Posted on 06/02/2003 12:24:58 PM PDT by Remedy
The Rev. Jerry Falwell, one of President Bush's staunchest supporters in the Christian right, may be shying away from the Commander-in-Chief as the 2004 election fast approaches. The current National Liberty Journal, a Falwell publication, features a story ominously headlined "Christian Leaders Threaten to Abandon GOP in 2004."
Penned by the Journal's editor J.M. Smith, this lead story lambastes the Republican party and its current chairman, Marc Racicot, for getting too cozy with gay groups.
The issue of GOP courting of gay activist groups has been swirling in Washington for months, and became a lighting rod issue for the Christian right and pro-family groups after Republican National Committee Chairman Raicot met privately with members of the Human Rights Campaign, a powerful gay group.
The conservative groups also were angered after the White House and RNC offered only tepid support for Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum, after remarks he made were harshly criticized by gay groups.
The weight given to this issue by Falwell's publication can not be ignored, and indicates how serious this issue may become in Bush's re-election effort. Leading Lights
The Journal quoted such leading lights in the family oriented conservative community as former presidential candidate Gary Bauer and the Family Research Council's Ken Connor, a group founded by Dr. James Dobson.
As NewsMax.com first reported [Christian Right Talks of Bolting GOP in 2004] Connor said, "If Republican leaders cannot mount a vigorous defense of marriage the pro-family voters perhaps should begin to reconsider their loyalty to the party."
In reaction to Racicot's meeting with the Human Right Campaign, a dozen top conservative leaders met with RNC chairman in early May and conveyed their concerns to him. Most came away convinced they had made some headway in convincing Racicot of the danger of massive defections should the GOP cave on such issues as gay marriage. However, as the Journal reports, their hope were dashed when Racicot suggested that religious conservatives are opposed to the gay rights agenda because of fear and ignorance.
The Advocate, a gay magazine, quoted Racicot telling gay activists, "They probably don't know gay people."
Smith responded that Racicot, in so speaking, showed his "own ignorance and willingness to make blind suggestions about people of faith."
The gay magazine also quoted Racicot as saying Christian activists had frightened potential supporters: "People fear to educate them. [They have] their own fear and lots of misinformation and disinformation, which some do for political expediency." 'Tone Deaf'
These insensitive remarks about Mr. Bush's strongest and most dedicated supporters provoked Ken Connor to write "Mr. Racicot appears to be utterly tone deaf - or openly hostile - to the concerns of the GOP's pro-family voters who oppose same-sex marriage, mainstreaming homosexuality in the public schools, allowing gays to serve openly in the military, adopt children, and making homosexual conduct a protected civil right with special legal privileges. We question whether Mr. Racicot has the sensibilities to lead the Bush Campaign."
Adding fuel to the fire, the notoriously left-wing New York Times revealed Saturday that in early May White House officials went out of their way to host 200 members of the Log Cabin Republicans, a 25-year-old gay Republican group. According to the Times, the visit "included a policy briefing with senior administration officials in the Old Executive Office Building," which "symbolized their progress under President Bush."
Noting that "the emergence of gays as a more vocal presence in Republican politics is angering some leaders of conservative groups," the Times reported that White House officials were dismissive of the complaints, arguing that the President Bush is "simply trying to be inclusive and find common ground with gays when he can," a strategy "political analysts say has worked well for Mr. Bush on other issues."
The Times noted conservative concerns and that pro-family groups "have been sending pointed messages to the White House warning that President Bush's re-election is in jeopardy if he continues to court what they call the 'homosexual lobby...'"
"Although Mr. Bush did not attend," the Times reported, "gone are the days when Bob Dole, a Republican candidate for president, refused a campaign contribution from the Log Cabin group."
"In '96, Bob Dole returned a check," Randy Boudreaux, 33, a Log Cabin leader from Louisiana, told the Times reporter who accompanied the group on the bus ride to the White House. "Now we're going to the White House." Bringing People Together
Defending White House approaches to gay groups, Scott McClellan, a White House spokesman told the Times that the president "believes strongly that one of the roles of a leader is to bring people together around shared priorities."
Furthermore, some Republican strategists like Charlie Black think Bush's outreach is a good idea. Black told the Times that Bush "understands the old Reagan rule, which is somebody who supports me 80 percent of the time is my 80 percent friend and not my 20 percent enemy."
The Times recognized the serious political consequences that could flow from current GOP outreach attempts towards gay groups, noting that "the current tension between gays and conservatives" illustrates the risks of that strategy, which puts "the two main tenets of Mr. Bush's brand of Republicanism - the 'big tent' philosophy and the 'family values' agenda - on a collision course, just in time for the 2004 election campaign."
