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Fortuyn favoured depraved
Scotsman ^

Posted on 05/16/2002 11:21:38 AM PDT by VinnyTex

Scotland on Sunday   
Sun 12 May 2002

Fortuyn favoured depraved

MARCELLO MEGA AND JUSTIN SPARKS

PIM Fortuyn, the charismatic right-wing Dutch politician murdered last week was a powerful advocate or
paedophilia, Scotland on Sunday can reveal.

His controversial views on race, immigration, liberalisation of drug laws and his open homosexuality were well-known. But his approval of paedophilia, while not a secret, was ignored by Dutch journalists covering his election campaign.

Fortuyn stood to gain up to 20% of the vote in Wednesday's election and his list is expected to gain thousands of extra votes.

Ireen Van Engelen, an anti-paedophile campaigner in Holland, said: "I have been writing to journalists around the country for months as Fortuyn's popularity grew. I was asking them to challenge him on his views about paedophilia. But none of them dared. I also wrote to ministers, but none of them were interested. It's a disgrace.

"It is strange that they could criticise him, quite rightly, for being racist, but were unwilling to raise this other matter. I can't say for sure that he was a paedophile himself, but he was certainly an advocate for adult-child sex."

Van Engelen cites a column Fortuyn wrote for the Dutch current affairs magazine, Elsevier, in 1999. It was so on-message for pro-paedophile campaigners that it was reproduced by Koinos, a magazine for homosexual paedophiles.

In his article, Fortuyn wrote: "Paedophilia is just like hetero and homosexuality. It is something that is in the genes. There is little if anything that you can do about it or against it. You are who you are? sooner or later the proclivity makes its irresistible appearance. It is not any more curable than hetero or homosexuality."

The column concludes: "The law philosopher and paedophile [Edward] Brongersma, for years senator of the Labour party, spent his life campaigning for understanding of the paedophile fellow man. He launched this effort fearlessly after serving a sentence for sexual harassment of a minor. The minor in question had not considered it harassment, but the justice department judged otherwise in the 1950s.

"In the 1970s and 1980s, Brongersma slowly but surely gained ground. After the invention of the Pill came sexual liberation. Gay sex became accepted, and why then should paedo sex not be allowed ? under the strict condition that the child is willing and that there is no coercion? This enlightened point of view has meanwhile been abandoned, and under the influence of the ologists, the child is defined as totally
devoid of sexual desires, at least where adults are concerned.

"We are far removed from the understanding that Brongersma tried to foster, to our own detriment, for that matter. For everything which can be discussed is in principle also manageable, one would think!"

In the last week, Fortuyn has been lionised in the Dutch media. Thousands of mourners have paid their respects and many more have promised to vote for the list of candidates that still bears his name. In their sense of shock many in Holland have lost sight of Fortuyn's controversial ideas and instead focused on his image as a colourful and entertaining maverick.

"The killing has produced a sort of Dutch 'Diana' effect," said Fred Spier, a social anthropologist at Amsterdam University. "Tens of thousands of people who previously had no sympathy for Mr Fortuyn have joined his supporters all across the country in a mass outpouring of grief. He has turned from the bad man of right-wing politics into a fallen national hero overnight.''

Not only has Fortuyn's death won the sympathy of voters, but it has also served to discredit the mainstream parties, which are being accused of having whipped up a national hate campaign against Fortuyn by 'wrongly' portraying him as a right-wing extremist.

In 1998, Fortuyn published an autobiographical work called Babyboomers, the name given to children born in the post-war years up to 1953. He reveals that he had early sexual experiences with adult males, which he claims to have found pleasurable and exciting. His logic is that because he enjoyed sexual experiences with adult men as a child, it should be legal.

Fortuyn's first experience occurred when he was five years old. "The Dutch soldier asks if I want to see his tent. That's what I want. I like it and they all are sleeping on the ground in a sleeping-bag. I ask if it is hard and cold to sleep on the ground. Oh no, come here. Together we crawl in his sleeping-bag. The soldier asks my name and I ask his name.

?He is called Arie and he asks if I like that name. Yes, I think that's a nice name and I lie beside him, nice and warm."

