The Moscow Nuclear Arms Reduction Treaty Arms Control at its Worst

The American Partisan ^ | May 24, 2002 | David T. Pyne

[rightwing2]

So the Russkies get to keep their MIRV'd ten-warhead SS-18 Satan and SS-25s under this historic treaty, huh? No wonder, the Bushies and the Russkies were unable to agree on a title for this treaty since the only thing it does is put the Bush unilateral nuclear disarmament plan on paper and makes it legally binding and enforceable by the Russians. The only nuclear arms eliminated under this agreement will be US ones. A senior US official has already stated that the US will likely destroy the bulk of the 4300 stratnukes it withdraws from service under this treaty. They will probably keep several hundred in reserve as spares capable of being returned to service within a several month period. Anyway, the bottom line is that this treaty will go far to make the world safe for nuclear conflict by increasing the dangers of nuclear war with Russia. Bush was wrong to sign it. He should have listened to the wise counsel of his Secretary of Defense who in confirmation hearings in January 2001, questioned the need for any reductions to our nuclear arsenal.

[rightwing2]

DANGEROUS DISARMAMENT BUMP!!

[elmer fudd]

The problem I have with these treaties is that they are with the wrong country. Russia is fast becoming a strategic partner, and it is hard to imagine a scenario today where we would go to war with each other.

China on the other hand is modernizing and building up it's military at a frightening pace. What we're going to find out ten years from now is that we have nothing to fear from the Russians, but because of unnecessary arms control agreements with them we are outgunned by the Chinese who are surely celebrating our stupidity. Imagine the negotiations next time one of our planes is forced down and we have 2,000 warheads and the Chinese have 20,000.

[rightwing2]

The problem I have with these treaties is that they are with the wrong country. Russia is fast becoming a strategic partner, and it is hard to imagine a scenario today where we would go to war with each other. China on the other hand is modernizing and building up it's military at a frightening pace. What we're going to find out ten years from now is that we have nothing to fear from the Russians, but because of unnecessary arms control agreements with them we are outgunned by the Chinese who are surely celebrating our stupidity. Imagine the negotiations next time one of our planes is forced down and we have 2,000 warheads and the Chinese have 20,000.

Russia remains a clear and present danger to the US. Pretenses aside, it is no US ally as this author has repeatedly pointed out. Interestingly enough President Bush and Condi Rice recognized this during the campaign with their repeated expressions of reservations about President Putin and their refusal to meet with him during the first five months of the administration. Rice stated in 2000 that "there is much reason to be optimistic about President Putin." Bush declared "anyone who says he knows what Putin is up to is just blowing smoke."

The turning point came when Bush began to smart under attack from his European allies for his "unilateralist" foreign policy and was counseled by British PM Tony Blair to lay off the criticisms of President Putin's genocide in Chechnya and his authoritarian suppression of dissent at home. Bush then decided that he wanted to be well-liked not only by the US people, but by Europeans as well and thus arranged a meeting with Putin in Slovenia in June 2001 predeterming the outcome with a declaration to his advisors that he would use the meeting to declare a new found friendship with the Russian President according to a recent article in Time magazine.

There Bush melted in the face of KGB spymaster Vladimir Putin's charm offensive declaring in Chamberlainian terms that he had "looked into Mr. Putin's soul and found that he was a man he could trust." Bush proceeded to declare that he had achieved "peace in our time" and has caved to Putin and appeased him on just about everything but the ABM Treaty ever since. The list of Bush appeasements to Russia includes the Moscow Treaty which mandates that the US eliminate 75% of its deployed strategic nuclear deterrent while enabling the Russians to keep their MIRV'd missiles, joint development of US missile defenses with Russia and the award of a de-facto veto to Russia in NATO's highest policymaking counsels. In return, Putin has proffered only one major concession--allowing a few thousand US troops to be stationed in still Communist controlled Central Asia. Appeasement of dictators has failed every time it has been tried. It failed in 1938 and it will ultimately fail here.

As far as Communist China is concerned, they currently possess only 2300 nukes to our 8000. By 2012, the US will reduce to 3700 nukes and Communist China could potentially surpass us by that time though I think 20,000 nukes is a pretty unrealistic projection.

[flamefront]

I share your concern for this piece of paper.

But since
the treaty does not require any reductions in deployed warheads whatsoever until the treaty comes into force in 2012
just maybe events will eclipse the reason to hold to this treaty like the ABM treaty that was just nullified.

[Stavka2]

Each one of those warheads is a smaller yield weapon then one American city buster. Besides, why should the US be the only one able to pose a threat....try thinking through that hypocracy rationally...if you're capable of rational thought and not just hysterics.

[Stavka2]

Yes, so instead of blowing up the world 6 times, you can do it 8 times...end result? You guys are hillareous. Do you even have a concept of how big a crater, blast zone, fire ball and deadly nuclear radiation a 25 megaton city buster has? Try this: everything within 30 KM is dead, the fall out is much worse. Now, try and challenge your brain to come up with 1000 targets, let alone 2000+. But then again, you've got the same virus that Hitler and Stalin had: Bigger MUST be Better....more, more, more...you need to watch Doc. Strangelove a few times. Maybe you can lead in the cave race.

[MarMema]

But then again, you've got the same virus that Hitler and Stalin had: Bigger MUST be Better

You really made me laugh. I remember my friends in Moscow showing me the "Propoganda" plaques in the Metro. Those huge vegetables.
I remember when I found out about the world-renowned ballet, the Bolshoy. That it means Big Ballet.

