Israel Soon to be a 'Christian' Nation?

NewsMax ^ | 6/15/2002 | NewsMax

[Cicero]

One of the basic problems in Israel is the question, "Who is a Jew?" Is one Jewish by religion or by ancestry? If your mother is Jewish, that makes you Jewish, but if your father is Jewish you may choose to be a Jew, though it may take a Rabbi to bless the choice. In America it could be a conservative or reformed Rabbi, but in Israel it has to be an orthodox Rabbi. You can be a convert to Judaism, too, even without any Jewish blood. If you are of Jewish blood, you are considered to be Jewish even if you keep no part of the Covenant and have absolutely no religious beliefs. But it's generally thought, paradoxically, that you repudiate your Judaism if you convert to Christianity and are baptized, even though your blood is pure Jewish. So you can be an atheist Jew but not a Christian Jew, according to the belief of many or most Jews. Or maybe you can be a Christian Jew, because who gets to make the rules? At the moment, its an agreement between the Orthodox rabbis and the Israeli Supreme Court, but that's subject to future political decisions. Or maybe it's not, because as Michael Novak recently pointed out, no one can choose to be Jewish. Instead, it is more properly said that God chooses them. They are the Chosen People. So ultimately it's God who decides who is a Jew.

Altogether, it's a tangled matter. And it's further complicated by intermarriage with Christians and others, and by the regretable fondness of secular Jews for birth control and abortion, which means that they are slowly committing demographic suicide.

[Illbay]

Wrong enough to commit espionage time and time again against the U.S. Wrong enough to kill U.S. sailors.

[Illbay]

Well, first of all, it isn't "Jihadists" that are the ones primarily fighting against Israel. That war's been going on LONG before the Muslim fanatics got involved, and although most Palestinians are Muslims a great many of those fighting against Israel are Christian (I continually point out that PLO spokeswoman Hanan Ashrawi is a Christian). The "Jihadists" are simply one player--a minor one--in that whole fight. And in fact, the "Jihadists" see Israel as a minor irritant; WE, the U.S., are their primary target.

If Israel wants to war against "Jihadists," let 'em do it by all means.

But what the Israel sycophants on FR want is for the U.S. to go and fight Israel's enemies for them.

Tough sh*t, 'cause it ain't gonna happen. That's why they are so continually frustrated when they babble on at this site.

[weikel]

I don't care if they are christian anyone aiding jihadist is a jihadist. If Israel wasn't there the pallies would have killed off the remaining christians long ago.

[LostTribe]

>One of the basic problems in Israel is the question, "Who is a Jew?"

Easy to see how that may be a problem in Israel, where these definitions are mostly man-made.  But the genetic trail is clearer, and that's the only trail that counts in Biblical interpretation and application.

>... They are the Chosen People.

What does that mean? Chosen for What?  Would you cite a Biblical source that says Jews are exclusively Gods Chosen People?

[BrooklynGOP]

But what the Israel sycophants on FR want is for the U.S. to go and fight Israel's enemies for them.

You are out of touch with reality. The reality is that Israel *is* fighting its enemies, while WE are the ones preventing them from doing so.

[Lessismore]

But the genetic trail is clearer, and that's the only trail that counts in Biblical interpretation and application.

So God is a racist?

[BrooklynGOP]

Wrong enough to commit espionage time and time again against the U.S. Wrong enough to kill U.S. sailors.

USS Liberty was an accident and Israel has apologized for the incident (didn't we kill a couple of canadians a few weeks ago?). By bringing up an old incident from decades back you show how week your case is.

[LostTribe]

>So God is a racist?

I really don't know where you are coming from, but if you will expand the question I will try and respond to it. If there is really a question there.

[Lessismore]

Is it your view that God bestows rights, responsibilities, benefits, etc, on some people and not others based on the genes they have from their ancestors?

As opposed to belief in God or his representatives, belief in scripture or creed, moral conduct, behaviour towards their fellow-man, etc.

[Illbay]

I'm not talking about Israel, I'm talking about her apologists on FR.

[Illbay]

Look, the debates on the Liberty are pointless. There's no way it was an accident, no more than it was an "accident" that Jonathan Pollard was spying for Israel, that Israel turned around and sold the information gained to the Soviet Union in return for exit visas for Soviet "Jews" (many of whom, if you'll reread the article above, apparently weren't even Jews), and that Israel continues to lobby for his release.

Sorry, but that's just a slap in the face. I'm all for "friendship" with Israel, or Saudi Arabia for that matter.

But I'm tired of being slapped in the face by these penny-ante excuses for "countries."