Almost all political pundits agree that in the 2000 election Christian right voters gave Bush his margin of victory in his slim win over Al Gore.
"The first crash, people on both sides say, could be in June, when the Supreme Court is expected to rule on a case involving a Texas law banning sodomy," the Times predicted. "The case is regarded as pivotal for those advocating equal rights for gays, and many legal experts predict that the Supreme Court will overturn the law."
The Times quoted Ken Connor as saying, "Candidate Bush said in the second debate that he felt marriage was a sacred covenant, limited to a man and a woman. That was not a huge issue in 2000. Mark it down. It will be a big, big issue in 2004."
The paper added comments by Free Congress Foundation head Paul Weyrich that should convince the White House of the dangers the president faces as a result of GOP flirting with supporters of the gay agenda.
Speaking of the meeting with Racicot, Weyrich said, "The main message that we delivered was that you are playing with political fire if you are seen to be in any way compromising with the homosexual lobby."
With Falwell's influential National Liberty Journal joining in the fray, the political fire has just gotten hotter.
No, they won't. Check out "Homo News" at the "Army of God" web site. It will kind of remind you of some of the hysterical stuff that gets posted on FR from time to time.
How cowardly and lame.
Here, then... just so you have no more excuses:
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I'll try this again, more slowly:
FACT: There are no current Democratic presidential candidates who are more sympathetic to your position on the "gay agenda" than is GWB. Nothing in any of the articles you've cited, previously, effectively gainsays this. Nothing.
FACT: Any vote for a third party candidate -- who cannot conceivably win Presidential level elected office; certainly not against a sitting President with a 60% approval rating -- serves only to strengthen GWB's opposition, in '04. That means, here in the real world, a Democratic nominee. Nothing in any of the articles you've cited, previously, effectively gainsays this. Nothing.
Both of these are facts. None of your ad hominem insults towards me will alter these from facts into non-facts.
Cut and paste the actual lines from your oft-cited article which actually REFUTE what I've said. (I've read it; there are none.)
If you canNOT do this...
... well, then: that would be interesting and instructive, in and of itself, wouldn't it...?
Your serve, Billie Jean. :)
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There. That was the sound of your last possible excuse, swirling down the drain.
Cite, please.
Amendment VIII: Thomas Jefferson, A Bill for Proportioning Crimes ... Thomas Jefferson, A Bill for Proportioning Crimes and Punishments
Whosoever shall be guilty of Rape, Polygamy, or Sodomy with man or woman shall be punished, if a man, by castration, if a woman, by cutting thro' the cartilage of her nose a hole of one half inch diameter at the least.
APPENDIX 1
State Sodomy Laws in 1791
Connecticut
That if any man shall lie with mankind, as he lieth with womankind, both of them have committed abomination, they both shall be put to death; except it shall appear that one of the parties was forced, or under fifteen years of age; in which case the party forced, or under the age aforesaid, shall not be liable to suffer the said punishment. THE PUBLIC STATUTE LAWS OF THE STATE OF CONNECTICUT, 1808 title LXVI (66), ch. 1, § 2, p. 295. Delaware
That if any person or persons shall commit sodomy, or buggery, or rape or robbery, . . . he or they so offending, or committing any of the said crimes within this government, their counsellors, aiders, comforters and abettors, being convicted thereof, as above-said, shall suffer as felons, according to the tenor, direction, form and effect of the several statutes in such cases respectively made and provided in Great Britain; any act or law of this government to the contrary in any wise not withstanding. LAWS OF THE STATE OF DELAWARE, 1797, ch. 22a, § 5, p. 67 (passed in 1719). Maryland
Maryland had no sodomy statute in 1791, but the Declaration of Rights of Maryland, section 3, a portion of the Maryland State Constitution passed in 1776 said "that the inhabitants of Maryland are entitled to the common law of England. . . ." Sodomy was a crime under the common law (see section on North Carolina). Every person duly convicted of the crime of sodomy, shall be sentenced to undergo a similar confinement for a period not less than one year nor more than ten years, under the same conditions as are herein after directed. MARYLAND LAWS, ch. . CXXXVIII (138), art. IV, § 8. Massachusetts
That if any man shall lay with mankind as he layeth with a woman, or any man or woman shall have carnal copulation with any beast or brute creature, and be thereof duly convicted, the offender, in either of those cases, shall be adjudged guilty of felony, shall be sentenced to suffer the pains of death, and the beast shall be slain, and every part thereof burned. And be it further enacted by the authority aforesaid, that such order and form of process shall be had and used, in trial of such offenders, and such judgment given, and execution done, upon the offender, as in cases of murder. PERPETUAL LAWS OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS, 1780- 1789, p. 187, Act of March 3, 1785. New Hampshire
