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The End of Islam (kind of long - but worth it)
Faith Freedom International ^ | August 2002 | Ali Sina (former Muslim)

Posted on 06/16/2002 9:43:56 PM PDT by ValenB4

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To: mikeIII
I ,for one, won't buy the theory that communism is a religion

Communism had its own understanding of history, of the future, of ethics, of God, of life and of death, of humanity, and of essential meaning. In as much as it was totalitarian, it was indeed essentially religious (all totalitarianisms try to be...didn't the Nazis really "worship" Hitler?) --even if that religion was one which essentially denied the supernatural. It's focus, unlike traditional Western religions was on external, social and political life--materialist to the core, but make no mistake, for millions it was indeed the central part of their life, their reason they felt to exist. You can say it was an ecconomic theory--but it was the ultimate economic theory in that it claimed that ALL was only economics and class struggle for material gain....

Like all religions, only a relative few were dedicated believers.... many more were only nominal followers--forced into it by the revolutions which took over their countries. When it became clear that despite lofty claims--its theories didn't work--the nominal ones fell away quickly--and the true believers (generally those in power...) sought to maintain their material advantage by getting as much as they could in the collapse of the system. The Russian mafia is a good example--it boomed with former communists upon the USSR's demise--and still Russia is largely controlled by many of the same people who were in the Party--now they just party with other criminals, to the destruction of their country.

61 posted on 06/18/2002 1:56:47 PM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: AnalogReigns
I don't think Islam is likely to disappear anytime soon either. One thing that I do disagree with is his assertion that the ignorant don't matter. The religious leaders of Islam are largely ignorant about and bitter towards the outside world. But they are going to inspire and lead many who are willing to act out violence. That is why the intellectuals are going to have to assert themselves despite the danger. They don't do any good if they remain silent forever.

I think it's kind of sad that the author doesn't has lost faith in everything religious. Perhaps that was inevitable considering his background. However, most people are not strong enough to become outright atheists. He also doesn't seem to acknowledge that even if there is no God, there are practical uses to religion - such as the cohesion of communities, the ability to overcome grief, etc.

The truth is usually somewhere in the middle - the world will not fall under the stagnant domination and oppression of Islam, but Islam will probably not disappear. As the educated, wealthy, and intellectuals begin to leave the religion, and if it suffers geopolitical setbacks such as the overthrow of the Iranian regime, it may become weakened and discredited substantially, and thus lose its intolerant and hateful fire.

If that doesn't happen, there is always something called the Trauma Theory of Cultural Change, in which either a disaster or an outside power forces by devastating means a culture to reassess itself. Hopefully it doesn't come to that. He says that there are a few thousand visits to his site everyday. Maybe he's right to be optimistic.

62 posted on 06/18/2002 2:30:18 PM PDT by ValenB4
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To: Squantos
Thanks for the ping, bud!

Yeah, I'm still alive - just kind of in "lurker mode".

I check in every day and take a quick look around, but that's about it. When the winter months roll around, I should be a little more socialable!

63 posted on 06/18/2002 5:49:53 PM PDT by pocat
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To: AnalogReigns
And, I would add, the Marxist vision of the ultimate Worker's Paradise on earth served the same emotional needs as belief in a personal Paradise after death.
64 posted on 06/18/2002 6:00:40 PM PDT by steve-b
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To: mikeIII
I ,for one, won't buy the theory that communism is a religion.

Do yourself a favor, and read some of the masterpieces written by former communists. Two short/easy read pieces are Dedication and Leadership by Douglas Hyde and Darkness at Noon by Arthur Koestler.

You will sooner or later want to read Witness by Whitaker Chambers; this has to be one of the most poignent and influential autobiographies of the 20th century. It is also one of the very few books that kept me up 'til 3 a.m. several mornings in a row, despite having a full-time job! (the other was Gulag Archipelago)

I pray we may be equal to the opportunities when Islam falls. Back when SHintoism was discredited, Douglas MacArthur asked for a thousand missionaries. He got a few -- and a whole lot more industrial gurus, like the justly renowned Edwards Deming. Today, Japan has about 1% Christian population, and a powerful public culture of materialism.

65 posted on 06/18/2002 6:20:11 PM PDT by TomSmedley
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To: pocat
Summer ?!?!?! It's Summer ? I gotta look outside dang it !!

