[Enchante]

Fascinating info on experiments now underway - in my naivete I'd imagined that before all the AGW hype had been allowed to get going, it would already be well understood to what extent other factors (such as cosmic rays and cloud formation in this case) may or may not affect the "climate" that humans experience on our planet earth. Well, actually, it turns out that a major series of experiments to examine exactly these issues has been delayed for many years (possibly/probably by the politics of AGW).

I'm no scientist, so of course I may be missing all the subtleties that Phil Jones, Michael Mann, et al understand so brilliantly...... BUT, I'd think it obvious that you can't go about drawing large conclusions about possible AGW without a high level of confidence that all other causes have been ruled out.

Now it seems that the major experiments in this area of cosmic rays and cloud formation are only now underway. Maybe it will or maybe it won't have any bearing on the AGW and CO2 debates, but it seems incredible to me that all these people, supposedly scientists, have been running their mouths for years about AGW and "climate change" when the kinds of experiments described here had not even been done, so there was no way to rule out the extent of possible influence of the sun on these phenomena. Seems like an ass-backwards way to proceed to my little non-scientific mind....... but what do we peons know, compared to our betters like Phil Jones and Michael Mann and Al Gore?

[Hat tip to algernonpj who posted link to a different article on the subject of the CLOUD experiments]

[Enchante]

started a thread with a doc I found on the CERN website which gives more info about the status of the CLOUD cosmic ray experiments there..... sounds like it’s been delayed more because they are now expecting to start getting some initial results during 2010

incredible that this was not done many years ago if the whole AGW/climate change hoopla depends upon the assumption that the sun has had little or no effect upon 20th century climate (leaving aside for the moment the issue that any warming seems to have stopped in the last decade)....

I don’t pretend to any scientific expertise, but it does astonish me that anyone in the “climate science community” could make grand claims about AGW and CO2 unless it were strongly established that the sun is NOT relevant to changes being discussed. If it’s still quite possible that cosmic rays account for 50% or more of such changes, and other atmospheric processes may not yet be completely understood, then how can anyone rationally express confidence in an AGW hypothesis?

[alecqss]

Cosmic rays are simply no match for humans and cows, not to mention SUVs.

[flash2368]

Well lets hope they are doing something with it. The last time they updated the “cloud” website was in 2006.

I am anxious to see the results of the experiments if they are doing any. I think the lack of sunspots and resultant increase in cosmic rays hitting the Earth in the past 2 years has had a profound effect on climate.

[Enchante]

Is it possible that *we* earthlings don't even know what effects (if any) cosmic rays may have upon cloud formation and associated climate effects?? Is it possible that all the AGW bluster and bloviating has proceeded before there was scientific understanding of one of the fundamental aspects of earth's atmosphere?

related thread which gave rise to this one

[mo]

bound and determined to “get” their “data” anyway they can...

[steelyourfaith]

 

Beam me to Planet Gore !

[Star Traveler]

Here's some information that's been out for quite a while. It's probably the best video documentary to watch on the subject of "Anthropogenic Global Warming"... show it to everyone you know...

It’s one thing to gripe and complain about these things and disagree with it, but it’s quite another to convince your friends and neighbors and relatives and coworkers...

THEREFORE..., it’s also absolutely necessary for people to know the information in the following documentary. If there were simply one video that you could see and/or show people you know... this would be the one...

---

The following is an excellent video documentary on the so-called “Global Warming” I would recommend it to all FReepers. It’s a very well-made documentary.

“The Great Global Warming Swindle”

If you want to download it, via a BitTorrent site (using a BitTorrent client), you can get it at the following link. Information about BitTorrent protocol and BitTorrent clients and their comparison at these three links (in this sentence). Some additional BitTorrent information here and here.

Download it here...
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3635222/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle
[This is a high-quality copy, of about a gigabyte in size. This link is the information about it, and you have to click the download link to get it on your BitTorrent client software. You'll also find users' comments here, too.]

It’s worth seeing and having for relatives, friends, neighbors and coworkers to see.

Also, see it online here...
http://www.moviesfoundonline.com/great_global_warming_swindle.php
[this one is considerably lower quality, is a flash video and viewable online, of course..., and also, you can download flash video on a website either yourself or some software doing it.]

Buy it on DVD here...
[this would be the very highest quality version, on a DVD disk, of several gigabytes in size...] At Amazon, it seems to be high-priced now and have only a few copies right now.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WLUXZE

At WAGtv (a UK shop), but don't know about shipping. The price is reasonable, though.
https://www.wagtv.com/product/The-Great-Global-Warming-Swindle-322.html
[And..., some information from WAGtv about this item.]

---

Also, in split parts on YouTube...

The Great Global Warming Swindle (Part 1 of 9)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TqqWJugXzs

The Great Global Warming Swindle (Part 2 of 9)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5rGpDMN8lw

The Great Global Warming Swindle (Part 3 of 9)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzFL6Ixe_bo

The Great Global Warming Swindle (Part 4 of 9)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNQy2rT_dvU

The Great Global Warming Swindle (Part 5 of 9)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dzIMXGI6k8

The Great Global Warming Swindle (Part 6 of 9)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GjOgQN1Jco

The Great Global Warming Swindle (Part 7 of 9)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHI2GfbfrYw

The Great Global Warming Swindle (Part 8 of 9)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N9benJh3Lw

The Great Global Warming Swindle - Credits (Part 9 of 9)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_1ifP-ri58

[mountainlion]

Cosmic rays have been suspected in triggering lightning. They could cause the atmosphere to heat up also.

[Wonder Warthog]

"But despite the controversy surrounding the theory, the central question – ‘do cosmic rays help create clouds?’ – has barely been tested in a laboratory before."

Excuse me?? "Cloud Chambers" (containers with air and moisture near the water saturation point) have been used to detect nuclear events just about forever. I suspect back in the early days of nuclear physics they built cloud chambers the equal or larger than the one these guys plan to build. And I suspect they were operated across the spectrum of conditions these guys are planning to examine.

The only thing the seems to be "new" about this is they're gonna shoot their pretty little accelerator proton beam into it (instead of, for instance, using an alpha or beta particle emitting radioisotope).

[SunkenCiv]

• Do Cosmic Ray Changes Regulate Ice Ages? Global Warming Puzzler

Thanks Enchante.

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