That if any man shall carnally lie with a man, as a man carnally lieth with a woman, or if any man or woman shall have carnal copulation with any beast, or brute creature, and be thereof convicted, the offender in either of those cases before mentioned, shall suffer death, and the beast shall be slain and burned. LAWS OF NEW HAMPSHIRE, 1805, p. 267 (passed February 8, 1791). New Jersey
That sodomy, or the infamous crime against nature, committed with mankind or beast, shall be adjudged a high crime and misdemeanor, and be punished by fine and solitary imprisonment at hard labour, for any term not exceeding twenty-one years. ACTS OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, March 18, 1796, ch. DC, § 7, p. 93. New York
That the detestable and abominable vice of buggery, committed with mankind, or beast, shall be from henceforth adjudged felony; and such order and form of process therein shall be used against the offenders, as in cases of felony at the common law; and that every person being thereof convicted, by verdict, confession, or outlawry, shall be hanged by the neck, until he or she shall be dead. LAWS OF NEW YORK, ch. . 21, p. 391 (passed February 14, 1787). North Carolina
When the Bill of Rights was ratified in 1791, North Carolina had adopted the English common law statute of Henry VIII which was the basis for the common law's crime of buggery (see section on South Carolina): Forasmuch as there is not yet sufficient and condign punishment appointed and limited by the due course of the Laws of this Realm, for the detestable and abominable vice of Buggery committed with mankind or beast: It may therefore please the King's Highness, with the assent of his Lords spiritual and temporal, and the Commons of this present Parliament assembled . . . That the same offense be from henceforth adjudged Felony . . . And that the offenders being hereof convict . . . shall suffer such pains of death and losses and penalties of their goods, chattels, debts, lands, tenements and hereditaments, as Felons be accustomed to doe [sic] according to the order of the Common-laws of this Realm. And that no person offending in any such offense, shall be admitted to his Clergy, And that Justices of Peace shall have power and authority, within the limits of their Commissions and Jurisdictions, to hear and determine the said offense, as they do use to doe [sic] in cases of other Felonies . . . 25 Henry VIII, ch. 6. Pennsylvania
That the pains and penalties hereinafter mentioned shall be inflicted upon the several offenders who shall from and after the passing of this act commit and be legally convicted of any of the offences hereinafter enumerated and specified, in lieu of the pains and penalties which by law have been heretofore inflicted; that is to say, every person convicted of robbery, burglary, sodomy or buggery or as accessory thereto before the fact shall forfeit to the commonwealth all and singular the lands and tenements, goods and chattels whereof he or she was seized or possessed at the time the crime was committed and at any time afterwards until conviction and be sentenced to undergo a servitude of any term or time at the discretion of the court passing the sentence not exceeding ten years in the public gaol or house of correction of the county or city in which the offence shall have been committed and be kept at such labor and fed and clothed in such manner as is herein after directed. THE STATUTES AT LARGE OF PENNSYLVANIA, 1682-1801, vol. 13, (1682- 1801), p. 511, ch. MDXVI (1516). Rhode Island
That every person who shall be convicted of sodomy, or of being accessary [sic] thereto before the fact, shall, for the first offence [sic], be carried to the gallows in a cart, and set upon said gallows, for a space of time not exceeding four hours, and thence to the common gaol, there to be confined for a term not exceeding three years, and shall be grieviously fined at the direction of the Court; and for the second offence [sic] shall suffer death. THE PUBLIC LAWS OF THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND AND PROVIDENCE PLANTATIONS , 1798, § 8, p. 586, "An Act to Reform the Penal Laws."
South Carolina
Forasmuch as there is not yet sufficient and condign [sic] Punishment appointed and limited by the due Course of the A-6 Laws of this Realm, for the detestable and abominable Vice of Buggery committed with the Mankind or Beast: (2) It may therefore be enacted, That the same offence be from henceforth adjudged felony, and such Order and Form of Process therein to be used against the Offenders as in Cases of Felony at the Common Law; (3) and that the Offenders being hereof convict [sic] by Verdict, Confession, or Outlawry, shall suffer such Pains of Death, and Losses and Penalties of the Goods, Chattels, Debts, Lands, Tenements and Hereditaments, as Felons be accustomed to do, according to the Order of the Common Laws of this Realm; (4) and that no Person offending in any such Offence, shall be admitted to his Clergy; (5) and that Justices of Peace shall have Power and Authority, within the Limits of their Commissions and Jurisdictions, to hear and determine the said Offence, as they do use to do in Case of other Felonies. PUBLIC LAWS OF THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA, 1790, p. 49.
