FL: SB 290 Re-Introduced to Reform Florida Gun Law During Emergencies

Gun Watch ^ | 10 January, 2015 | Dean Weingarten

[marktwain]

Florida State Senator Bandes aims to restore a portion of second amendment rights in the state.   A quirk in the State law prevents people from taking their firearms with them during emergencies, including mandated emergency evacuations.  Here is the stated purpose of SB 290.From flsenate.gov:

            1                        A bill to be entitled                      
    2         An act relating to carrying a concealed weapon or a
    3         concealed firearm; amending s. 790.01, F.S.; providing
    4         an exemption from criminal penalties for carrying a
    5         concealed weapon or a concealed firearm when
    6         evacuating pursuant to a mandatory evacuation order
    7         during a declared state of emergency; providing an
    8         effective date.

The bill essentially removes the penalties for carrying a concealed weapon during declared emergencies. It creates "constitutional carry" for the limited time of an emergency. It seemed close to passage last year with major support in the House, appeared to have easy passage in the Senate, and was backed by Governor Scott.  Then the sheriff's association, for what appear to be frivolous reasons, apposed it and it was maneuvered to defeat in the Senate. 

Here is the language in the current SB 290:

 29         (a) A person who carries a concealed weapon, or a person
   30  who may lawfully possess a firearm and who carries a concealed
   31  firearm, on or about his or her person while in the act of
   32  evacuating during a mandatory evacuation order issued during a
   33  state of emergency declared by the Governor pursuant to chapter
   34  252 or declared by a local authority pursuant to chapter 870.
   35         (b)(4) It is not a violation of this section for A person
   36  who carries to carry for purposes of lawful self-defense, in a
   37  concealed manner:
   38         1.(a) A self-defense chemical spray.
   39         2.(b) A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other
   40  nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for
   41  defensive purposes.

There are more details about "electric weapons", but the purpose of the bill is to allow Florida residents who legally own weapons to carry them with them during emergencies.  Florida does not allow open carry of firearms, except in very limited circumstances.  That law may be unconstitutional.  There is a court case pending.  But right now, if you do not have a permit, and are forced to leave your home in an emergency, you cannot take your firearms with you. 
You cannot carry them openly, and if you do not have a concealed carry permit, you cannot carry them concealed.

So you are left with a Hobson's choice.  Leave them for potential looters and or damage; or risk breaking the law.

Senator Brandes version of SB 290 solves that problem in a simple, direct, way.  It reforms the law so that carrying concealed firearms during an emergency is not illegal.  People would still be forbidden from carrying the firearms openly in most circumstances.  It also has the advantage of restoring peoples right to bear arms to defend themselves during emergencies.

The law exposes the fundamental rift between political parties written about by Thomas Jefferson, among others.   Jefferson wrote:

"Men by their constitutions are naturally divided into two parties: 

1. Those who fear and distrust the people, and wish to draw all powers from them into the hands of the higher classes. 

2. Those who identify themselves with the people, have confidence in them, cherish and consider them as the most honest and safe, although not the most wise depositary of the public interests."

 --Thomas Jefferson to Henry Lee, 1824. ME 16:73 

 It is the second group that are working to reform Florida law to bring it into closer conformity with the second amendment, and the first group that oppose such actions.   It was distrust of the people that lead to more and more infringements on the second amendment in the United States.   The iconic political theorist,  Niccolo Machiavelli, noted the problems with politicians disarming people:

When you disarm [the people] you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred against you. - Niccoló Machiavelli, The Prince. 1537.

 The crime rate has consistently dropped in Florida since it passed its landmark "shall issue" concealed carry law in 1987.

"Trust the people" is the model the United States was founded on, and what has worked best for Florida.

SB 290 is a step to progress in that direction.

 ©2015 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Link to Gun Watch

[marktwain]

There *might* be a legal way to bring firearms with you, maybe unloaded and cased/locked/, but you should not have to do that.

Armed citizens should be a compliment to emergency personal, not a detriment.

Police need to get out of the "nobody armed but me" concept.

[from occupied ga]

Then the sheriff's association, for what appear to be frivolous reasons, apposed it and it was maneuvered to defeat in the Senate.

Once again showing that the police ae NOT on the side of freedom and will go out of their way to destroy our God given rights.

[Old Sarge]

the sheriff's association, for what appear to be frivolous reasons, apposed it and it was maneuvered to defeat in the Senate.

So, the same policemen for whom everyone shouts "they won't do anything, they're Oathkeepers!" are just waiting for the next Cat2 storm to hit, so that they can do a state-wide gun grab Katrina-style.

