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How Should Police Stop A Knife-Swinging Laquan On PCP?
Misadventures in Diversity ^ | 11/25/15 | Donald Joy

Posted on 11/25/2015 11:57:19 AM PST by IChing

In the latest high-profile racial railroading of a white policeman for obvious political reasons, it has taken authorities over a full year to decide to charge Chicago cop Jason Van Dyke in the fatal shooting of black 17-year-old Laquan McDonald.

The obviousness of the racial/political theater here is largely due to the fact that the timing of the ridiculous charge — first degree murder — being suddenly announced after all these months, so transparently coincides with the sudden FOIA public release of a police dashcam video of the shooting which, to the untrained eye, looks pretty bad.

The video in question has been in the possession of the authorites this entire time. If it was a bad shoot, especially if so bad as to amount to first degree murder, they should have charged him long ago, apart from the racially ginned-up public and media hysteria wrought by release of the video, no?

As for allegations about the incident itself, there are some gray areas, and some clear-cut lines.

Officers were attempting to apprehend McDonald, who was later determined to have had PCP in his system, after he had been rampaging around the area and using a knife to not only break into cars and other property, but also slashed the tire of a police car in an initial attempt to arrest him just moments before he encountered Van Dyke and other officers.

The video shows that McDonald was not “walking away from” the officers, as many are insisting; he was walking briskly abreast of them and turning toward them(4:45), his left hand inside his pocket and swinging the knife in his right hand.

Most police officers are trained on the “21-foot rule”(also known as the Tueller Drill), the distance at which an officer’s “reactionary gap” (the time it takes the officer to recognize the threat, reach, draw, aim, and fire on the subject) puts his own life in jeopardy from a subject with an edged weapon.

Here’s a very good demonstration of the 21-foot rule:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_KJ1R2PCMM

It has been proven over and over again (unfortunately not only in training drills but in many cases where officers have been murdered/gravely wounded) that an agile subject with an edged weapon can suddenly, as rapidly as 1.5 seconds, close a distance of up to 21 feet to fatally stab/slash a victim, even kill or seriously wound a trained police officer armed with a gun.

That’s LESS time than it takes an officer to recognize the threat, reach, draw, aim, and fire on the subject — the “reactionary gap.” 1.23 seconds is the fastest closing time of the 21-foot distance measured.

I played the video over and over at various speeds, and the taser wires are visible well before McDonald shows any kind of reaction(indicating that the taser may not have functioned immediately or properly), and he actually turns toward the officers(4:45) as he walks briskly abreast of them with the wires attached, swinging the knife in one hand, with his other hand in his pocket.

Then, it looks like the gunfire is what brings him down, because you can see dust/debris kicked up as the rounds hit the concrete around/under McDonald’s body when he falls.

If Van Dyke believed the taser did not function, it can be argued that he legitimately perceived McDonald (who had just slashed a police car’s tire with the knife) to be an imminent deadly threat within the 21-foot reactionary gap.

That perception wouldn’t mean that he necessarily HAD to shoot McDonald, but it would definitely mean he’s not guilty of murder.

The 21-foot rule has come under scrutiny and criticism in recent years/months, and I predict it will (as “stand your ground,” as misapplied as it was, in the Zimmerman case) be the centerpiece of this case.

Not guilty.

Oh, and by the way, as for the number of shots fired, the official answer is that once deadly force is deemed justified, the number of shots is really moot — although we all know that the public, media, and jurors can imagine that there can be some kind of “excessive” force beyond deadly force.


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Miscellaneous; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: banglist; chicago; crime; jasonvandyke; laquanmcdonald
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Dashcam video of the incident:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iND23AFZXdw&feature=youtu.be

1 posted on 11/25/2015 11:57:20 AM PST by IChing
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To: IChing

that video doesn’t show much.


2 posted on 11/25/2015 12:00:45 PM PST by stylin19a (obama = Fredo Smart)
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To: IChing

The tragedy is that it took them 12 months to charge this crappy cop. Cops like this make the entire force look bad.


3 posted on 11/25/2015 12:04:22 PM PST by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: IChing

Minimum response, if there is an imminent threat, is two rounds to center mass to neutralize the threat. Then you reassess while making sure there are no other threats. 16 rounds, when there was no imminent threat, is going to send this officer away for long time.


4 posted on 11/25/2015 12:05:12 PM PST by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Progressives spent that time trying to destroy it.)
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To: IChing
Treat PCP the same as illegally carrying a deadly weapon.

5 posted on 11/25/2015 12:05:48 PM PST by BitWielder1 (I'd rather have Unequal Wealth than Equal Poverty.)
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To: IChing

As I understand it several rounds hit him in the back. And he was shot numerous times while lying on the ground. Once he was on the ground he was not a threat to anyone.

