Posted on 09/05/2014 11:01:29 PM PDT by chessplayer
In June, Sheila Sillery-Walsh, a British tourist visiting the historic island-prison of Alcatraz in San Francisco, claimed that she captured an image of a ghost in a picture she snapped on her iPhone. In the frame of what was otherwise supposed to be a picture of an empty prison cell was a blurry black and white image of a woman. The story, which was printed in the British tabloid the Daily Mail, featured on the Bay Area's local KRON4 TV station and mocked by SFist, isn't the first time the Daily Mail has claimed that strange images have come up on smart devices.
Normally, a paranormal story wouldn’t catch my attention, but a few months before the story came out, a Spanish friend of mine named Laura showed me a weird image she found on her phone while I was traveling in Madrid. The photo, taken on her iPhone while on a trip to Ethiopia, shows a boy looking down at leaves he is holding in his hands. Seemingly superimposed onto the boy is another image of the boy, hands in a different position and eyes looking straight at the camera.
Laura was convinced she captured an image of a ghost.
Then a few weeks later I discovered an image of a man in the background of a photo I took with my own iPhone. The picture was taken in my apartment and the man, whom I can’t identify, was not actually in the apartment at the time.
Recent surveys have shown that a significant portion of the population believes in ghosts, leading some scholars to conclude that we are witnessing a revival of paranormal beliefs in Western society.
(Excerpt) Read more at theatlantic.com ...
“You know, there is a test to see if the apparition is demonic.
Ask for an embrace; if they embrace you with your hands and theirs around the waist, it’s friendly.
If around the shoulders like a lover, it’s a demon.”
How do you know this?
You do, when you tell people that their very real and tangible experiences that defy conventional explanation, were merely ... Because we’re afraid to die and we want to be special. Encounters with things that “survived” death in some way feeds both, it makes us special today and gives us hope that death is not the end tomorrow.
You think yourself so superior that you discern our error while we remain blissfully self-deceiving. That is pretty much the opinion I see you expressing here, though more diplomatically.
That is assuming we know what death is.
Actually we only can hazard guesses and that's all we've been able to do for the past what, 5,000 years?
My bible tells me I have eternal life, or at least a chance at it. So I am perfectly comfortable with the idea of life continuing, if along other venues than this one we presently inhabit.
Everything your mad about came out of your head NOT my writing. I never said I’m superior AT ALL. The question of the thread was “why do people believe in ghosts”, I gave the answer from psychology. And BTW if you’d bothered to read the article it also presents psychological reasons for why people believe.
I sure hope you don’t believe you can read minds, because you’re WAY off. I don’t think I’ve “discerned” anybody’s error. I’m pointing out that there are good psychological reasons people WANT to believe. Heck there’s thing I WANT to believe in, and ghosts once were on the list. One of the primary reasons I walked away from that is those awful “ghost hunting” TV shows, they’re so pathetic, either desperate to believe or desperate to scam people (can’t decide which) so I walked away. When they all get canceled I’ll consider believing again. But if I choose to believe I’ll know why. I don’t see how knowing why I do irrational things makes me superior, doesn’t seem to stop me.
I have been to Gettysburg battlefield, Yorktown battlefield and Custer’s last stand battlefield. Probably some others I have forgotten. I always experience sadness when I am in those places.
We know what death is well enough to be afraid of it and bury people. It’s not really a guess. Anything that starts talking bout after death is a guess. There’s a good reason why every single culture on the planet has come up with religions, AND every single religion we’ve ever had includes some form of surviving death AND the idea of the chosen few. Your last paragraph just proved me right, you want to survive death and your belief in how you will makes you special. Funny you spend all this time insisting I feel superior (backed by NOTHING) and then you declare your own superiority. Pot meet kettle.
You ask them who won the Super Bowl last season. If they answer ‘Denver’, run like hell!
Just because you see something you can’t explain does not mean it’s a ghost. Just like when you see something in the air that you can’t identify it means it extraterritorial in origin.
If it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and swims like a duck,....it just might be a DUCK!