[Prodigal Daughter]

IDF soldiers who refuse to take the oath of allegiance on the Tanakh (Jewish Bible), but rather insist on doing so on the New Testament.

If true, those IDF soldiers are not Christians; they are replacement theologians.

[MissAmericanPie]

Based on the contract between God and Abraham.

[Notforprophet]

If you accept that the Hebrews (ie: sons of Abraham) are God's chosen people, then YES God is a racist. He chose a particular race of people as His chosen people, and has directed history around that same chosen race of people.

If you mean racist as in "David Duke" or "Josef Goebbels", then no, by sending His Son to die for the sins of all mankind He has proved Himself not a racist in those terms.

[LostTribe]

>Is it your view that God bestows rights, responsibilities, benefits, etc, on some people and not others based on the genes they have from their ancestors? <p>

>As opposed to belief in God or his representatives, belief in scripture or creed, moral conduct, behaviour towards their fellow-man, etc.<p>I'm still not sure what has your panties in a knot.  My comments here are simply dealing with the issues of "who is a Jew" and "what is this chosen people business".  My answers above address those questions.<p>

If you seek more elaboration of those positions, this may help:<p>

 

A 3-MINUTE HISTORY

Four Thousand years ago, Abraham (a great-great grandson of Shem, a son of Noah) and a group of Hebrews(of which there were & are many varieties) migrated from southern Iraq to Canaan (~Palestine). Several generations later, around 1875 BC, his Grandson Jacob (who was renamed Israel) and his 12 Sons and families moved to Egypt. As offspring of Shem, they were called "Shemites" or " Semites", as were his many other offspring.

~1450 BC, now as the 12 Tribes of the 12 Sons of Israel, and over 3 Million strong, these Semites bailed out of Egypt in the well-documented EXODUS and fled back to Palestine.  But the Tribes “couldn't all get along” there, so ~922 BC these 5 Million Israelites split into the Northern and Southern Kingdoms.

(In actual numbers, 5 Million people is about the same size as Ireland, Norway, Denmark or Israel today, and was 10% of the estimated 50 Million world population at that time. The world population is now ONE HUNDRED times as large. Compared to todays 6 Billion people, the Israelites relative population would have been over twice as large as the United States of America!)

The very large Northern Kingdom was made up of 10 of the Tribes. It was also known as the Kingdom of Israel or House of Israel , and was led by the Tribe of Ephraim . These NorthernIsraelites were taken into captivity by the Assyrians ~722 BC and relocated to the northern Fertile Crescent area of Iraq/Iran. They were not good about keeping up with changes in their eMail addresses, thus were called, by some, the "Lost Tribes", or "Lost Sheep" or "Lost Children" of the Kingdom of Israel. (But at ~1/12 of the worlds population it seems unlikely they would really disappear, or get "lost". The global population ~75 Million.)

A hundred years later, this "lost" Northern Kingdom of Israel with now over 6 Million Israelites escaped and migrated north through the Caucasus Mountains and past the Black and Caspian Seas, to appear in history ~610 BC as The Celts. These Celts mixed with (and fought) other scattered Israelites ( proto-Celts) who had escaped from Egypt by sea a thousand years earlier and established many outposts in Europe and elsewhere.

These Millions of Celts grew over time to become Hundreds of Millions as they migrated in waves westward and northwest to Galatia, Ephesus, Corinth, Phillipi, to what is today Hallstadt, Austria and Neuchatel, Switzerland (where exist major Celtic digs and museums) and beyond, to dominate Northern and Western Europe. They are the rootstock of today’s Europeans, and Americans.

The much smaller Southern Kingdom was made up of the Tribe of Judah & a mix of Levites and Benjamites. It was also known as the Kingdom of Judah or House of Judah , and it's inhabitants were later called Jews , as are their offspring today. These Southern Kingdom of JudahIsraelites were taken captive in ~587 BC and removed to Babylon. Only ~50,000 returned to Palestine ~70 years later.

[BrooklynGOP]

I'm not talking about Israel, I'm talking about her apologists on FR.

Example please?

[BrooklynGOP]

Look, the debates on the Liberty are pointless. There's no way it was an accident, no more than it was an "accident" that Jonathan Pollard was spying for Israel, that Israel turned around and sold the information gained to the Soviet Union in return for exit visas for Soviet "Jews" (many of whom, if you'll reread the article above, apparently weren't even Jews), and that Israel continues to lobby for his release.

Get your facts straight.. The non Jewish russian immigrants is a phenomenom of the past 5-8 years... Jews who left 1988-1994 (and ofcourse in the seventies) *were* Jews.. When did the pollard incident happened?

[rdb3]

Thank you for shining the light on nonsense.