Will Third Parties Run to Victory?

Insight Magazine ^ | May 13, 2002 | Sam MacDonald

[11th Earl of Mar]

Brady and Jackson have more influence in Washington than Buchanan does.

Since you can't name one conservative who owes their election to Pat Buchanan, and you can't name one piece of conservative legislation that was passed because of Pat Buchanan, maybe now you know why conservatives don't like him and don't need him.

[galt-jw]

What an aquamaroon

Put down the bong

. I find that people who expect immediate and radical change are usually immature, unrealistic, idealistic self-deluders

What a scintillating response.
i find that people who resort to personal attacks are, either liberals, or immature, unrealistic, idealistic self deluders.

[rdb3]

Vote your conscience, if you will, but don't be surprised when Democrats end up making laws that govern your existence...

B2K, that's the point I continually make to them. If the Left has control of the White House and keeps the Senate due to our voters staying home, they'd best not open their mouths when Leftist extremists are seated for the Supreme Court.

[cva66snipe]

I would say within the next 10-15 years yes it will happen UNLESS the GOP starts swinging back right and in the very near future. That was not the case this past POTUS election nor is Washington trying to steer that direction this election far from it looks to me. The GOP in it's lack of wisdom continues to reward those who refuse to lead with leadership positions. No bigger example in the sad state of just how bad off the GOP is than Trent and the clueless Lott who keep him as the senate party leader. He is a disgrace.

When two POTUS candidates one supposedly trying to impersonate a conservative says there is not that much difference between his and an Arch Liberal POTUS Candidates position then the GOP needs to re-think it's positions. Like many others I don't consider myself as having left the GOP I consider it has left me and any shred of Constitutional Doctrine behind.

The GOP's current take this or else attitude is wearing thin. GWB was crowned winner before most states even held a primary. Afterward all Conservative voices were silenced and Rocky Republicans took over the White House and most Cabinet positions.

Ronnie Reagan {no he wasn't perfect by any means} knew better than try this but Bush is no Reagan not by a long shot. Reagan understood he had to work with Conservatives and give them advisory positions. He as well actually bothered to listen!

I see an answer to the primary election problem. On the POTUS election alone make a national primary day the First Tuesday in August. Stop this insane nonsense of the Rocky GOP force feeding the rest of the nation it's Liberalism. I will not vote for a Rocky GOP and yes it's fine with me if a Dem wins instead. Then maybe at least a conservative might get a shot at the seat next election rather than a Rocky Liberal holding it for life.

The GOP after the 1994 wins stopped trying to change the Liberal trend in this nation and instead became a part of it. That is the fualt of GOP leadership and not Bill Clinton. Those injuries were self inflicted. Anyone taking an honest look can see as much. The GOP has dumped the Conservative and what Constitutional values it had to appease the Rocky GOP and some DEMs. When the best the GOP can do for a POTUS candidate is Bob Dole that says it all. That year the GOP sold it's soul.

If the GOP wants to stop the third party factor then it best start taking it's agenda into consideration otherwise stop crying foul each time it runs off persons who are just sick and tired of seeing the GOP self destruct itself and helping the DEM's Liberalize this nation.

But perhaps saddest of all was this past election offered some of the greatest tallent in the GOP in a century. It is clear to me there was a deliberate effort to silence the Conservative GOP this election and in this election as well. Only the inside friends or inner circle of Moderate/Liberal Republicans are getting the jobs and support since Bush took office. They are the ones making policy and their policies stink. Again this was not something Reagan would have done and I find comparisons of Bush to Reagan empty. There is no substance but just wishfull thinking and the undying desire for a legacy. Bush and the GOP needs to start reaching out to conservatives as much as they are the others. Here is a man who tells conservatives to buzz off then goes running to the Log Cabin Republicans. It was a deliberate snub IMO. A snub that continues to this day. If the GOP doen't change it has no one to blame but its leaders for it's coming downfall.

[rdb3]

Put down the bong. You don't get everything you want overnight. It takes time and it takes some accomodation. That's the nature of politics. I find that people who expect immediate and radical change are usually immature, unrealistic, idealistic self-deluders...

Hey, dude! Shhhh! Don't you know talking rationally and speaking sense doesn't work with some?

