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NAZIS BOMB NAVY BASE IN SCOTLAND, HIT CRUISER, KILL 15 (10/17/39)
Microfiche-New York Times archives, McHenry Library, U.C. Santa Cruz | 10/17/39 | Raymond Daniell, G.H. Archambault

Posted on 10/17/2009 5:24:39 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson

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TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: milhist; realtime; scotland; worldwarii; wwii
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Free Republic University, Department of History presents World War II Plus 70 Years: Seminar and Discussion Forum
First session: September 1, 2009. Last date to add: September 2, 2015.
Reading assignment: New York Times articles delivered daily to students on the 70th anniversary of original publication date. (Previously posted articles can be found by searching on keyword “realtime”.)
To add this class to or drop it from your schedule notify Admissions and Records (Attn: Homer_J_Simpson) by freepmail. Those on the Realtime +/- 70 Years ping list are automatically enrolled. Course description, prerequisites and tuition information is available at the bottom of Homer’s profile.
1 posted on 10/17/2009 5:24:40 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
As early as October 17, 1939, with the Polish campaign scarcely over, [Hitler] had reminded Keitel that Polish territory

is important to us from a military point of view as an advanced jumping-off point and for strategic concentration of troops. To that end the railroads, roads and communication channels are to be kept in order.

William L. Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich

2 posted on 10/17/2009 5:25:32 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: r9etb; PzLdr; dfwgator; Paisan; From many - one.; rockinqsranch; GRRRRR; 2banana; henkster; ...
The International Situation – 2
35 Defenders Hurt – 2-5
Incidents in European Conflict – 4
Communiqués on Air Raid – 5
Repulse Damaged Says U-Boat Chief – 6
Nazis’ Use of ‘Cluster’ Torpedoes Indicated; Theory Found to Fit the Royal Oak Sinking – 7
Merchant Ships Sunk in War – 7
Assault in West – 8-10
Reich Police Order French to Register – 10
3 posted on 10/17/2009 5:26:41 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Germans raid Scapa Flow

Tuesday, October 17, 1939 www.onwar.com

In Britain... German Ju88 bombers strike the British naval base at Scapa Flow. The training battleship Iron Duke (which was the flagship of Admiral Jellico — 1914 to 1917 — during World War I) is damaged and has to be beached.

In the North Sea... German destroyers lay mines by night off the Humber estuary.

In Paris... The French report sharp infantry engagements on the front near Saarbrucken.

In Berlin... The Germans report “absolute quiet” on the Rhine Front. A lone German soldier was accidentally killed by falling shrapnel from a German anti-aircraft gun.

In Moscow... Turkish representatives break off talks for a defense treaty with the Soviet Union. While the prolonged Turkish-Soviet negotiations end without agreement there are professions of mutual friendliness. Soviet representatives paid tribute to Turkish Foreign Minister Sarajoglu before his departure. Last minute Soviet proposals conflicted with Turkish engagements to Britain and France and these were rejected by Sarajoglu.


4 posted on 10/17/2009 5:45:22 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Iron_Duke_(1912)

During the Second World War, she was used as a base ship at Scapa Flow, where she was forced to beach during an air attack in 1939. She was refloated and saw continued service until the conclusion of hostilities. She was sold in 1946 as scrap, and broken up in Glasgow in 1948. Iron Duke’s bell is on display at Winchester Cathedral. A wide variety of domestic nick-nacks made of teak from Iron Duke [1] are sold to the public.


5 posted on 10/17/2009 5:47:04 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

HMS IRON DUKE

6 posted on 10/17/2009 5:47:44 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono-28Depot-Iron%20Duke.htm

1939

October 16th

Scapa Flow deployment in continuation. During attack by Ju88 aircraft on Scapa Flow sustained some damage from near misses. One Boiler Room and two magazines were flooded

Ship developed significant list had to be beached at Ore Bay..


7 posted on 10/17/2009 5:52:07 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Southampton_(C83)

HMS Southampton was a member of the first group of five ships of the “Town” class of light cruisers. She was built by John Brown & Company, Clydebank, Scotland and launched on 10 March 1936.

Southampton was later damaged on 16 October, 1939 whilst lying at anchor off Rosyth, Scotland, when she was struck by a 500 kg bomb in a German air raid. The bomb was released from only 150 m height by a Ju-88 of I/KG.30, and hit the corner of the pom-pom magazine, passed through three decks at an angle and exited the hull, detonating in the water. There was minor structural damage and temporary failure of electrical systems. She was repaired and at the end of the year she was one of the ships involved in the hunt for the German battlecruisers Scharnhorst and Gneisenau after the sinking of HMS Rawalpindi. She then served with the Humber Force until February 1940, and then went to the 18th Cruiser squadron at Scapa Flow. On 9 April 1940, Southampton was operating off the Norwegian coast when she sustained splinter damage in a German air attack. The main battery director was temporarily knocked out. After being repaired, she had anti-invasion duties on the south-coast of England until she returned to Scapa Flow in October.