Fortuyn then described a close sexual encounter with the soldier before leaving his sleeping-bag "to go and play outside." He added: "Can I come back tomorrow? Yes, tomorrow I may come back, says Arie."

A few pages later, he describes another incident: "I went to the park for a walk, it was very silent and the sun was shining. On the bench sat a young fellow. I stood still, curious."

Fortuyn relates another sexual encounter - this time in explicit detail. He concludes: "I was frightened and ran away to my home, to my mother. Excited, I ran into the room. My mother looked at me searchingly and asked what had happened. Nothing, of course. Watch out, little man, was the only thing she said. A glass of lemonade made me calm down. Yes, that was exciting."

Most telling is his appraisal of these memories. "In chapter 1 about the 1950s, I wrote about my early sexual experiences, experiences that I see as an enrichment. Today, an experience like that in the ppark could easily lead to a complaint by parents to the police because of paedophilia, and the relevant young man would be in trouble. But why?

"He didn't do me any harm. On the contrary, he showed me something that was incomprehensibly exciting and I could feel and touch it, but today we are ready to interfere with complete teams of professionals. By interfering in such an irritating and grown-up way in the world of children, we make an
enormous problem of something that for a child is no problem at all and is only exciting."

Van Engelen said: "The problem with Pim Fortuyn was that he never grew up. In his mind he stayed a little boy. A lot of Dutch men recognised that. That's what made him so popular, among other things. It's a pity that we no longer have the opportunity to challenge him about these views. He did not seem willing to recognise that a child will be harmed by sex with an adult."


This article:

   http://www.news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?id=513942002

More Far Right in Europe:

   http://www.news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=223

Websites:

  Front National
   http://www.front-national.com/

  L'Humanité (newspaper)
   http://www.humanite.presse.fr/journal/

  Le Figaro (newspaper)
   http://www.lefigaro.fr/

  Le Monde (newspaper)
   http://www.lemonde.fr/

  Parti Communiste Français
   http://www.pcf.fr/

  Parti Socialiste
   http://www.parti-socialiste.fr/

  RPR - Rassemblement pour la République
   http://www.rpr.asso.fr/

  UDF - Union pour la Démocratie Française
   http://www.udf.org/


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: europelist
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first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 161-173 next last
To: xm177e2
...was a powerful advocate of paedophilia"

Fortuyn was evil...

Not that his homosexuality had anything to do with that, of course.

And Islam is a religion of peace.

Heck, just the fact that he was Dutch made him suspect in my book, the rest was just proof.

41 posted on 05/16/2002 5:49:23 PM PDT by FormerLib
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To: xm177e2
Take me off your ping list.

If this is true, why didn't Fortuyn's enemies, who demonized him in every other way, use the pediophilia charge before his murder? They called him every other name in the book.

42 posted on 05/16/2002 5:50:06 PM PDT by xJones
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To: xm177e2
Please remove my name from your ping list.
43 posted on 05/16/2002 5:53:15 PM PDT by Carolinamom
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To: xm177e2
Screwing with kids is wrong. Screwing with their minds is almost as bad. Kids look up to adults for many things- not the least of which is protection. A buddy of mine once dragged a guy out of his pickup and beat the crap out of him over the way he was hitting his kid in a parking lot. It happened so fast, his brother (who had gone to the store with him) had to finish parking their car. You had to know Danny.
44 posted on 05/16/2002 5:55:10 PM PDT by budwiesest
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To: summer
Summer, he was gay, no secret. The story about him and
pedophilia is a smear is what I have been told........
45 posted on 05/16/2002 5:55:43 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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To: MeeknMing
Well, in all honesty, I am not up on his personal life. Thank you for the info. :)
46 posted on 05/16/2002 6:00:10 PM PDT by summer
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To: xm177e2
I think that the story regarding Fortuyn and Pedophilia was
a smear story that is NOT substantiated, actually.......
47 posted on 05/16/2002 6:01:14 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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To: Slim Pickens; VinnyTex
He also worshipped Satan and barbecued baby harp seals. Just like everyone else who opposes mass federalized immigration.
48 posted on 05/16/2002 6:01:45 PM PDT by SteamshipTime
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To: summer


49 posted on 05/16/2002 6:02:07 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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To: MeeknMing
:)
50 posted on 05/16/2002 6:03:10 PM PDT by summer
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To: Eva
It's very strange they would keep calling him a right winger, he obviously is not conservative.
51 posted on 05/16/2002 6:06:10 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: summer

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52 posted on 05/16/2002 6:06:19 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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To: xm177e2
This does not really surprise me. Actually, based on what I had heard about the man before reading this, I would say it is pretty much part of the same parcel.