Until this gets stricken from the books, it stands as further proof that .Gov is not your friend.

[marktwain]

These laws have been on the books since 1987. There have been many emergencies in Florida since then, and I have not heard of any Katrina style gun confiscations.

Sometimes these associations get dominated by a couple of personalities who push agendas. I think that is what happened here.

We will see what happens to this bill this year.

[Arm_Bears]

Seems to me that any state law restricting gun possession/use would be pre-empted by the Constitution.

But then again, I’m an old, White, Christian male—What do I know?

[Old Sarge]

There have been many emergencies in Florida since then, and I have not heard of any Katrina style gun confiscations.

And it is up to us, the vigilant, to make sure that it doesn't happen in FL.

Part of that effort means indentifying and removing the mechanism of seizure from the statutes.

Given the current national climate, with Leftists feeling empowered to rip the fabric of the nation, and holding the "Never let a crisis go to waste" mentality, I have no doubt that they would not try it.

[marktwain]

We have been fighting it in the courts since Heller was decided in 2008. We still have a long way to go.

The courts have been stacked against us since at least 1932, perhaps earlier.

We are winning there because we formed a political gun culture and won in the legislatures. We have also educated the public and some academics.

I think you are right, and there is a court case in Florida on your point:

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2014/12/fl-open-carry-ban-may-be.html

[marktwain]

“Part of that effort means indentifying and removing the mechanism of seizure from the statutes.”

Exactly correct.

[BCR #226]

” Then the sheriff’s association, for what appear to be frivolous reasons, apposed it and it was maneuvered to defeat in the Senate. “

And law enforcement wonders why they get no respect? Here ya go folks. In black and white.

[DocRock]

Bookmark

[i_robot73]

Today’s word is: ‘haven’t’

Big difference between may/shall/can and must/will...Not that gov’t understands those simple words to begin (see 2nd Amend. vs. any/all gun ‘control laws’)

[sport]

So, the same policemen for whom everyone shouts "they won't do anything, they're Oathkeepers!" are just waiting for the next Cat2 storm to hit, so that they can do a state-wide gun grab Katrina-style.

I don't see why not, they rounded up the Jews and others in Germany in the late '30s and early 40s for the German Government. They rounded up the Jews and others on orders from the Vichy French to appease the Germans from 1940-44. The Einsatzgruppen operating right behind the front lines rounded up and shot Jews under orders issued by the German High Command.

Because the police are an arm of the Government, if they received an order from say, a Governor or the occupier of the white House via, his attorney General to take an action or enforce said law, why would not they act? After all, they have families to support. They have their pensions to think about. And last but not least, here is what the badge lickers, the jackboot lickers and worshipers can never comprehend, they care more for the welfare of themselves and their families that they do for the scumbags. Who are the scumbags? It took me a while to figure this one out, a scumbag is anyone who is not a cop. A scumbag is who the cops are protecting the general public from. From their point of view, there scumbags come in two forms; those they have arrested and those they haven't arrested__yet.

[sport]

Police need to get out of the "nobody armed but me" concept.

You can forget that one, My FRiend. If anything that line of thinking is going to become more entrenched with them.

[sport]

The police, My FRiend, are an arm of the Government. They are the Government's enforcer. As the Government goes, so go the police. After us having a number of exchanges via this forum, I know you understand this. Don't waste your time trying to explain this to the badge worshipers and the jackboot lickers and worshipers.

When the Government does as governments were ordained to do, protect its Citizens from domestic enemies [criminals] and foreign enemies [invading armies], the Government and their police are friends of the Citizen. When the Government becomes controlling and dictatorial as ours has, the police become the enemy of the Citizen.

[Blue Collar Christian]

Law enforcement needs to completely readjust to understand that the people are their employer, not their subjects. We are a looooong way from getting this fixed.

Yes, they have a tough job, bla bla bla, but if it’s just the “few” bad cops that give cops a bad name, they need to be weeded out with extreme prejudice. And IMHO, it’s more than a few, otherwise the “good” majority would overwhelm the “bad” cops with an holy purge.

[yefragetuwrabrumuy]

Onto the political analysis. This might pass, but have things changed so that it will likely pass?

In any event, here is an article from last year detailing the specifics of the debate:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/florida-house-bill-would-allow-carrying-guns-without-a-permit-during-riots/2174397

[from occupied ga]

The police, My FRiend, are an arm of the Government. They are the Government's enforcer

So many people even here on FR don't understand this.