Not going to get into stories. What I have seen is real, and I knew what I was looking at. I was awake, sober, and clear headed.
I don’t talk about it, except to my wife. I am not looking to argue. I am not looking to convince anyone.
I appreciate your comment, and I agree with it for the most part. But, I respectfully choose my own eyes.
Where, exactly is heaven?
HEAVEN, HELL AND PURGATORY Pope John Paul II
In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him.
"Incorporeal things are not in place after a manner known and familiar to us, in which way we say that bodies are properly in place; but they are in place after a manner befitting spiritual substances, a manner that cannot be fully manifest to us." [St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, Supplement, Q69, a1, reply 1]
Heaven is the transcendent dwelling-place of the living God
Metaphorically speaking, heaven is understood as the dwelling-place of God, who is thus distinguished from human beings (cf. Ps 104:2f.; 115:16; Is 66:1). He sees and judges from the heights of heaven (cf. Ps 113:4-9) and comes down when he is called upon (cf. Ps 18:9, 10; 144:5). However the biblical metaphor makes it clear that God does not identify himself with heaven, nor can he be contained in it (cf. 1 Kgs 8:27); and this is true, even though in some passages of the First Book of the Maccabees "Heaven" is simply one of God's names (1 Mc 3:18, 19, 50, 60; 4:24, 55).
The depiction of heaven as the transcendent dwelling-place of the living God is joined with that of the place to which believers, through grace, can also ascend, as we see in the Old Testament accounts of Enoch (cf. Gn 5:24) and Elijah (cf. 2 Kgs 2:11). Thus heaven becomes an image of life in God. In this sense Jesus speaks of a "reward in heaven" (Mt 5:12) and urges people to "lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven" (ibid., 6:20; cf. 19:21).
3. The New Testament amplifies the idea of heaven in relation to the mystery of Christ. To show that the Redeemer's sacrifice acquires perfect and definitive value, the Letter to the Hebrews says that Jesus "passed through the heavens" (Heb 4:14), and "entered, not into a sanctuary made with hands, a copy of the true one, but into heaven itself" (ibid., 9:24). Since believers are loved in a special way by the Father, they are raised with Christ and made citizens of heaven. It is worthwhile listening to what the Apostle Paul tells us about this in a very powerful text: "God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus" (Eph 2:4-7). The fatherhood of God, who is rich in mercy, is experienced by creatures through the love of God's crucified and risen Son, who sits in heaven on the right hand of the Father as Lord.
4. After the course of our earthly life, participation in complete intimacy with the Father thus comes through our insertion into Christ's paschal mystery. St Paul emphasizes our meeting with Christ in heaven at the end of time with a vivid spatial image: "Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words" (1 Thes 4:17-18).
My point was that our souls “go” to heaven. This means that many believers think we leave our world and go elsewhere. If it is a “temporal” place, it could share physical space with our world. Therefore, overlaps and intersections might happen.
Not really looking to get into a discussion of the Popes definition.
I don’t really think his ideas are much better or worse than a lot of other definitions.
Neither am I. You asked a question, and I gave you AN answer.
I don’t really think his ideas are much better or worse than a lot of other definitions.
I didn't say or imply it was. If you don't find the answer itself helpful, just politely ignore it.
The thing I sensed was strong emotion: an overwhelming sense of feelings of sadness and resentment.
* * *
I’ve never seen anything either, but on several occasions I’ve felt strong feelings like that, coming from outside myself. One time I was at the Kimball Art Museum in Fort Worth with my dad, and the Kimball had a traveling exhibition of a bunch of very old African masks and various artworks. I lasted about five minutes in the room where they were before I had to leave. There was a VERY strong feeling of anger and threat in the room, almost palpable, and I couldn’t take it. My dad didn’t feel a thing.
Heaven is used in 3 meanings in Scripture. All are locative.
1) Where the birds fly, as in our atmosphere.
2) Where the stars, sun, and moon are located.
3) Above the other 2 places which is the Holy Abode of God the Father and where Jesus Christ is now seated until His enemies are made a footstool before Him.