8 posted on 10/17/2009 5:53:58 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

HMS SOUTHAMPTON

9 posted on 10/17/2009 5:55:32 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
"Germans?"

germans

(love these historical posts, btw)
10 posted on 10/17/2009 6:57:02 AM PDT by 2sheds
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To: abb

Ju 88. The most underrated aircraft of WW II. Did it all. Dive bomber, bomber, torpedo bomber, recon, night fighter.


11 posted on 10/17/2009 6:59:39 AM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

btt


12 posted on 10/17/2009 7:16:13 AM PDT by beebuster2000
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To: abb
In Britain... German Ju88 bombers strike the British naval base at Scapa Flow. The training battleship Iron Duke (which was the flagship of Admiral Jellico — 1914 to 1917 — during World War I) is damaged and has to be beached.

In Paris... The French report sharp infantry engagements on the front near Saarbrucken.

Read these and other stories in tomorrow's edition of The New York Times. By then the "sharp infantry engagements" will have expanded to an attack by 100,000 Germans.

13 posted on 10/17/2009 7:42:48 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: PzLdr
Ju 88. The most underrated aircraft of WW II. Did it all. Dive bomber, bomber, torpedo bomber, recon, night fighter.

You would think the different performance requirements would make this almost impossible. Especially the torpedo bomber/fighter combination.

14 posted on 10/17/2009 7:46:52 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
35 Defenders Hurt – 2-5

Another bomb exploded in the water beside the destroyer Mohawk, causing only superficial damage, said the official version of the attack by the Germans. Commander R.F. Jolly of the Mohawk was one of those killed.

Unofficially, Cdr. Jolly might take issue with the "superficial" part.

15 posted on 10/17/2009 7:52:56 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/4426.html

HMS Mohawk (F 31)
Destroyer of the Tribal class

One of the more famous classes of destroyers in the Royal Navy.


16 posted on 10/17/2009 8:06:09 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.uboat.net/allies/commanders/1370.html

Richard Frank Jolly, RN

Events related to this officer
Destroyer HMS Mohawk (F 31)

16 Oct 1939
While providing escort for a North Sea convoy on 16th October 1939, HMS Mohawk (Cdr R.F. Jolly, RN) was attacked by a German Ju-88 aircraft. Before the aircraft was destroyed, it released two bombs which fell to starboard (abreast of the bridge) and to port (abreast of the torpedo tubes). The bombs exploded on the surface of the sea well before most men had time to reach their action stations. Machine gun bullets and jagged metal splinters decimated the mooring party on the fo’c’sle, slashed through the bridge, the wheelhouse, the director and the communications system. The personnel manning the machine guns, the search light position and after control position were mowed down by the projectiles. Fifteen men were killed and thirty injured, mostly experienced officers. On the bridge, Cdr R.F. Jolly, RN suffered a mortal stomach wound. While denying the comfort of medical attention, and in great pain and suffering, he commanded his ship for 35 miles until she was safely in port. After being taken to hospital at South Queensferry, England, he died several hours later. For his gallantry, the Captain was awarded the George Cross posthumously. The ship was patched up at Rosyth then made her way to the Hawthorn Leslie Yard on the Tyne river for permanent repairs and a refit.


17 posted on 10/17/2009 8:08:08 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: abb
16 Oct 1939
While providing escort for a North Sea convoy on 16th October 1939, HMS Mohawk (Cdr R.F. Jolly, RN) was attacked by a German Ju-88 aircraft. Before the aircraft was destroyed, it released two bombs which fell to starboard (abreast of the bridge) and to port (abreast of the torpedo tubes). The bombs exploded on the surface of the sea well before most men had time to reach their action stations. Machine gun bullets and jagged metal splinters decimated the mooring party on the fo'c'sle, slashed through the bridge, the wheelhouse, the director and the communications system. The personnel manning the machine guns, the search light position and after control position were mowed down by the projectiles. Fifteen men were killed and thirty injured, mostly experienced officers. On the bridge, Cdr R.F. Jolly, RN suffered a mortal stomach wound. While denying the comfort of medical attention, and in great pain and suffering, he commanded his ship for 35 miles until she was safely in port. After being taken to hospital at South Queensferry, England, he died several hours later. For his gallantry, the Captain was awarded the George Cross posthumously. The ship was patched up at Rosyth then made her way to the Hawthorn Leslie Yard on the Tyne river for permanent repairs and a refit.
18 posted on 10/17/2009 8:11:34 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: abb
You beat me.

"Superficial," indeed!

19 posted on 10/17/2009 8:13:37 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

What we are learning is that the “Phony War” (also called the Twilight War by Winston Churchill, der Sitzkrieg (sitting war) in German) was hardly that for the Royal Navy and the Kriegsmarine.

The winter of 1939-40 was fought in deadly earnest on the high seas between the two and was for them as real as it gets.


20 posted on 10/17/2009 8:26:45 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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