We'll ping ya any way and you can answer this winter and confuse us all as to what in the world your talking about !.......:o)

Stay Safe

66 posted on 06/18/2002 10:25:56 PM PDT by Squantos
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To: mikeIII
First off, Christianity spread even faster and Islam is 1400 years old, it is not a new religion or a young one. Within 300 years, most of the Roman Empire, home to a quarter of humanity was Christian. Following this were the Slavic lands, the Germanics and the Gallic lands, not to mention southern India, Armenia, Georgia, for a time a lot of Afghanistan, Persia and most of North Africa/Middle East.
67 posted on 06/19/2002 2:29:16 PM PDT by Stavka2
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To: mikeIII
Give me a large enough army and a brigade of Priests and I'll give you a Christian Middle East.
68 posted on 06/19/2002 2:30:44 PM PDT by Stavka2
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To: ValenB4
bump
69 posted on 06/19/2002 2:38:42 PM PDT by Intimidator
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To: Stavka2
Well, you're missing the point, but your comment clearly supports my point!

What "large enough army" did you have in mind to convert the ME to Christianity and what would you have them do? What size of an army and methods were needed in bringing down communism in the Soviet Union? Or would be needed to achieve the same in China over, say, the next 50 years? The point is, you don't need these "large armies" to convert communists. The peoples of these countries are not communists by choice.

So. You can have a non-communist China in short order, and without an army and a brigade high-priests of any kind - simply give them the choice!

70 posted on 06/19/2002 4:20:43 PM PDT by mikeIII
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To: Salvey
My Iranian friend (who visits there freely) tells me that there is a great deal of foment among the enormous numbers of young Iranian people, and that it is only a matter of time before they overthrow the theocrats who really control the "government", such as it is.

I remember reading a Wall Street Journal article a few years back that said that part of the problem is that the clerics effectively own everything in Iran, much like the Communist Party nomenclatura effectively owned everything in the USSR.

When you're hungry, and you see the clerics living large, the situation is ripe for revolution

71 posted on 06/19/2002 4:30:09 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor
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To: AnalogReigns
By stretching the definitions of religion and of communism I am sure you can find some commonality. Yes, "only a relative few were dedicated believers" in both cases. The BIG difference is that the masses in one instance are what they are by choice and in the other, they are so under oppression. I don't know of any one who is a Christian because of oppression or fear.
72 posted on 06/19/2002 4:32:33 PM PDT by mikeIII
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To: TomSmedley
Do yourself a favor, and read some of the masterpieces written by former communists.

Thank you, kindly, but to what end? You have proved my point!

Why do you think, despite McArthur's efforts, there's barely 1% of Christians in Japan, but the country en-masse changed their political ideologies?

73 posted on 06/19/2002 4:41:43 PM PDT by mikeIII
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To: mikeIII
No, I didn't miss the point of this piece. I also didn't miss the point that these humanists have never figured out human nature. By their point, Islam should have collapsed 100 years ago,when all Islamic lands were under control (with the exception of Turkey...and it had just been beaten by Christian rebels) of Christians who had much higher technologies and standards of living. Did it? No. Humanists have always misconstrued human nature. The uneducated masses do not have to follow the intelligentsia...as the communists found out. They can only be changed, radically, by force.

As for the Islamics, one must fight his enemy on even footing. As such, convert in the old ways, whole communities at once, while banning and destroying the images of their islamic faith....harsh? Yes. But who will remember in 2 or 3 generations? Does the West still crave it's pagan roots that were pulled out the same way? No.

74 posted on 06/20/2002 10:59:48 AM PDT by Stavka2
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To: mikeIII
Did they? If you look closely, historically, Japan only changed while under occupation and returned quickly to previous trends...which is in part the economic anchor that is around it's neck this day.
75 posted on 06/20/2002 11:02:18 AM PDT by Stavka2
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To: ValenB4
While I'm skeptical of the author's faith in a few intellectuals over a billion idiots, this is good reading.

BTT
76 posted on 06/29/2002 12:33:49 PM PDT by El Sordo
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Comment #77 Removed by Moderator

To: ValenB4

bttt


78 posted on 06/27/2013 7:44:07 AM PDT by TEXOKIE (We must surrender only to our Holy God and never to the evil that has befallen us.)
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