Loyalty in your survival group

SHTF School ^ | 5/13/14 | Selco

[Kartographer]

Loyalty is one thing that you need to “grow”, and it needs time to grow, that is why it makes sense to have prepared your group before SHTF, it may be slow process, and you need to be sure what kind of people you have there.

My SHTF experience was very bad from the perspective of what I saw when it comes to loyalty.

When you have big number of unprepared folks thrown in really hard situation like war, you can see all kind of examples, mostly bad one.

Yes, I saw people betraying their friends, or even families. Sometimes for the few more hours of life. Sometimes even for food.

[bgill]

The wife should have been filing for divorce the next morning.

[bgill]

Good point about the funeral vultures. Add the everyday two-faced ones and holier than thous to the list.

[CodeToad]

Loyalty ends where desperation begins.

[Smokin' Joe]

When an extended family member wife asked her husband, who carries a 45 handgun, if he would shoot to save her, he hesitated, then said he might get in trouble if he shot

That hesitation spoke volumes, the excuse a library.

She's on her own.

[novemberslady]

Thanks for posting

[Smokin' Joe]

...just have a death in the family and watch vulture relatives fight over the STUFF.

There is a sizable segment of the family I don't trust as far as I can throw them as a result of such observation. There are a couple who need not even come in my house.

Sad, but true.

[Marcella]

“That hesitation spoke volumes, the excuse a library.”

You explained it very well. The hesitation was so long, my brain was thinking, “Why isn’t he talking?” I did not expect him to say, “I might get in trouble if I shot.” In my head I thought, “He is a wimp and she is dead.” I didn’t say anything as it wouldn’t have changed his mind, he made his decision when he hesitated so long.

My handguns are to use in a life threatening situation and if I have to have one in my hand for that reason, I will damn sure use it - without hesitation.

[Smokin' Joe]

My handguns are to use in a life threatening situation and if I have to have one in my hand for that reason, I will damn sure use it - without hesitation.

For me, it was all hypothetical until I had to draw down on someone coming in the place I was living. Had it been the person who was the threat, a small movement and a squeeze would have finished it.

From there, it was a matter of rolling the revolver back in my hand, letting the hammer down and admonishing the person for the way they entered, especially since they knew the situation.

When I got my concealed carry permit, years later, the standard was simple.

It only comes out when there is a threat, and then to be used. Period.

I even bought a S&W Ladysmith hammerless (Model 642) because it would be reliable to shoot out of a parka pocket without having to draw it. You can get a new coat. (After I got Mrs. Joe one to carry in her coat pocket or purse--it may only be a .38, but I liked it that much.)

I can't fathom someone more worried about getting into trouble than defending their spouse, but then, an old Sheriff told me once when discussing a threat, "If the threat is real, do what you need to do. Just make sure you are the one who fills out the paperwork."

[mad_as_he$$]

Those kinds of people need to be on the special action list.

[Marcella]

“I even bought a S&W Ladysmith hammerless (Model 642) because it would be reliable to shoot out of a parka pocket without having to draw it.”

That weapon is very similar to my Ruger 38 special hammerless and I added a red laser. It’s loaded with hollow point cartridges and is small to conceal easily. I read it’s a favorite of cops for their second weapon due to it being small with no exposed hammer.

[Smokin' Joe]

I figured I could get five rounds out of a parka pocket if confronted, and Mrs. Joe could do the same with a purse or out of pocket, so to speak. I love semi-autos, but being able to get the first and successive rounds off with the firearm still in the pocket with a high probability of success trumped the extra rounds.

It is so light, I can carry both.

Both are loaded with frangible rounds to eliminate through-and-through penetration and increase energy transfer. Not to be used lightly, but can be used without worrying about hitting others who may be behind a perp. The anticipation is that range will be short, possibly arm's length.

[B4Ranch]

Very rarely unless I am traveling at night or through neighborhoods where it isn’t safe to be unarmed. I have a weapon in each vehicle that is accessible should I need one.

[Marcella]

What do you call a frangible round? What kind of cartridge?

[redhawk.44mag]

Same here. Virginia is open-carry, but I’m not. I’m hoping for concealed carry without a permit someday.

[Smokin' Joe]

This is what Mrs. Joe uses, although it is not a true frangible round: Hornady Critical Defense These are not to be confused with the Hornady Critical Duty rounds, and the difference is explained here.

Remington disintegrator ammo is a true frangible round, with the bullet composed of a jacket and a powdered metal core. here and another brand On impact, the bullet after short penetration peels open and the individual small grains of core material separate into the target. The wound channel is large, but relatively short, all the energy being transferred into the target, and little or no through and through penetration. These bullets have the added benefit of breaking up in drywall, so the chance of penetrating a wall and hitting someone on the other side with lethal results is greatly diminished. The results, to a soft target, however, are devastating.

I hope this answers your question, and I apologize for taking so long to reply.

[Marcella]

Thank you for that cartridge info. That is good ammo for short distance and that would likely be my situation. Thanks so much.

