Posted on 10/22/2008 9:25:20 AM PDT by Jack Black
I've lived through some turbulent years of American history, but I have never seen our country more polarized, more divided, more ripe for – dare I say it? – breakup, dissolution, a secessionist movement. I admit I'm unafraid of radical ideas – if those radical ideas are just, righteous, moral and godly. I believe it's time for radical ideas – just as it was time in 1776. Frankly, I don't see a way to unite a people as divided as Americans are today. We are trying to pretend we're one nation when we are really two. One of those two nations clings to the promises and covenants of the past, the Bible, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, as the guiding principles. The other believes in and lives with no immutable standards. It's not a Republican vs. Democrat split – as the current election illustrates. I know many Republicans would find themselves more comfortable in the country of no standards. I also suspect many Democrats would actually find themselves more at home in the nation of the Bible, Declaration and Constitution. Isn't it time for separation? Is the breakup of the union really such a difficult thing to consider?
Isn't it time for separation? Is the breakup of the union really such a difficult thing to consider? When there are no new lands to discover, what choice do we have?
....
There's only one way to recapture the greatness of America. That is to start over – with only those willing to play by the rules. Let those who don't believe in rules have their own country to destroy.
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
The Blue States have the money because they have the more developed economies. Certainly, places like the South have been developing heavily in the last few decades, but they are still generally more poor than places like New York or California.
It sounds like heaven, or Cuba, maybe the New Europe.
And with allies like Chavez, Castro's minions, Iranians, Syrians, I say wow.
But who would Code Pink protest? Or the Black Panthers? Nation of Islam? The new Weathermen? The ACLU? The NAACP?
With no icky Christians or Jews, who would be their boogyman?
No thanks, I'll take a new beginning with the old Constitution, with real men, and real Americans, real churches, real capitalism, real education, real work.
What exactly do you mean by more developed economies? I’ve lived in four states (Maryland, California, Delaware and Virginia) and spent a fair amount of time (at least a month) in several others. This is a purely a matter of preference, of course, but given the choice I’d much rather spend time in somewhere like North Carolina or Texas than I would in New York City or Boston. Strange how the places that have the most money and development are the more impersonal and difficult to get along in.
Again, I make no pretense that this is objective.
If we return to the principles of the Constitution, secession is not necessary.
With a country as large as ours, a single all-powerful federal government doesn’t scale. There is no way that a single government entity can be nimble enough to account for the needs of both the people in large metropolitan areas like San Francisco and rural areas in Kansas. They have different needs, different standards, and different expectations, and trying to apply one set of rules to both leads to the divisions that we see now.
The problem is that neither the Republicans nor the Democrats have any interest in shrinking the scope of the federal government; once the power has been allocated, they’re obviously not going to give it back. We can’t assign the blame to one party more than the other, either; the Democrats hypocritically talk about civil liberties while clamping down on video games and speech that they see as “dangerous”, while the Republicans (Nixon, Reagan, Bush) have all expanded federal legislation to enforce subjective moral codes and limit personal freedom and responsibility (War on Drugs, prohibitions on gambling and prostitution). Read some of the conservative opposition to the Lawrence vs. Texas decision (http://www.glapn.org/sodomylaws/lawrence/lawrence.htm); it goes well beyond the correct analysis that it infringes on states rights, and moves into the frightening territory that the state should be in the business of regulating peoples’ sexuality.
The problem we have in America isn’t that we have groups of people with different opinions living in close proximity, but that we try to enforce our personal beliefs on others through federal legislation. Instead, we need to stop — at the federal level — raiding California medical marijuana clinics, censoring speech that is critical of Muslims or any other religious group, and criticizing people who engage in private sexual behavior that we find “icky”. Instead, if we were to apply those standards at the local level and leave the federal government to only worry about the borders and intrastate commerce, I think we would all see fewer calls for the next civil war from both sides.
If those were the only people supporting Obama, he would get maybe 10% of the vote. But for some reason I can't quite fathom, around 50% of the nation's voters seems to support the guy. They include people like my sister- and brother-in-law who do not fall into any of those categories.
Anyway, the idea that an Obama administration would outlaw Christianity or do the other scary stuff you listed is tin foil hat stuff. In any event, I'm pretty confident we will have a President McCain come January.
An objective standard- a higher income level per capita. Nothing more.
OK...
But freedom is the great equalizer.
If we establish it, stabilize it and defend it, business WILL flourish. The population WILL flourish, because that is what happens when you unburden people.
Of course, I meant to say “interstate commerce”. It looks like KeyesPlease beat me to the punch with a similar thought in post 64, anyway.
