Posted on 07/15/2006 10:48:32 AM PDT by Xing Daorong
I don't understand, some people say that Islam is responsible for terrorism today, rather than those who manipulate and perversely interpret Islam to further their murderous aims.
Islam is so similiar to Christianity that there isn't even a point to it, every quote showing "Judeao-Christian hatred" can be logically explained by anyone who has read the Quran.
We have groups like Muslims for Bush (now Muslims for America) a primarily Republican group of American muslims supporting the War on Terror.
"I've had dinner with a pleasant Palestinian. Your point?"
Unless he plans to strap on a bomb, beat women, or funnel money to terrorists he should be treated like any other person.
Enough of this "precrime" "thinkcrime" BS. I thought we actually abide by the notion of innocent until proven guilty. You are declaring an entire people guilty for nothing more than holding on to a belief. Shouldn't we just arrest all white loners to prevent serial killings and rapes? How about Satanists for animal mutilation? Blacks and latinos dressed in certain colors and travelling in groups? Nazis and KKKs for hate crime?
OR we could actually do investigative work, find the bad apples and leave everyone alone like we did with Lackawanna, Miami, the attempted bombing of subways in NY. All of these were acomplished without inconveniencing or bothering a single Muslim/Arab who had no connection with the jihadis. Is it fool proof? No. But it works better than persecuting and alienating an entire segment of society because of their creed.
If we allow Neo-Nazis, PETA, liberals, and assorted whackjobs and extremists to stay in our country and exercise their rights free from harrassment and sanction (unless they cross the line into criminal/terrorist activity) then there is no reason why the same should not be extended to Muslims who for the majority are far better than any of the above whackjobs.
"Unless he plans to strap on a bomb, beat women, or funnel money to terrorists he should be treated like any other person. "
If we wait only until after an attack to respond, we lose. You insist that this war be treated as a law enforcement exercise. That's what Kerry would've done. That's what Bill did. That's what got us into this mess in the first place.
"Enough of this "precrime" "thinkcrime" BS. "
It's not CRIME. It's WAR.
"But it works better than persecuting and alienating an entire segment of society because of their creed."
We banned the German-American Bund. We should do the same with CAIR. Every Muslim who actually believes in his religion can never have loyalty to a secular government. Your way is the way of weakness and surrender. This is not a war we started. I'd prefer we end it.
Let's just agree to disagree. Do whatever you want but always keep in mind what would happen if the shoe is on the other foot.
"Do whatever you want but always keep in mind what would happen if the shoe is on the other foot."
I'm not sure I could wrap my mind around the idea of being a member of a murderous religion with preachers telling me to kill the nonbelievers.... Of course, I'm a civilized Westerner, not a barbarian.
One thing.
The words of Christianity do not command Christians to spread through force (Jesus even said not to try to convert those who do not want conversion! "Pearls before swine" ring a bell?).
The words of Islam, however, do.
Suit yourself. Good night.
There are three kinds of Muslims.
1. Terrorists.
2. Those who actively support the terrorists.
3. Those who think Islam is the only true religion and support the first two by their silence.
And you are which one of the three?
Oh...where to begin...
I think posting times are Pacific time zone and sign up times are GMT. That would explain the difference.
How do you Square this with your Catholic beliefs?
I have heard on other threads that this is due to differentials in clock settings. I think it is due to one of the servers being set to GMT.
My response:
MaJiN SaMWiSE
Posted 7/15/2006 8:52:00 PM
message detail As a simple rule of thumb, know that there is an agenda to demonize Islam.
Many of these verses are taken out of context. For example you quoted Surah 9 verse 5.
look at the the first verse in Surah 9
009.001
YUSUFALI: A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-
We arent allowed to attack anyone of which we have made treaties with. That verse that you quoted is saying not to engage in war during the Islamic sacred months.
MaJiN SaMWiSE
Posted 7/15/2006 8:54:03 PM
message detail ""Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in God, or in the Last Day, and who forbid not that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and who profess not the profession of the truth, until they pay tribute out of hand, and they be humbled"
Non-Muslims living under Muslim law must pay a tax. (Jizya)
Under Islamic law, All Muslims can be drafted to war. But under Islamic law Non Muslim minorities are not allowed to be drafted. But instead they must pay the Jizya.
MaJiN SaMWiSE
Posted 7/15/2006 8:58:42 PM
message detail 002.190 And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.
002.191
And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out
from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer
than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until
they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
002.192 But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
002.193 And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.
MaJiN SaMWiSE
Posted 7/15/2006 9:01:19 PM
message detail 8:61 "But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). "
60:8
"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers.
The entire Quran must be presented in its entirety during these debates because logically Muslims must follow the entire Quran. They cannot pick and choose. (There is also abrogation but that is a little more advanced)
Just to show you how easy it is to take things out of context,
Deuteronomy
13. And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
14. But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.
15. Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations
From a Muslim on anoter forum.
Indonesia has the largest Muslim population of any country and it is known for it's radical terrorist groups, it wouldn't be unfeesible to say you might have met a radical in SE Asia from Indonesia, but again I'm not sure.
I just wanted to identify myself as a non-Muslim to start, it wasn't a move for credibility.
[9:9] "They traded away GOD's revelations for a cheap price. Consequently, they repulsed the people from His path. Miserable indeed is what they did!"
Is this what you mean?
This just reeks of so much ignorance it's astounding.
"Many of these verses are taken out of context. For example you quoted Surah 9 verse 5."
The explanations you probably wrote on that other forum do not agree either with the text or history. Try again, Muslim.
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