Anyway, this treaty is about trust between Putin and Bush, a lovely thing to celebrate. Both Americans and Russians who have not visited the other country are struggling with that same trust. Post-cold-war trauma.
Did you see that Putin took Bush and his wife to a liturgy at the Kazan Cathedral, and Laura wore a headscarf? WOW. I was amazed.

[MarMema]

There Bush melted in the face of KGB spymaster Vladimir Putin's charm offensive declaring in Chamberlainian terms that he had "looked into Mr. Putin's soul and found that he was a man he could trust."

Or, Bush was able to overcome his previous cold-war misconceptions and realize that Putin was a good man. Some people can move on, some remain stuck.

[MarMema]

Darn it - my brain is not working this morning. I meant to add to my last post, that yes, we definitely have that same virus here in America. Only here it is about desks, offices, and lawns. And maybe cars or trucks.

[Paul Ross]

Yes, so instead of blowing up the world 6 times, you can do it 8 times...end result? You guys are hillareous. Do you even have a concept of how big a crater, blast zone, fire ball and deadly nuclear radiation a 25 megaton city buster has? Try this: everything within 30 KM is dead, the fall out is much worse. Now, try and challenge your brain to come up with 1000 targets, let alone 2000+. But then again, you've got the same virus that Hitler and Stalin had: Bigger MUST be Better....more, more, more...you need to watch Doc. Strangelove a few times. Maybe you can lead in the cave race.

Your misspellings almost make me laugh, except your substantive points are just too demented for me to feel the slightest bit of hilarity. Wake up and smell the coffee. The Russians are the only ones to have tested a 100 megaton bomb. We do not deploy 25 megaton bombs on anything. Our MX missiles will soon be retired, and their warheads are typically far smaller than your grandiose ideas. Our Titan II's were loaded with the largest operational warhead we had, a 9 megaton bunker-buster. Dismantled in 1987, bud.

How much is the FSB paying you to haunt this site, and write your drivel?

[Stavka2]

Oh, I do it for free...to much fun. Yup, 9 Mega tons, that's definitly a "bunker buster" If the bunker was about 4 times the size of Nagasaki. Again, you have no clue of the power you are talking about. A bunker buster would be in the small kilotons. High kilotons and megatons are made for one purpose only, destroy cities.

[Stavka2]

Yup, I was impressed. I love pointing out the obvious to these nuts. Oh, we are doomed, we are doomed, we can only blow up the world 6 times and those bastards can do it 8 times. What shall we do? Know what I mean?

[MarMema]

Americans don't get out enough. A german once told me on a Lufthansa flight something similar. He said our biggest downfall here in America is limited access to other cultures, few borders with other countries (Canada hardly counts as a separate culture), and we don't bother to learn a second or third language.

In Russia the 2nd graders speak near-perfect English and are working on their third language.

For vacations Americans go to Boston and think they have seen something really old.

[MarMema]

How much is the FSB paying you to haunt this site, and write your drivel?

Not to mention the fact that the "Ugly American" title is still well-deserved, in many cases.

[MarMema]

It must be frustrating for you. You move to America, the Soviet Union collapses, and then you find you are back in the Soviet Union, with all the propoganda, fears, and mistrust you thought were left behind.

[Paul Ross]

Wrong. The Titan II was always an early hard-target-killer to preclude the Soviet military leadership from thinking they could hide deep enough under mountains to survive the war and yet prevail. Not a city-attack weapon. This kind of warhead would be uneconomic for such an attack. Indeed, MULTIPLE small warheads are vastly more efficient (and far cheaper to make and deliver) for optimal dispersal of destruction on such 'soft' targets.

Interesting that you unrepentantly never admit when you're wrong about such elementary historical facts, but just move on to other aspersions and disparagements. Of course, you are still the product of your state education...wherever you happen to live. I will pray for both you and MarMema (yet another ugly American?), that you will seek after God in true humility, and seek for his will and grace for your lives....

[gcruse]

Maybe you can lead in the cave race.

Mine space.  The mine space race. :)

[Stavka2]

Thanks for the prayer, but I already do. You should follow your own advice. Guess if someone doesn't agree with you, you judge them...real Christian of you. Fundimentalist?

Here, do a little research:
Nuclear Blast Radius
25 megatons: 10 mile radius, over 50% casualties, instantly.
1 megaton: 2.7 mile radius, over 50% casualties, instantly.
Oh yeah, 9 Megatons is just for a bunker....bs.

[Paul Ross]

Then you shouldn't mind being prayed for. As for judgmentalism, I was the target of you and your 'friend.'

I don't judge your salvation, that is between you and Jesus. If he is your saviour, however, I would think you should want to be showing that more openly in your walk and talk.

I note again however you have failed to evidence any humility, at least so far as a simple discussion of national security goes, and you make a variety of mistaken statements---echoing the Soviet Union Propaganda fronts from the Cold War, that are just plain whacked: E.g., there are no 25 megaton bombs in any of our missiles. And the biggest warhead we ever deployed on a missile has been decomissioned. Sheesh! And your PBS (Publicly Broadcasting Socialist Monopoly) blast program is frankly erroneous with regard to hardened targets. The Russians are so proud of their super-hardened silos they think they can take almost a direct hit from our warheads. Who knows, maybe their right?