ping
Next thing you know, someone will say there are not any rock monsters either
lol
Unfortunately, I believe Christians will go thru the Tribulation. It is from there, that God will separate the wheat from the Chaff. That is during those difficult times God will test his people - just saying.
Oh, it’s in the penumbra.
The “rapture” was invented by a door-to-door Bible salesman during the Depression.
About 20 years ago my pastor and his friend, smiled at each other about this same verse (Independent Baptists). I took it to mean that they also believed the rebellious ones were removed.
I always tell everyone to read 2 Thessalonians and make an outline when studying chapter 2. Occam’s Razor has come to mind when reading the Bible in regards to the Messiah. If it is too complicated, it sounds like someone justifying a lie.
Too many people haven’t read the whole New Testament in a way that they can retain it let alone the Old Testament. Why rush? Go to a fine restaurant (5 star) where each course is served individually and with plenty of time to enjoy it. Don’t read the Word of God like you are at McDonalds.
Why would God punish those that already believe in him?
The rapture is a term that describes an event. the Bible is clear the event will happen.
Actually, it does.
Vulgate:
deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul RAPIEMUR cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus
All this other stuff-- a 1000 year reign of Christ on earth, the rebuilding of the temple, etc-- is an unbiblical mish-mash of OT and NT passages taken out of context. This doctrine was only invented in the 1860's and is only believed by a tiny but vocal percentage of Christians, mostly here in the US.
The author of this article certainly doesn’t have a clue concerning Protestant beliefs. He would do well to research the accusations he levels. The idea of a ‘rapture’, be it ‘pre-trib’, ‘mid-trib’ or ‘post-trib’, is an idea that arose less than two hundred years ago, from the interpretation of Scripture by one John Nelson Darby. This interpretation seems most popular in the land of Hollywood and other English speaking countries and most certainly does NOT represent the belief of ALL Protestants.
Painting with such a broad brush stroke, would be akin my stating that, ‘All Roman Catholics worship Mary.’ THAT false statement would raise the ire of many Roman Catholics on this board, yet I have several Roman Catholics who claim that their faith requires the worship of Mary.
Mr. Martingnoni would do well to research his claims before stating them. The old sage advice that, ‘It is better to be thought an idiot, than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.’ most certainly applies in this instance.
As is typical, this Catholic is counting on other Catholics who reject the scriptures to follow right along behind him...He clearly doesn’t have a clue what the bible is talking about...
Mar 13:18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
Mar 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Mar 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. /I>
Mar: 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Mar 13:28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
Mar 13:29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
Mar 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
Mar 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Mar 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
Mar 13:34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
Mar 13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
Mar 13:36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
Mar 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
Those in Christ are caught up into Christ on his way down to earth with the believers in heaven. They receive new resurrected bodies, first the dead in Christ (those coming down with Christ) and then the believers still on earth. The new resurrected bodies are for earth... a 1000 year reign of Christ on earth before the judgement.
To all you pre-trib rapture people. Why are believers given new resurrected bodies in the air, to only be sent back to heaven? New resurrected bodies are for here on earth not heaven. We who belong to Christ who have not already died will see part of or all of the great tribulation....then Jesus Christ will return and we will receive new resurrected bodies and Jesus’ millennium kingdom will begin as satan and demons will be bound for a 1000 years.
The theology of the Tribulation is relatively new. John Nelson Darby was the main originator during the first half of the 19th century. It spread to the US with the Scofield Reference Bible.
Sorry but to many people the idea that God is male is not in the bible. I don't respond to such people. Well, not much.
(Note: The original link in this post is now dead, so I cannot critique it. And if I misunderstood it I do apologize.)
The evidence of the Rapture is obvious the Bible. I Th 4:15-17, Matthew 24, and all of Revelation point to it.
In John's revelation, Jesus admonishes the seven churches in Asia Minor for the first four chapters. Then after chapter 5 the scene switches to the future for the remaining chapters. And it's nasty: rebellion everywhere, mass death, plagues, wars, the Anti-Christ, the Beast, the False Prophet and their minions are all running around everywhere. Basically Team Evil is running the whole show.
But in Revelation 6 on, the church is *nowhere* to be found. Poof. It's completely gone. No mention of it anywhere. The Anti-Christ didn't take it over. Instead the Church just disappeared. Where did it go? What happened to it?
Hmm.. where did the Church suddenly disappear to at the end of the Bible?
The only target left seems to be Israel. Why is that?
Think about it. It's not that hard.
The two main eschatological views in Christianity today are Dispensationalism and Covenant Theology. Now, prior to 1948 the reason for the schism was very understandable. It was because of a little minor theological problem: the Jews and Israel. They are repeatedly referred to in Revelation (and indeed are the main actors in that drama - Christians are poof), but prior to 1948 there was no Israel. The country hadn't existed for thousands of years. Oops, that's a problem.
It was a problem that needed explaining. So to get out of the jam, Covenant Theology was invented in the 19th century, which posits that Christians are the spiritual successors of the Jews and that Israel is only symbolic. Basically Covenant Theology is an attempt to hand-wave away what is clearly depicted in Revelation as an actual physical attack against a real people and a real country: the State of Israel.
And this is what Dispensationalists believe. And it has been confirmed so far by what is already happening. When Israel re-appeared in 1948 it was unprecedented for a country that was dead for thousands of years to seemingly miraculously come back to life again. It's never happened before. And to revive a dead language like Hebrew that nobody had spoken in daily life for generations? Preposterous. And to reunite a diaspora of people who were scattered for thousands of years in hundreds of countries? Absurd. And yet there it is.
But don't take my word for it. Go to Bible Gateway and read Revelation starting with Chapter 6 (use a good modern translation like NIV). Then compare what you read to what is happening in our world already. Then decide for yourself.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 New International Version (NIV)
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
Nothing to see here. Move along sharply now...