OK, but I hope you’re not falling into the trap of a higher income necessarily equating to a better standard of living.
I agree with Farah.
May I make a suggestion, particularly to people who post articles?
Could you please copy and paste rather than type the names of articles, websites, and authors? There are entirely unnecessary errors in each of these all over FR.
Joseph Farah, for example, does not spell his last name with two R’s.
Copying and pasting will ensure that your fellow Freepers can find what they want when they search, first, and increase the reputation of FR as a place that cares about accuracy and truth instead of being a sloppy repository of sloppy thinking.
I know we’re usually in a hurry to spread news, but copying and pasting will actually save you time. If you must type something, please check to be sure that what you have typed is correct. Shoddiness does not advance the cause — in fact, it sets it back and hurts everyone.
Please do not take offense at my words. I know you all have the best motives possible and I count you among the true patriots and am proud to know each and every one of you, particularly those of you who consistently make sure that we are all as fully informed as we can be. You have my gratitude. Please consider my offering here as a contribution toward the cause and nothing else.
Read the history books closer, my FRiend. That is EXACTLY what happened last time around. The last war was, literally, "brother against brother," and so will be the next one.
The problem is that the federal government has a taste for the “blood” of the citizens now. Simply ignoring it will change nothing, it must either be “put down” or separated from its cattle.
You are correct that he is supported by most (50%) Americans who believe in one or more of the ideologies I expressed. But just because most modern Americans are sniveling, spoiled, weaklings....does not mean the rest of us have to agree, and not battle against them. (your 10% or less is plain ignorance)
As far as Christians go, the hate crime bill he will pass will regulate speech in churches, this is happening in Canada for journalists too.
So lets’ not pretend that Americans who willingly elect an UnAmerican Democrat Party, and a man like Hussein, (for gov goodies) would somehow protest a bunch of wacko Christians being incarcerated or penalized for “hate” speech that could lead to “violence”.
History shows that all over the world, human beings put up with anything for a “gov ck”, for gov “protection”, “stability”, and so one.
There are all sorts of claims and counter-claims that are made but in truth it is hard to say. Is a SSI recipient in New York a federal subsidy to the state?
Wikipedia Article on Tax and Spending across the states
Here is the most recent report I've seen on it, but it's from way back in 1995:
The top five states in federal spending per capita were:
Rank State Amount Per Capita
1 Virginia $7,830
2 Maryland $7,361
3 New Mexico $7,130
4 Alaska $6,927
5 Hawaii $6,386
The county report shows the top five recipient county areas were:
Rank County/County Equivalent Amount
1 New York City, NY $40.6
billion 2 Los Angeles County, CA $40.2
billion 3 Cook County, IL $23.0
billion 4 San Diego County, CA $16.5
billion 5 Philadelphia County, PA $12.2
billion
Direct payments for individuals was the largest federal spending category in each of those top five counties.
Defense spending, which includes payroll, defense contracts and grants, and military pensions, totaled $228 billion in 1995. The top five recipient counties of federal defense spending were:
Rank County Amount
1 Los Angeles County, CA $7.9 billion
2 San Diego County, CA $7.4 billion
3 St. Louis City, MO $5.7 billion
4 Newport News City, VA $4.2 billion
5 Fairfax County, VA $4.2 billion
“The issues that separate us are socialism and public morality. “
Public morality. How is that defined? or delineated ? I am a Christian. I get my morals from the Bible. it’s pretty easy for me to determine what is right and wrong.
I know there are a lot of non-Christian Conservatives, but what I don’t understand is how morality is then defined?
If it is a general consensus of public opinion . . . isn’t that how we got here ?
If we DID secede, and start a “new” country, how would you ensure it didn’t go the way of the “old” one ?
Yeah, some of the boogy man stuff like imprisoning Christians is over the top and not really needed to justify absolving our ties to a marxist government and country.
The ONLY justification needed is the federal governments adoption of marxist mechanisms and by default, voiding the constitution. Thats it... Thats all that is required to justify breaking it off. The ONLY thing that held this collection of states together was a common belief in the declaration and the constitution. Now that it has been thrown out (yes, its already been tossed) there is NOTHING holding us here other than a sense of loss for what was.
Whos’ to say the people in the Blue states that don’t believe in Liberalism can’t “seceed” like West Virginia did in the Civil War../
You cant insure against it.
All you can do is try to place additional checks based on what youve learned in the past.
Tighten up the voting standards, for one.
Take treason seriously, for another.
But the nanny-staters (left mostly, but as you point out some right too) do not want to relax their grip on us via the FedGov beast.
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