Protestantism, Modernism, Atheism

Crisis Magazine ^ | November 28, 2017 | Julia Meloni

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Been asked for many times over the years and have not got an answer nor how they are sure the traditions were actually taught by the apostles and have been passed down faithfully through all these centuries.

Absolutely true.

Roman Catholicism is built on assumptions that have no historical basis. This is one more.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Look up the Apostles Creed.

Created in 390 BC - long after the death of the Apostles.

[ealgeone]

And St. Paul makes it clear how the forgiveness of sins comes - including in his own life as he must have told Luke - through baptism. Acts 22:16

The Greek indicates Paul had called on His name before being baptized.

and now why delay you? having arisen, be baptized and wash away the sins of you, having called on the name of Him.

The Greek verb, ἐπικαλεσάμενος,(ἐπικαλέω meaning to call upon, appeal to, address. Only used twice in the NT. Here and 1 Corinthians 6:11) is a participle (verbal). It is: aorist tense, participle, middle voice.

The aorist participle in NT Greek is normally, though by no means always, antecdent in time to the action of the main verb. But when the aorist participle is related to an aorist main verb, the participle will often be contemporaneous (or simultaneous) to the action of the main verb.(Wallace,Greek Grammer: Beyond the Basics p.624).

I offer these translations of this verse for discussion.

'Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.' NASB

And now why tarriest thou? Rise up, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, invoking his name. Douay-Rheims

And now, why delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins by calling on His name.'" Holman Christian Standard Bible

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. KJV

[ealgeone]

[14] Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Thessalonians; Chapter 2.

Context...ebb...context. Read all of 2 Thess to understand what he's talking about.

[ealgeone]

It was Luther who threw out entire books of the Bible that weren’t to his liking.

Easily proven to be a false statement. He did not throw out complete books of the Bible.

[ebb tide]

Created in 390 BC - long after the death of the Apostles.

That's news to me. I thought the Apostles didn't die until after Christ's Death.

How could they "create" a creed predicting something 390 years into the future?

[ealgeone]

And to that list...hope you don't commit a mortal sin or you've lost your salvation.

I've never understood if Roman Catholics believe baptism saves you...why you don't have to be baptized again after you commit a mortal sin?

[ealgeone]

AMPU>>Until you can prove that any tradition came from the Apostles, we don't even know which century it began.<<

ebb: What an absurd statement. You might as well be a Muslim.

And you might as well be a Mormon by adding to revealed Scripture. They have the Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price and Roman Catholicism has "Tradition".

[boatbums]

It was Luther who threw out entire books of the Bible that weren’t to his liking. Not I. Luther was the first cherry-picker.

No, he didn't/wasn't. Now wasn't someone just talking upthread about posting irrefutable facts that are continually ignored??? What's wrong, Ebb, run out of bullets and this is your last go-to "I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I" card?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“How could they "create" a creed predicting something 390 years into the future?

😂

[ebb tide]

Easily proven to be a false statement. He did not throw out complete books of the Bible.

The 7 books removed by Martin Luther.

[boatbums]

You, know, for some of them I think just BEING on the hamster wheel is what they count on to save them.

[ealgeone]

The only creed we have to believe is this:

24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 5:24 NASB

[Zuriel]

There were about 120 in the upper on Pentecost. At that time they chose Matthias to fill Judas’ spot. Matthias had been a disciple from the beginning of Lord’s ministry, just not one of the twelve. Remember when the Lord send out 70 disciples, giving them miraculous power? Matthias may have been one of those. Anyway, the apostles had plenty of help to baptize 3000 souls. I guarantee that they didn’t sprinkle either.

[vladimir998]

“To invoke one of Vlad’s Rules.....the text does not say that Peter and the Apostles baptized them.”

You think the Jews baptized them? Gee, was it the Roman soldiers? Seriously, you embarrass yourself. Acts 2:41 makes it clear the people did not baptize themselves. Peter may have given orders for the 3,000 to be baptized, but it was Peter himself who said “be baptized” in verse 38. Peter and the Apostles, therefore, baptized them. I realize you might be desperate for some sort hollow victory since you repeatedly fail here but come on, what you’re saying is laughable.

I didn’t have to be corrected on anything since there was no error. Whether Peter did the baptizing himself or gave orders he still called for it and it was done under his authority. Do you realize you’re making a pro-papal argument? If you’re saying Peter didn’t do any baptizing but only gave orders for it (and that would be bolstered by Acts 10:48), then that means Peter was acting just like Jesus in the same situation. Jesus ordered the Apostles to baptize. He apparently didn’t do it himself.

In any case you prove the Church is right. Ah, the glories of anti-Catholic failure.

[vladimir998]

“Yup, they do. The Catholic church does.”

Nope.

“They tell us that you have to be baptized to be saved.”

Jesus says that - as does Peter. And its Jesus’ work not ours.

[boatbums]

Easily proven to be a false statement. He did not throw out complete books of the Bible.

The 7 books removed by Martin Luther.

Read your OWN link, Ebb. Even it never says Luther removed 7 books of the Bible! Placing them in a section (like Jerome and others did long before him) is not "removing" them. In fact, Luther translated them into German in his Bible. Here's a link that would help educate you on the topic http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/p/luther-and-canon-of-scripture.html.

[ebb tide]

And to that list...hope you don't commit a mortal sin or you've lost your salvation.

Au contraire. That's where the Holy Sacrament of Confession comes in as per your "scripture". See John 20:

[22] When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. [23] Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

It's both a shame and a detriment that y'all reject this sacrament.

[ealgeone]

You think the Jews baptized them? Gee, was it the Roman soldiers? Seriously, you embarrass yourself. Acts 2:41 makes it clear the people did not baptize themselves. Peter may have given orders for the 3,000 to be baptized, but it was Peter himself who said “be baptized” in verse 38. Peter and the Apostles, therefore, baptized them. I realize you might be desperate for some sort hollow victory since you repeatedly fail here but come on, what you’re saying is laughable.

Vlad's Rule #5...omit what others have posted or twist it in an attempt to show them wrong.

But I digress. I do believe Peter and the disciples did baptized them and maybe with some help from the other believers. Who else was there to baptize them? 124 posted on 11/28/2017, 9:53:57 PM by ealgeone [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 121 | View Replies | Report Abuse]

I didn’t have to be corrected on anything since there was no error.

In your post of 107 you said, "And yet he [Peter] then baptized them." Then in 121 you said, "On Pentecost Peter and the Apostles baptized 3,000 people. In one day. Have you forgotten that?"

Vlad's Rules of Internet Debate #6. He will ignore his errors when pointed out to him and dismiss them...even when confronted with them.

And also Vlad's Rules of Internet Debate #3....it means what he wants it to mean.

Whether Peter did the baptizing himself or gave orders he still called for it and it was done under his authority. Do you realize you’re making a pro-papal argument?

You mean like James at the Council?

19“Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, 20but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. 21“For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.” Acts 15:19-21 NASB

Or Paul?

I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 1 Cor 1:14 NASB

[ealgeone]

I agree....they dunked them! You know what that means...they’re Baptists! The only denomination mentioned in the NT! :)...just like John the Baptist!