The resurrection from the dead will be what most believers experience. A small number in comparison will not die but will be changed as was the case with the Old Testament characters Enoch and Elijah. This event is known as the “rapture” or “translation” of the church.
The Transfiguration was the glorification of the human body of Jesus. On this occasion His body underwent a change in form, a metamorphosis, so that it shone as brightly as the sun. At the time of the Transfiguration, Jesus’ earthly ministry was coming to a close. He had acknowledged that He was the Messiah and predicted His death and resurrection. Now He was to reveal, to a select few, His divine glory.
The Bible gives this account:
Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother brought them up on a high mountain by themselves, and was transfigured before them. his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with him . . . A bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, ‘This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear him!’ And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid. But Jesus came and touched them and said, ‘Arise, and do not be afraid.’ And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only (Matthew 17:1-3,5-8).
Jesus told Peter, James, and John not to tell anyone about this until after He had risen from the dead.
Years Later Peter Recalled The Event
Some years later Simon Peter would write of this event:
For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to him from the excellent glory: ‘This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.’ And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain (2 Peter 1:16-18).
Jesus Is The Son Of God
The Transfiguration provides further evidence that Jesus was the divine Son of God. It is not coincidental that this happened soon after Jesus had acknowledged Himself to be the Christ, the one who left heaven’s glory to come to earth. Now three of His disciples were to get a glimpse of that glory.
The appearance of Moses and Elijah with Jesus is highly significant. The name Moses was equated with the Old Testament law that God had given to the people. Jesus came and fulfilled the commandments of the law and did the things the law could not do, that is, to provide an answer for the problem of sin. The law pointed out the problem; Jesus gave the solution.
For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ (John 1:17).
Elijah was an outstanding figure in the Old Testament. He was a great prophet and his appearance with Moses on the Mount of Transfiguration testified that Jesus fulfilled the prophets, as well as the law.
The voice of God the Father gave further confirmation of the calling and Sonship of Jesus. He acknowledged that Jesus had pleased Him in the things He had said and done.
It Represented His Coming Kingdom
The Transfiguration scene of Jesus is a representation of His coming kingdom in its fullness. Jesus Himself said to His disciples.
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom (Matthew 16:28).
The Transfiguration occurred with Jesus and three of His disciples - Peter, James, and John. Moses and Elijah miraculously appeared with Jesus. At the foot of the mountain were the remainder of Jesus’ disciples and the multitudes.
When one considers the various individuals and groups involved, it paints a marvelous picture of Jesus’ coming kingdom.
Jesus Himself
First, there is the Lord Jesus in His glorified body.
There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light (Matthew 17:2)
He will rule in His coming kingdom in His glorified body.
Moses
Moses, in his glorified body, represented the saved that will enter God’s kingdom through death.
Elijah
Elijah never died. He represents those believers who enter the kingdom of God by the translation or the rapture of the church.
I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed - in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality (1 Corinthians 15:50-53).
Jesus’ Disciples
Peter, James, and John in their natural bodies depict those Jewish believers who will enter the coming kingdom.
The Various Nations That Will Make Up The Kingdom
The multitude of people, left at the base of the mountain, represent the various nations who will enter the kingdom of God in their natural or non-glorified bodies.
In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious. In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the sea. He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth (Isaiah 11:10-12).
The Transfiguration is significant because it was the glorification of the body of Jesus. Those with Him saw Jesus in His glory. The appearance of Moses and Elijah testified that Jesus was the one of whom the law and prophets spoke. The approving testimony of God the Father further confirmed the identity of Jesus.
In the Transfiguration of Jesus we have the various elements of the coming kingdom represented. There is the glorified King, those who will come into the kingdom through death, those who will come into the kingdom through the transformation of their bodies at the rapture of the church, those Jewish believers who will enter into the millennial reign of Christ in their earthly bodies, as well as the people from the various nations who will also enter into the millennium in non-glorified bodies.
Since the fall of humanity, with Adam and Eve, the normal experience for each human has been death. The writer to the Hebrews stated.
And just as it is appointed for humans to die once, and after that the judgment (Hebrews 9:27).
As we read through the pages of the Old Testament, we find this truth emphasized. There were, however, two exceptions to this rule - Enoch and Elijah. Neither of these men died. The Bible says of them.
Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away (Genesis 5:24).
As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them, and Elijah ascended in a whirlwind into heaven (2 Kings 2:11).
A Mystery Revealed
Not only are Enoch and Elijah the exception to the rule about death, the New Testament reveals to us something that had not been foretold - there will be a generation of people who will never die.
Rapture Of The Church
Before Christ returns to earth there will be an event known as the “rapture,” or “translation” of the church. The Scripture explains it in the following manner.
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. For this we declare to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord Himself, with a shout, with the archangel’s call and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18).
Another explanation is given in First Corinthians.
Listen, I will tell you a mystery! We will not all die, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable body must put on imperishability, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When this perishable body puts on imperishability, and this mortal body puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will be fulfilled: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved, be steadfast, immovable, always excelling in the work of the Lord, because you know that in the Lord your labor is not in vain (1 Corinthians 15:51-58).
Observations
From these passages we can make the following observations.
1. Not Everyone Will Die
Although death has been the norm for humanity, the Old Testament recorded two prominent exceptions - Enoch and Elijah. The New Testament also says that a living generation of Christians will not experience death, but will be taken up to meet the Lord.
2. No Need Of Resurrection
Those believers who are living at the time of the rapture, or translation, of the church, will not have to be resurrected. They will be changed, while they are alive, from mortal to immortal, from corruptible to incorruptible.
3. Meet Christ
Those who are instantaneously changed at the time of the rapture of the church will be with Christ forever in their glorified body.