believes that, although military defeat did eventually come for the Silures, their culture lived on.

He said, "Despite a long period of Roman occupancy, a lot of their traditions went right through to the early medieval period. People weren't speaking Latin, they were speaking what we now know as new British, which evolved into old Welsh.

"There's also art and a body of evidence that makes it seem as if the Silures tradition was pretty durable."


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: boudica; britainbeforerome; godsgravesglyphs; romanempire; romans; rome; silures; totalbs; wales; welsh
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1 posted on 03/24/2007 6:16:36 AM PDT by aculeus
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To: aculeus

The British also wore red and look what happened to them.


2 posted on 03/24/2007 6:17:39 AM PDT by mtbopfuyn (I think the border is kind of an artificial barrier - San Antonio councilwoman Patti Radle)
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To: SunkenCiv

ping


3 posted on 03/24/2007 6:18:02 AM PDT by Perdogg (Cheney-Bolton 2008)
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To: mtbopfuyn

[snicker]

But come on now, they'r our buds now right???

#3 for the crown is going over there to fight with us against the real enemy now...

Even though he's just a leftenant, in charge of a scout troop, I believe he should take charge and commence offensive operations on Iran as soon as he hits the ground over there...

They have 15 of his subjects in custody for doing their jobs...

I think we should support them...Right???

Come on...It'll be fun! I promise!


4 posted on 03/24/2007 6:24:00 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (Houston Area Texans (I've always been hated))
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To: mtbopfuyn

We can all were some red too...


5 posted on 03/24/2007 6:24:37 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (Houston Area Texans (I've always been hated))
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To: aculeus

6 posted on 03/24/2007 6:31:38 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy ( for those in Rio Linda, there's Conservapedia)
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To: aculeus

bump


7 posted on 03/24/2007 6:55:23 AM PDT by bubman
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To: aculeus

SO they didnt look like they did in the movie King Arthur?


8 posted on 03/24/2007 6:55:36 AM PDT by aft_lizard (born conservative...I chose to be a republican)
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To: Oztrich Boy

It's probably not the reason I wear red.


9 posted on 03/24/2007 6:57:02 AM PDT by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: aculeus
The Germanic tribes west of the Oder actually succeeded in driving and keeping the Romans out.
10 posted on 03/24/2007 7:09:07 AM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: aculeus; MoochPooch; Michael81Dus; Vicomte13; az_gila; Experiment 6-2-6; henkster; CT-Freeper; ...
Europe pinglist

If you want on or off the list, go to the link for instructions. Otherwise, it won't be guaranteed that you will be put on or taken off (it still won't be 100% guaranteed, anyway, but will be much more highly probable).

11 posted on 03/24/2007 7:10:35 AM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: aculeus

"Dr Howell contends that the Welsh tribe was the cause of possibly the greatest headache for Rome as it tried to impose its ways on ancient Britain."

The Picts came at a Roman soldier in pairs. When one was impaled on the soldier's spear, the other one finished off the Roman soldier.

After the Romans finished building the 72-mile-long Hadrian's wall across the entire British island, to keep them out of Roman Briton, they came after the Romans around the end of the wall in boats!


12 posted on 03/24/2007 8:16:59 AM PDT by RoadTest (Get our Marines out of Pendleton's Kangaroo court!)
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To: Perdogg; blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; 49th; ...
Thanks Perdogg.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

13 posted on 03/24/2007 8:38:47 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Saturday, March 24, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: mtbopfuyn

'The British also wore red and look what happened to them.'

Yep, they went on to have the largest empire the world has ever seen directly ruling one quarter of the earths surface and one third of her population.

That was what you meant wasn't it? :D


14 posted on 03/24/2007 8:55:27 AM PDT by britemp
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To: aculeus

'A HARDY band of Welshmen in red, who took on the might of the Italians 2,000 years ago'

Damn, they were clever. They took on the might of the Roman Army invading Britain 48 years before Rome invaded Britain!