My concern, though, is not with Fortuyn as political martyr, but rather that by calling someone a "right-wing extremist" you can give his murder a pass. The fact that Fortuyn was as far left as he was and the tactic still worked shows how effective it is.

Fortuyn is the canary in the coal mine of representative government. When the canary dies, it still sends a warning, whether the canary is homosexual or heterosexual, or straight or warped. He was not killed because he was a pedeophile -- he was killed because he would not support a wacko enviro-fascism. The press is O.K. with that, and that is scary.

53 posted on 05/16/2002 6:08:56 PM PDT by No Truce With Kings
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To: MeeknMing
The story about him and pedophilia is a smear is what I have been told...

How can it be a smear? The quotes above are pretty unequivocal. Are you saying they've been created out of whole cloth?

54 posted on 05/16/2002 6:10:28 PM PDT by beckett
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To: xm177e2
Thanks for the ping.
55 posted on 05/16/2002 6:11:20 PM PDT by Chad Bagwell
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To: Eva
"Right wing socialist" is a strange label for a guy whose hero on economic matters was Margaret Thatcher.

Fortuyn was certainly not my kind of person or politician. But what Fortuyn was personally, and what he represented politically are distinguishable. For example, is pedophilia an issue in the program of the List Pim Fortuyn? Did people vote for him because he supported pedophilia?

As a political phenomenon, Fortuyn represented the wake-up of a very permissive society to the fact that multiculturalism is not compatible with any version of western freedom, not just the extreme version of the Dutch. Western freedom, even if it is based on universal truth, is only honored in cultures which have cultivated the art of seeing and respecting such truth. Western freedom has many healthy and unhealthy versions, but there are some cultures which are incompatible with all of them. We have to choose between allowing such cultures to take root in our midst and continuing the tradition of western freedom. That is the important point Fortuyn saw and seems to have communicated to a lot of Dutchmen.

This is a very important move, because only the Left can end multiculturalism - if the Right had the power it would have ended long ago! It wouldn't end the cultural battle between Left and Right, but it would put the battle on healthier ground, if there was a consensus that no version of freedom is safe without an intentionally nurtured culture that respects freedom.

56 posted on 05/16/2002 6:16:25 PM PDT by Southern Federalist
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To: fporretto
just as the charisma of a leader doesn't confer any virtue on the ideas he promotes, the failings of a leader are irrelevant to the merits of those ideas as well

I think this is about the only sensible comment on this thread. If this story is true, it is now of interest only to Fortuyn and God, since Fortuyn is no longer involved in activities on this earth. If it could be shown that his fellow party members also promoted this idea, or that there is some necessary connection between this idea and the ideas of his party, that would be of interest, but there is no evidence of this.

The fact that an evil person supported a cause is not evidence of a problem with that cause. Benedict Arnold supported the American Revolution, but I do not think that this is an argument against the righteousness of that Revolution.

57 posted on 05/16/2002 6:28:41 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
These are what I call "but" conservatives. "I'm a conservative but..."(x,y,z exception). Of course, in his case, he was also a "butt" conservative.

Yeah, well, generally i'd agree with you, but in my state of Arizona, my rep is Kolbe, one of the Log Cabin Republicans. He's pro-gun, anti-illegals, and gets at least 50% on the conservative voter indexes. At election time, if i have to choose between some Barbara Boxer-type idiot leftist freak, and Jim Kolbe, I'll be voting for Kolbe.

58 posted on 05/16/2002 6:29:38 PM PDT by FlyVet
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Re your post #52 and all future posts to me - Please remove me from your ping list. Thanks.
59 posted on 05/16/2002 6:34:04 PM PDT by summer
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To: summer
I don't have a *ping* list!
60 posted on 05/16/2002 6:36:51 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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