The English common law statute banning sodomy issued by Henry VIII reads:
Where in the Parliament begun at London the 3d Day of November in the 21st Years of the late King of most famous Memory, King Henry the Eighth, and after by Prorogation holden at Westminster in the 25th Year of the Reign of said late King, there was one Act and Statute made, entitled, An Act for the Punishment of the Vice of Buggery, whereby the said detestable Vice was made Felony, as in the said Estatute [sic] more and large it doth and may appear: (2) Forasmuch as the said Statute concerning the Punishment of the said Crime and Offence of Buggery standeth at this present repealed and void by Virtue of the Statute of Repeal made in the 1st Year of the Reign of the late Queen Mary: Sithence which Repeal so had A-7 and made divers evil disposed Persons have been the more bold to commit the said most horrible and detestable Vice of Buggery aforesaid, to the high Displeasure of Almighty God. II. Be it enacted, That the said Statute before mentioned, made in the 25th Year of the said late King Henry the 8th, for the Punishment of the said detestable Vice of Buggery, and every Branch, Clause, Article and Sentence therein contained, shall from and after the 1st Day of June next coming be revived, and from thenceforce shall stand, remain, and be in full Force, Strength and Effect for every, in such Manner, Form and Condition, as the same Statue was at the Day of the Death of the said late King Henry the Eighth, the said Statute of Repeal made in the said 1st Year of the said late Queen Mary or any Words general or special therein contained, or any other Act or Acts, Thing or Things, to the contrary notwithstanding.
PUBLIC LAWS OF THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA, 1790, p. 65. Virginia
Before 1792, Virginia relied on the English common law which made sodomy a punishable crime (see HENNINGS STATUTES OF VIRGINIA, vol. 9, 1775-1778, ch. V, § VI, p. 127). Virginia passed a specific sodomy ban in 1792:
That if any do commit the detestable and abominable vice of buggery, with man or beast, he or she so offending, shall be adjudged a felon, and shall suffer death, as in case of felony, without the benefit of clergy. VIRGINIA STATUTES AT LARGE, 1835, p. 113 .
Such STUPIDITY by some Republicans
e-mail that to BUSH!
Let me post Jefferson's words once again, try having someone read them to you if need be.
"..."...our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry; that therefore the proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument, unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion, is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages to which, in common with his fellow citizens, he has a natural right." --- Thomas Jefferson
I don't know if homosexuality is biological/experiential or a combination of both. I do know that not too many of these folks feel you loving the sinner and not the sin.
You folks are filled with so much anger inside. Where is the love? Where is the example of a joyful life in marriage and in fellowship that those who have strayed will want to emulate.
Frothing at the mouth is not a way to convert. It might make you feel self righteous about the law, but then so were the pharisees.
I don't know if homosexuality is biological/experiential or a combination of both.
SODOMY : Ex-Gay Lobbyists Visit Capitol Hill
The Summer of Our Discontent: The Church Fights Back in the Culture War on Homosexuality." <> Transforming Congregations is a network of uniting ("mainline") churches in the USA and Australia whose mission is to "provide information, resources and training in understanding and involvement in transforming ministry toward homosexuals, and to encourage transforming ministry based on loving compassion, scripture, and The Discipline of the United Methodist Church." Courage is a network of Roman Catholics whose mission is to "provide spiritual support for men and women striving to live chaste lives in accordance with the Catholic Church's pastoral teaching on homosexuality." Write to Courage, c/oChurch of St John the Baptist, 210 W 31st Street, New York, NY 10001. The phone number is (212) 268-1010. There are chapters in many major cities, including New York, Philadelphia, Harrisburg, and Chicago. One By One is a fellowship of Presbyterian (USA) churches whose mission is to "educate and equip the Church to minister the transforming grace and power of the Lord Jesus Christ to those who are in conflict with their sexuality." PFOX - welcome! No one is born gay. All scientific studies, including those by gay scientists, have not found any gay gene or gay brain center.
St. Paul's Argument From Nature Against Homosexuality (Romans 1).
Responding to Pro-Gay Theology
CCCU : Resource Center | Article: An Evangelical Looks at ... : From the Wesleyan Quadrilateral to a Postmodern Tetralectic, Christian Scholar's Review, Gary Strauss
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