[rdb3]

Don't forget to push for Sharpton, too! ;-)

[BlackbirdSST]

Don't try to blame the policies of individual members of Congress on the entire party. Why not? They are mutually inclusive, you can't have policy proceed without that being a hard cold fact. Will you find a member or two who'll throw out token oppositon? Of course you will. They are fighting a losing battle, ask them, I have. Then to top it off, we have a president who'll sign any trash they send across his desk. Show me one item he has so much as threatened to veto. Just one item. While the house isn't veto proof, show me one piece of legislation they've taken a stand on,(they do provide funding you know) and I'll show you many more they have shown absolute copitulation. Show me one fedguv agency that's had it's budget cut. Furthermore, this grand strategy you bots expouse is behind the full force march to socialism truely escapes me. Perhaps I can be enlightened by someone, not likely, but perhaps. You can argue Ideals, you can't argue Facts. I don't care how you shape or color these actions, they are not Conservative. Blackbird.

[cva66snipe]

Put down the bong. You don't get everything you want overnight. It takes time and it takes some accomodation. That's the nature of politics. I find that people who expect immediate and radical change are usually immature, unrealistic, idealistic self-deluders...

Listen if the GOP can crash and burn {change} as quick as it did from 1994-1996 then it is not unreasonable to expect a reversal that fast as well. Accomodation sent the GOP to the problems it's in now. They forgot they were in power because of their agenda they ran on and not because it was their turn. They sold out their own agenda that put them in power. That is what cost them the senate and nearly the White House last election. They refuse to be Republicans but instead try to be some luke warm Dem variation.

[rdb3]

Listen if the GOP can crash and burn {change} as quick as it did from 1994-1996 then it is not unreasonable to expect a reversal that fast as well. Accomodation sent the GOP to the problems it's in now. They forgot they were in power because of their agenda they ran on and not because it was their turn. They sold out their own agenda that put them in power. That is what cost them the senate and nearly the White House last election. They refuse to be Republicans but instead try to be some luke warm Dem variation.

I understand what you are saying, but I disagree on the "whys." The GOP's problem is that it doesn't understand how to play the political game. But the GOP isn't alone here. Just reading the thoughts of 99.9% of FReeper opinions, they don't understand how to play the political game, either.

[BlackbirdSST]

Yep, but you're equally dead nonetheless. Arlington is full of people who do not share your thoughts on this. I only hope to measure up to them by the time I die. I'll prefer to meet my demise standing, with knowledge I didn't lick any jackboots (no matter who was wearing them) along the way. It's called Sacred Honor, an Ideal I'm willing to die for. I prefer Liberty. That Ideal is a fleeting glimpse in either of the two party's. Blackbird.

[dcwusmc]

What a marvelous piece of writing. Thanks for your logic and for this well-thought-out post!

[rdb3]

Arlington is full of people who do not share your thoughts on this.

I agree. Dead folks don't have any thoughts and can't share. I may honor what our soldiers died for, but I will in no way engage in "hero-worship." Only Christ has the right to my worship. That's it.

But in the here and now, unless we have to engage in violence, let's learn some pragmatism (poeticism aside).

[ex-snook]

", and you can't name one piece of conservative legislation that was passed because of Pat Buchanan"

You didn't name one piece of conservative legislation that was passed by Bush either.

The three things you mentioned were Buchanan's ideas long before Bush did anything about them.

[Twodees]

Wait a minute, Doc. The glue huffing deal is my line. It's a patented Twodeesism. ;-)

Yes, in some ways, Bush is better than Gore could be. In other ways, he's indistinguishable, though. The education bill, CFR, and the Patriot act are all things that I would have expected out of Gore. The pandering to illegals is another. The "Homeland Security" position is something that only a democrat could have dreamed up before Bush came along.

As far as getting candidates on the ballot for Congress goes, the GOP is a lost cause. Their state organizations are rotten to the core and absolutely subservient to the national committee. People like Rudy Guiliani and Liddy Dole are going to be as good as the GOP gets from now on, mark my words. Watch for them to spike the guns of their few good conservative incumbents in the upcoming races, too.

[rdb3]

I understand your angst, but I'm not nearly as pessimistic. And, believe it or not, this is coming from someone who is not a Republican.

[cva66snipe]

I understand what you are saying, but I disagree on the "whys." The GOP's problem is that it doesn't understand how to play the political game. But the GOP isn't alone here. Just reading the thoughts of 99.9% of FReeper opinions, they don't understand how to play the political game, either

Well I by no means like Al Gore. But I'll say this. If not for Bill Clinton he would be POTUS today. Gore inspite of how we feel about him is a master politican. He learned from the best his dad. Gore nearly won because the GOP was running on me too politics. Rather than make known the differences they chose to lean toward Gores policies or Gore Lite. Gore is a master at "Me Too" politics. The line between a GOP and DEM canidate is becoming too thin these days. It's not good for the nation either. One of the best checks and balances is not to have both parties so close in agreement on most issues. Pick a fight state your objectives and stick with them.