Now that's what I call a pre-emptive strike! ;-)


15 posted on 03/24/2007 8:58:45 AM PDT by britemp
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To: aculeus
"Lewis" is Welsh for "Warrior." We Lewises have the 20th most common last name on earth. Our great proliferation means we Lewises are not only good Warriors but great Lovers, too!
16 posted on 03/24/2007 9:30:53 AM PDT by Hebrews 11:6 (Do you REALLY believe that (1) God is, and (2) God is good?)
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To: SunkenCiv
the ancient Silures tribe,

I believe they weren't finally defeated until about 30 years ago, and it took Doctor Who to do it.

17 posted on 03/24/2007 9:57:31 AM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Islam: a Satanically Transmitted Disease, spread by unprotected intimate contact with the Koranus.)
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To: aculeus

The people who live behind Ofas Dyke have a very high concentration of one blood type. It's either 'A' or 'O' (I'm not going to reread the book), which are the most common in Europe. It's the high concentration of one or the other that is unique.


18 posted on 03/24/2007 11:16:18 AM PDT by blam
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To: ApplegateRanch
I liked Dr. Who's assistant - the girl. She was HOT!!!!

Book looks like an interesting read. How much is fact and how much is speculation is to be determined.

The Romans pretty much defeated the Silures and Ordovices and associated tribes eventually.

It was my understanding the contemporary Welsh, the people who gave the Anglo-Saxons and Normans such trouble, were actually descendants of the pre-Anglo-Saxon Romanized Britons who were forced from their lands by the Germanic Tribes during the Volkerwanderung, rather than pure lineal blood decedents of the Silures and Ordovices.

There is speculation that the Welsh Dragon, the title Pendragon, and the sword in the stone motif actually came from Roman legions and Roman auxiliaries from eastern Europe (Sarmatians) who were stationed in Wales during the Roman occupation.

Its true that Hermann was responsible for thwarting Roman plans to expand deeper into Germania. However, the Romans DID launch a massive retaliatory raid into Germany later and recovered at least two of the lost legionary eagles. Further, Bavaria was occupied by the Romans and Alsace-Lorraine was Roman territory and it really is part of Germany - recent history notwithstanding.

The power that gave the Romans the most serious headaches was the ancestor of current enemy - the Persians.

By the time of the invasion of Britain, a significant part of the Imperial Army was recruited from non-Italian populations, with the officer class being mainly Italian. However a non-Italian named Vespasian was also involved in the operation.

By the time of the early Empire, "Roman" was not an ethnic adjective, but a cultural one. The reason Rome stood so long and lasted so long was because of its willingness to adopt other peoples into its ruling class and soldier society and, in effect, Romanize, non-Italic peoples like the Illyrians, Celt-Iberians, Germans, Gauls, etc.

The reason it fell - which should be a warning to us as a Nation now - is it had cease to "Romanize" new immigrant populations, allowing them to retain their own customs, leaders, and LANGUAGE.

Consequently the Goths, Vandals, etc, continued to think of themselves as Goths and Vandals in Roman territory, rather than as, say the Dalmatians and Gauls had been made to think of themselves as Romans, serving in Roman legionary forces, adopting Roman customs and speaking Latin.
19 posted on 03/24/2007 11:36:01 AM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: ZULU

"The reason it fell - which should be a warning to us as a Nation now - is it had cease to "Romanize" new immigrant populations, allowing them to retain their own customs, leaders, and LANGUAGE."

I agree with your warning, and though we may not see it in our lifetime...I believe the die is cast unless extreme and radical changes are made.

I'd be interested in reading Roman history at the point of the deRomanizing ( so to speak). Any reading suggestions for that part of their history?


20 posted on 03/24/2007 11:54:25 AM PDT by rbmillerjr ("Message to radical jihadis...come to my hood, it's understood ------ it's open season" Stuck Mojo)
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