Brute Force: Humans Can Sure Take a Punch

Live Science ^ | Feb 3, 2010 | Charles Q. Choi

[decimon]

The human body can take a remarkable amount of punishment, given bones made of one of the strongest materials found in nature. At the same time, even an unarmed person can inflict an astonishing amount of damage with the proper training.

So how much does it take to crack a bone? And how much mayhem can a person deal out? In an era when "extreme fighting" has become a popular phenomenon, scientists are testing the extremes that athletes at the peak of their game can reach in order to help the rest of us.

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When it comes to knocking someone out with a punch, "it's less about the force of the blow than it is getting the head to whip around, to move in a rotational kind of way," Bir said.

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Knocking the wind out of someone is also less about force "than the impact occurring just right for it to happen," Bir said. When it happens, the air isn't literally squeezed from the lungs, but instead it is a matter of getting the diaphragm - the sheet of muscle under the lungs - to spasm.

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[decimon]

Some aggression ping.

[maddog55]

That hurt...

[WorkingClassFilth]

The technical term for that procedure is Jack Yo' Jaw.

[yefragetuwrabrumuy]

These scientists are behind the power curve. Back in the 1980s, karate martial artists were doing detailed studies into this, and reached some very interesting conclusions.

To start with, human muscle force acts on a curve, depending on the extension of the primary muscle group, and just as importantly, the measured relaxation of the opposing muscle group. That is, for example, when you are going to punch at chest level, when your fist is back near your chest, it exerts far less force than when it is at near maximum extension. If the opposing muscle group does not fully relax, it strongly reduces the force of the muscle movement.

Force multipliers and dividers at the mechanical level are constantly in play. These include complementary forces, torque, centrifugal force, leverage, and the whip effect. A punch or kick is much more potent when the user is firmly seated on the ground than when they are in the air. With a whip effect, the fingers can act like the clapper of a whip and cause serious damage.

Type of motion, linear or circular, also changes the force applied.

By Newton’s second law, force equals mass times acceleration. This means that since your fist weighs the same, the faster you punch, the more forceful the punch.

Follow through to a punch also matters, as does the focus of the force, whether it is the skin, an inch beneath the skin, or through the target. This significantly changes the damage inflicted as well.

A strange discovery is that expertise is not determined by how fast a fighter can hit, but how fast they pull back after a punch or kick. In some circumstances, pulling back so fast that additional damage is caused.

More effect and less injury is achieved by using a soft weapon, like the heel of the palm, against a hard target, and a hard weapon, like the point of the elbow, against a soft target, like the abdomen.

The use of the joints as loose, as levers or braces, or rigidly, strongly effects how they behave. The Wing Chun Kung Fu style has advanced techniques called “iron hand”, in which through training, the joints in the hand can be used like knives. At very short range, they can punch holes into someone’s chest cavity.

While some martial artists break bricks and boards, often this is done with brute force from considerable momentum. However, much more proficient experts can cause the same effect from as little as one inch away from the target, by maximizing the forces available to them.

[OregonRancher]

Another consideration is rotational sheer forces.

A hummingbird can absorb 300g’s of impact when pecking a tree because it keeps its head and brain in a perfectly straight line while in motion. Conversely, an elephant has no neck and must turn it’s entire body to face a threat. The larger the brain case, the slower the rotation speed allowed as the
brain cannot be allowed to actually rotate within the case.
If the rotational speed equals sheer speed, the animal experiences a black out.

[Chode]

iirc it only takes 12lbs pressure to break your collar bone with arms down, with arms back(like hands on hips) it drops off to ~5...

[Eagle Eye]

Hmmm....

[neverdem]

thanks, bfl

[grey_whiskers]

One other point -- it is not always the peak intensity of the force, but the shape of the force vs. time curve which leads to breakage -- if you allow the bones and internal structures time in which to deform, they can bear a much greater force than if the force "ramps up" suddenly. The garden variety analogy is to that of a fall onto a mattress vs. a concrete surface: the deceleration, and therefore the force, happens over a much shorter period of time on the hard surface...

Another intereesting thing (someone mentioned rotaiton of the brain) is the possibility for "diffuse axonal injury" eg. shearing of tissue within the brain due to the radial velocity gradient as one goes out from the center of the head: just as all points on a record turntable have the same angular velocity, but cover different distances, so it is with the head. The increasing velocity with distance gives rise to shearing forces, which, if great enough, can cause trauma in the brain even without blunt force.

Cheers!

[Tainan]

From a book by an author using the name..."Gilbey"...it is not his real name and there is much to believe that none of the stories are real.