[Smokin' Joe]

My pleasure! Keep in mind that if you think you may need to shoot through car doors, walls, auto glass, or the like, then frangible ammo, and even some of the high expansion ammo will not penetrate with lethal force because it fragments readily (as it is designed to do). The Critical Duty ammo was designed to pass through intervening light obstructions and still get the job done, which is why I included that information. I hope you never need it. Stay safe!

[TMSuchman]

4 Reasons To Add a Pellet Air Gun To Your Survival Gun Arsenal
March 9, 2011 By Creek 121 Comments

You read the heading correct – I said Pellet Gun. Yes, the kind powered by air – just 1 step above a BB gun. I own many guns of many calibers and styles for many different purposes. Among these is a good quality Pellet Air Gun and it’s not just because I still have it from when I was a kid. I INTENTIONALLY have added this gun to my survival rifle options for very specific reasons…which I have detailed below. If you’ve never considered a Pellet Gun as a survival rifle option, you might change your mind after reading this post.

Next to my 12 Gauge Mossberg and my Ruger 10-22 sits a very cool and collected Benjamin Sheridan 392 .22 caliber Multi-Pump Pellet Gun and I treat it with the same respect as it is a very specialized soldier in my arsenal.
Benjamin Sheridan 392 .22 Cal Multi-Pump Pellet Gun

Benjamin Sheridan 392 .22 Cal Multi-Pump Pellet Gun

As a student and instructor of survival living, I take my gun choices very seriously and only add one to my cabinet if it deserves to be there. Below are 4 reasons (in no particular order) why a Pellet Gun deserves to be including in your Survival Rifle selection:
Survival Reason # 1: Excellent Small Game Hunter

A pellet gun, especially .22 caliber, is an excellent weapon to take down small game. While people have taken larger game such as wild boars with air guns, they are best suited for small game. Hunting small game is perfect for any survivalist. Rabbit, squirrel, dove, quail, duck and the like are excellent food sources and are readily available in most of the country. With practice, hunting small game with a pellet gun is absolutely no problem.
Small Game Hunter

Small Game Hunter

I have taken many small game animals with my .22 cal pellet gun. It requires better stalking skills, but that is a good skill to learn anyway. It requires better shooting skills, but that is also a good skill to hone in on. Hunting with a pellet gun will force you to be a BETTER hunter and it will also put dinner on the table. For an interesting photo gallery of pellet gun hunting kills visit: http://www.adventuresinairguns.com/gallery56-i-12.html
Survival Reason # 2: The AMMO

The Pellet Gun’s AMMO is one of the more convincing reasons to have one on hand. Pellets, no matter the caliber, are very cheap.
.177 cal Pellets - 500 Count for $10

.177 cal Pellets - 500 Count for $10

You can buy 100s of pellets for just a few bucks. Spend $50 and you’ve got enough to last a lifetime of small game hunting. If all hell breaks loose, traditional ammunition will become increasingly difficult to get your hands on. Not to mention that it will be ridiculously expensive. If the world we live in ever gets this way, why waste your traditional ammo on hunting squirrel or other small game? That would be wasteful and careless if there was a smarter way. There is – PELLETS.
1000s of Pellets Fit into Small Spaces

1000s of Pellets Fit into Small Spaces

Not only are pellets DIRT CHEAP, they are very small. You can carry 1000s and not even know they are there. You can store 10s of 1000s in just 1 shoe box. To top it off, pellets have a shelf life of pretty much FOREVER! Traditional ammunition can go bad over time. Especially with the talks of giving ammunition an expiration date, stocking a few 1000 pellets isn’t a bad idea.

Worse case scenario you could use all these extra pellets to reload your shot-gun shells.
Reload Empty Shotgun Shells With Pellets

Reload Empty Shotgun Shells With Pellets

Survival Reason # 3: Silent Shooter

Forget the earplugs. These guns are silent. In many survival scenarios, a silent weapon is a good thing. Not only can you hunt without drawing attention to yourself or your family, but shooting a silent weapon often means you can get off more than 1 shot if there are multiple targets. Both of these are positive. People pay 1000s of $$$ to make their guns silent. No extra charge for the pellet gun.
Survival Reason # 4: Powered By Air

You don’t have to buy air. And, it’s never going to be out of stock. For this reason, I prefer either a MULTI-PUMP or BREAK-BARREL Pellet Air Gun. I have opted NOT to purchase a CO2 or pneumatic powered air gun. Needing to refill canisters or tanks doesn’t make any sense in a survival situation. You want to keep it as old fashioned as possible. It’s hand pump all the way for this survivalist.
Break-Barrel Survival Pellet Guns

Break-Barrel Survival Pellet Guns

There are tons of options when it comes to Hand Pump or Break Barrel guns. They both come in .177 and .22 calibers. The fps varies depending on the gun. My Multi-Pump Sheridan shoots 850 fps but there are models out there that shoot upwards of 1250 fps which rivals some rim-fire cartridges. Like anything, the details are personal choices. However, I definitely suggest a PUMP or BREAK-BARREL so that you can manually charge your air chamber rather than being dependant on other air supply products.

So there you have it, 4 solid reasons why I keep a Pellet Gun in my survival arsenal.

I hope this has been useful information and as always I would love you hear your thoughts and comments.

Cheers-

Creek

A good read