It seems everytime compromise is mentioned it most all the time means the GOP caves to the DEMs. Don't walk up even before debating an issue and give up the fight. The DEM's are eating the GOP alive on this very thing.

I want some good old fashioned mean spirited conservative leaders back in the senate and not the compromising idiots like Lott, Hatch, Spectre, and their likes. Nor do I want to see the same being endorsed for the vaccanies coming up. The White House came out swinging with a moderate senator canidates when aviable conservative were there. The moderates are part of the inner circle I mentioned in my other post. That is foolishness and giving up the fight before it can be fought. Actually I think the White House and RNC needs to stay out of primary elections as far as endorsements go.

[drstevej]

See how much clearer things become when you breathe air?

In your frustration with Bush keep both hands firmly gripped on reality. Rumsfeld kicking tush in Afghanistan is better than Cohen bombing Asprin factories or heaven forbid a Gore appointed secretary of defense studying the impact of daisy cutters on global warming.

[Uncle Bill]

Why Democrats should draft George W. Bush in 2004

The surest way to bust this economy is to increase the role and the size of the federal government."
George W. Bush - Source: Presidential debate, Boston MA Oct 3, 2000.

Gore offers an old and tired approach. He offers a new federal spending program to nearly every voting bloc. He expands entitlements, without reforms to sustain them. 285 new or expanded programs, and $2 trillion more in new spending. Spending without discipline, spending without priorities, and spending without an end. Al Gore’s massive spending would mean slower growth and higher taxes. And it could mean an end to this nation’s prosperity."
George W. Bush Source: Speech in Minneapolis, Minnesota Nov 1, 2000.

"People need more money in their pocket, as far as I’m concerned."
George W. Bush - The Tampa (FL) Tribune Oct 26, 2000.

"I think the economy has grown really in spite of government. This is an incredible period of time when productivity has been enhanced, not because of any great initiative of government, but because of the ability for entrepreneurs to stake a new claim."
George W. Bush - Source: Ronald Brownstein, LA Times Aug 13, 2000

I was deeply concerned about the drift toward a more powerful federal government. I was particularly outraged by two pieces of legislation, the Natural Gas Policy Act and the Fuel Use Act. It seemed to me that elite central planners were determining the course of our nation. Allowing the government to dictate the price of natural gas was a move toward European-style socialism. If the federal government was going to take over the natural gas business, what would it set its sights on next?"
George W. Bush - Source: “A Charge to Keep”, p.172-173 Dec 9, 1999

Un El día En El la vida de Jorge W. La arbusto

"Immigration is not a problem to be solved, it is the sign of a successful nation."
George W. Bush - Source: Speech in Washington, D.C. Jun 26, 2000.

"In September of last year, I welcomed my good friend, the President of Mexico, to the White House. Standing together on the South Lawn, President Fox and I spoke of building a hemisphere of freedom and prosperity and progress."

Foolin' them is easy isn't it? Heck yes.

A UNICEF-funded book being passed out at the United Nations Child Summit encourages children to engage in sexual activities with other minors and with homosexuals and animals

Clinton raped Juanita Broaddrick, not once, but twice

"That’s why I’m for instant background checks at gun shows. I’m for trigger locks."
George W. Bush - Source: St. Louis debate Oct 17, 2000

[Bush2000]

While the house isn't veto proof, show me one piece of legislation they've taken a stand on,(they do provide funding you know)

Infant fetal tissue research, cloning, overseas abortion funding, etc.

[BlackbirdSST]

Infant fetal tissue research, cloning, overseas abortion funding, etc. One might argue that anything you've listed here can creep in as an issue at any given moment. None of this has been wiped off the slate. One could even argue, if the statist on both sides of the aisle see an opportunity, they will take this stuff into the midnight hour, where they think you ain't watching, and do as they damn well please, ala NAFTA/GATT and a myriad of other sweet little "conservative" issues, and I (my feabile little self) can predict without fear, POTUS would sign every bit into Law. You know why they think they can do it and get away with it? Because they can! The bots will still pull that lever on election day, afterall, the programming has been good and long in the making. Which lever? It doesn't matter! Only a few will be for the third choice, from those of us who refuse indoctrination. Vote your concience, we get the gubmint we deserve. Blackbird.