The Dinky Little Poke.
The DLP is a chapter from a lurid little book called"The Secret Fighting Arts of the World"kinda like a 'Ripley's Believe It or Not' for martial arts technique.The offerings shift between streight ahead self defence tricks(Such as the clothes line ala Steven Segal)to wierdo stuff like Scream Fu!
But the best one of the bunch is the DLP.
The story accounts a bookish fellow who liked to drink in low places.The author recounts the tale like a news reporter.A bar tender tells him an experience where this fellow was being harassed one night by two toughs.After the situation got to the point of violence ,before any one could do anything ,both thugs hit the floor.No one saw the small fellow move yet boom boom,down they went.
The DLP is based on a principle which fits well with wing chun structure.
It's all in the angle of a basic streight punch launched to the point of the chin.If you punch into the chin following the line of the jaw from the chin point to the bottom of the ear you will lift the head along a diagonal line upward and back.This pinches an area of the brain called the Medula Oblongata.This part of the brain is very sensitive to irritation and normally well protected from harm....except from this exact angle.It sounds like it would be hard to do ,but in fact is quite natural to the WC play.A little empirical research between my friends and I confirmed it's utility.Very little power is needed to do the job,and does not even produce a bruise.Believe it or not!
I think this phenomenon is one reason WC is known for quick KO's.

The above was copied from a website where the DLP was discussed. I own the book in question and read about this, the DLP, many (20 or so ) yrs ago. Honestly, in my personal experience, there can be a good argument that the DLP is a real phenomena. It well explains something I have witnessed and experienced several times in the occurence of physical pursuits of an agressive nature.

[Tainan]

From a book by an author using the name..."Gilbey"...it is not his real name and there is much to believe that none of the stories are real.

The Dinky Little Poke.
The DLP is a chapter from a lurid little book called"The Secret Fighting Arts of the World"kinda like a 'Ripley's Believe It or Not' for martial arts technique.The offerings shift between streight ahead self defence tricks(Such as the clothes line ala Steven Segal)to wierdo stuff like Scream Fu!
But the best one of the bunch is the DLP.
The story accounts a bookish fellow who liked to drink in low places.The author recounts the tale like a news reporter.A bar tender tells him an experience where this fellow was being harassed one night by two toughs.After the situation got to the point of violence ,before any one could do anything ,both thugs hit the floor.No one saw the small fellow move yet boom boom,down they went.
The DLP is based on a principle which fits well with wing chun structure.
It's all in the angle of a basic streight punch launched to the point of the chin.If you punch into the chin following the line of the jaw from the chin point to the bottom of the ear you will lift the head along a diagonal line upward and back.This pinches an area of the brain called the Medula Oblongata.This part of the brain is very sensitive to irritation and normally well protected from harm....except from this exact angle.It sounds like it would be hard to do ,but in fact is quite natural to the WC play.A little empirical research between my friends and I confirmed it's utility.Very little power is needed to do the job,and does not even produce a bruise.Believe it or not!
I think this phenomenon is one reason WC is known for quick KO's.

The above was copied from a website where the DLP was discussed. I own the book in question and read about this, the DLP, many (20 or so ) yrs ago. Honestly, in my personal experience, there can be a good argument that the DLP is a real phenomena. It well explains something I have witnessed and experienced several times in the occurence of physical pursuits of an agressive nature.

[raybbr]

A hummingbird can absorb 300g’s of impact when pecking a tree because it keeps its head and brain in a perfectly straight line while in motion.

Did you mean woodpecker? I read recently where the woodpecker's brain is encased in a "net" that actually suspends the brain and absorbs the shock.

[yefragetuwrabrumuy]

Many years ago, Master Ed Parker of the Kenpo style required something close to a Master’s thesis for black belt promotions. One of his students with a background in medicine produced a very interesting book to the effect of the medical aspects of karate strikes.

Unfortunately, I’ve no idea as to its title, having only seen it once in its published form. Definitely a vanity press. Today I’m sure it would be a big hit with the CSI crowd, puzzled about the lack of blunt objects at a crime scene.

My personal experience with this was with a black belt woman who was extraordinarily powerful in her kicks and punches. She killed a rapist attempting to rape a woman in such a profound manner that the police refused to believe her, the rapist’s injuries more consistent with being hit from behind by a large vehicle at some speed.

After a brief hearing, she was released from any threat of charges, with the comment that “That guy sure had a bad case of the deads.”

[OregonRancher]

Did you mean woodpecker? I read recently where the woodpecker’s brain is encased in a “net” that actually suspends the brain and absorbs the shock.

Sheesh...where is my brain? You’re right and please
don’t ask me how I screwed that up...