It’s much simpler than your explanation.
God made man in Body, Soul, and Spirit. Each has a system of perception. The 5 bodily senses of touch, smell, hearing, sight, and taste are our bodily perceptions. The philosophical system using those perceptions is Empiricism.
The philosophical system using the perceptions of the soul is Rationalism.
Faith is the system of perception of the human spirit.
Every human being has the first 2 systems of perception, but God originally created man with all three. In the Garden of Eden at the Fall and first sin, man was separated from God spiritually. He died spiritually. Every human being (except for Jesus Christ), was born dead in the spirit and lacking those perceptions of the human spirit.
Just as our body can influence the soul, and the soul can influence the body, so too does the human spirit influence the soul, and the body, and visa versa.
When we have faith in Christ and believe in Him, God regenerates our human spirit, which is where God the Holy Spirit, then indwells us. He performs His work in us through our human spirit, while we remain in fellowship with Him.
Regarding the original topic of ‘ghosts’, they also are called ‘spirits’, though the two terms are not fully identifiable in their groups.
The Son of God (the 2nd person of the Godhead in the Trinity) is identified as having created all things and persons which can be created. He has authority over all things. He is also one with God the Father.
It is true, that whether it be a ghost or an angel, He has authority over that person. He has authority over bodies, souls, and spirits. Our faith is through Him first in all things, if we are walking in fellowship with Him. He will not allow us to endure any temptation too great than what we may resist.
For unbelievers, ghosts and fallen angels/demons are not as benign. They might have the ability to actually possess one’s soul and indwell our bodies. This is the topic of demon possession.
While rare, it does exist. More frequently experienced is demonic influence. We might have thoughts which didn’t originate with ourselves, which we occasionally perceive, giving evidence of this occurrence.
Attempting to rationalize or empiricise spiritual phenomenon is foolishness, because it originates from a different domain. This doesn’t make it any less real.
When people experience an encounter with a ghost, it ISN’T a normal encounter. Frequently it is characterized by the spiritual domain, because it IS spiritual. Those who are dead to the Spirit, will think it’s foolishness, because they lack the faculties to perceive spiritual things. They then will attempt to rationalize or empiricise the reports to fit their worldview.
Those who are atheist, may tend to identify the reports as a form of approbation lust, such as your suggestion people want to be the center of attention.
Many who report about ghosts are sharing their experience, because they realize their experience doesn’t fit into the norms of physical or soulish behavior. It does manifest facets unique from our physical and soulish experience. Until they have faith in God and His Providence, and mature as believers, they probably continue to have questions of that domain.
Many of our dreams are influenced by spiritual phenomenon. Angels may test us in our development. They might use our memory to stage events to test our volition and our faith, or doctrine, how we respond to different situations.
Many descriptions of ghosts identify a person, volition, and emotion, but rarely fellowship with God, unless identified with ‘Guardian Angels’. These are consistent with the spiritual domain.
If one wants to study the spiritual domain, study the Word of God. He is veritable and with supreme authority, which is something not attributable to other spiritual influences. ...and there also exist deceiving spirits, so caution is exercised appropriately by remaining in fellowship with God through faith in Christ.
We are to pray without ceasing, always walking with Him, and performing by His Plan. The Christian walk IS a spiritual walk. There is no better guide to understanding that domain than by His Word.
Thank you.
Exactly? I have no idea, but one thing I am certain of, it is not here on earth.
I have a serious question, after reading and thinking about this thread. I do not have deep religious knowledge. Here's the question:
The Trinity is The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit
Is that Holy Spirit much like the spirit people have, an independent entity separate from the body? When Jesus didn't immediately ascend into heaven, was it the time it took for his spirit to "cross over"? Is our spirit, or the "ghost" which sometimes stays behind the same kind of situation? Since Jesus was man, isn't that spirit something we have?
Perhaps we all have spirits which upon death decide for themselves when to cross over. Maybe that's what those who believe in spirits call ghosts?
These are thoughts I'm having, trying to figure out if it connects. Any comments or input?
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