I just believe that way too many cops are way too trigger happy. (Not all cops.) I remember in the old days if a cop had to kill someone the cop would be devastated. I had a relative cop who had to kill someone in self defense. He pointed a shotgun at the cop and the cop shot him. Turns out the shotgun wasn’t loaded. My family member never got over killing a man. He went to his grave with regret. It doesn’t seem to bother the cops one bit to kill someone today. Too many video games, I guess.

JMO


6 posted on 11/25/2015 12:06:11 PM PST by VerySadAmerican
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To: for-q-clinton

Rahm saved it for a “crisis needed moment”. Maybe to get the Syrian thing off the front pages.


7 posted on 11/25/2015 12:07:31 PM PST by VerySadAmerican
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To: IChing

Poor McDonald, having to keep his hand in his pocket to hold up his pants. There, but for the grace of a belt, went he.


8 posted on 11/25/2015 12:08:14 PM PST by NonValueAdded (In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act)
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To: IChing

This shoot was wrong. There is no way to justify what this cop did.


9 posted on 11/25/2015 12:09:53 PM PST by kjam22
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To: IChing

A lot of Monday morning quarterbacks out there. Someone has to police a violent and belligerent inner city population and I for one am willing to give the cops the benefit of the doubt.


10 posted on 11/25/2015 12:10:32 PM PST by turducken
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To: IChing

I don’t understand the first degree murder charge or why it took a whole year for this to come out.

It’s not that unusual for someone to empty a whole magazine without realizing it when the adrenaline is pumping.


11 posted on 11/25/2015 12:10:59 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: IChing

They are charging him with 1st degree because it will be harder to get a conviction.If a jury acquits him it is not on the city government, they can say they tried.


12 posted on 11/25/2015 12:11:55 PM PST by MCF (If my home can't be my Castle, then it will be my Alamo.)
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To: IChing

I hope most FReepers don’t subscribe to this author’s opinion that it is “railroading” a white cop. The cop was wrong, and now he is going to pay. Anyone trained in deadly force knows that, and that is why the case was referred to the DA.


13 posted on 11/25/2015 12:12:24 PM PST by Salvavida (The restoration of the U.S.A. starts with filling the pews at every Bible-believing church.)
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To: MCF

They are probably charging him with First Degree because he shot, the guy fell, the officer paused...and then emptied his gun into the guy.

Even the most “cop” cops are calling this murder.


14 posted on 11/25/2015 12:14:43 PM PST by Vermont Lt (I had student debt. It came from a bank. Not from the Govt.)
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To: IChing

How long were they in vehicle pursuit? 5 or 10 minutes?

This should have been more than enough time to to arrange for non-lethal weapons to be deployed or brought in.


15 posted on 11/25/2015 12:14:48 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: AlaskaErik

16 rounds, when there was no imminent threat, is going to send this officer away for long time.

...

Based on what law or precedent?

If it’s in line with his training, Supreme court decisions, or testimony from experts about such situations, he’ll be exonerated as most officers in these cases are.


16 posted on 11/25/2015 12:14:49 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: stylin19a

that video doesn’t show much.

...

Video never tells the whole story, and that’s the problem with these cases that are tried in the press and by lynch mobs.


17 posted on 11/25/2015 12:16:13 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: VerySadAmerican

on the ground...

you don’t know he’s not still a threat. you do not know he’s not getting back up. especially if you think he’s on drugs. he could be shot but not in anything vital. plenty have played possum.


18 posted on 11/25/2015 12:17:03 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: AlaskaErik
It may be possible that a person can close the 21 foot distance in one and a half seconds but that is only true if the perp is standing up. If two shots takes him down the other 16 were unnecessary and overkill (no pun intended).

I saw the film. The perp on PCP was being stupid but if he had been captured would not have received anything close to a death sentence. I'm hard pressed to call it murder in the 1st degree but it was murder. Unfortunately the cop had a history of overreacting with force, this will not end well for him. The cop will likely spend many well deserved years behind bars with those he put there.

I may sound harsh but as a society we give our police great power and authority. The only way to make sure they don't abuse it is to come down very very hard when they do.

I imagine if the cop had it do over again he would rethink using lethal force or continuing to use it after the perp went down. Continuing to shoot that many times after the perp is on the ground was unnecessary and murder.

19 posted on 11/25/2015 12:17:04 PM PST by JAKraig (my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: Moonman62
Video never tells the whole story, and thats the problem with these cases

If that were the case, no one would use it, including the cops. Btw, any evidence is better than none. And this goes for cops and non-cops. Learn it.

20 posted on 11/25/2015 12:18:22 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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