Posted on 02/13/2018 6:12:01 AM PST by Bull Snipe
Give him a minute to recycle comment 32B
LOL! Thar ya go!
I hate to be persistent, but are you saying the slave state of Delaware fought the war to preserve slavery, or to end slavery?
“I see you’re still here and still asking stupid baiting questions.”
If you have something you believe might contribute to the debate you know you don’t have to ask my permission to post it.
“You’re too modest. Being disagreeable is what you live for.”
I hope we can put all the past disappointments behind us.
“And fight the South did (killing over 600,000 Americans) and for a very questionable reason: defense of their institution of slavery which they saw as threatened by the Republican election. So are you saying their cause is the better of the two?”
We know in 1861 the CSA had slaves. And we know the USA had slaves.
We know the CSA constitution enshrined slavery. And we know the USA constitution enshrined slavery.
We know the CSA president swore an oath to defend his pro-slavery constitution. And we know the USA president swore an oath - twice - to defend his pro-slavery constitution.
And we know that after the Emancipation Proclamation one of these presidents added a slave state to his nation.
Do you know which?
“Why?”
I thought I answered that question in my post 16. Let me try again: The South wanted to count slaves as full persons but the North insisted on counting slaves as zero. The respective arguments were to both sides’ economic and political best self interest.
I have never heard they were. History shows several southern states did vote against the 19th amendment. However, since the time of Washington (Father of our country) and Jefferson (Father of the Declaration of Independence) and Madison (Father of the Constitution) and Mason (Father of the Bill of Rights) the South knew they had agreed to a constitutional amendment process that would make women's suffrage an eventual possibility.
When some of the southern states were on the losing end of the 19th amendment ratification process they went along cheerfully knowing the vote was fair and followed the constitutional process.
It is almost a certainty that if the North had followed the peaceful constitutional amendment process to end slavery, there would have been no war.
We all know Lincoln - even as a congressman - never attempted to introduce a constitutional amendment to abolish slavery before the war - much less to pass it.
I don't mind your being persistent, it's the being obtuse part that is getting tiresome.
The Confederacy fought to preserve slavery. Delaware and the North fought to preserve the Union.
A rare fact from one of your posts.
We know the CSA constitution enshrined slavery. And we know the USA constitution enshrined slavery.
But the CSA Constitution enshrined slavery to an extent the U.S. Halt the expansion of slavery and even seeing it contract was possible under the U.S.Constitution It was not under the Confederate Constitution which preserved slave imports, ensured that slavery would exist throughout the Confederacy and in any territories that they might acquire, and prevented its ending by Constitutional amendment.
We know the CSA president swore an oath to defend his pro-slavery constitution. And we know the USA president swore an oath - twice - to defend his pro-slavery constitution.
Davis' upholding of his constitution was iffy at best, but you're pretty correct.
And we know that after the Emancipation Proclamation one of these presidents added a slave state to his nation.
Do you know which?
The U.S. Duh. Was there a point in all that?
Along with everything else they are supposed to be teaching...
Amen
“Delaware and the North fought to preserve the Union.”
It is often claimed the slave states were fighting to preserve slavery. Now you tell me some slave states were fighting for something else entirely.
I’m not picking on you. It was Lincoln and his war backers that first floated the various reasons it was best to go to war instead of solving differences through constitutional amendments - to collect the taxes; to preserve the Union; because “all men are created equal.”
There was a an explanation for every constituency.
I believe both sides went to war because they thought it was in their own best self interests. The problem, as others have noted, when nations get riled they often lose sight of what is in their own best self interest.
The copy of the Confederate constitution I've seen reads differently: “The importation of negroes of the African race from any foreign country, other than the slaveholding States or Territories of the United States of America, is hereby forbidden; and Congress is required to pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the same.”
So you do not consider safeguarding the ability to import slaves from the United States as preserving slave imports? What was it?
I'm not surprised that you could come to that conclusion.
It was Lincoln and his war backers that first floated the various reasons it was best to go to war instead of solving differences through constitutional amendments - to collect the taxes; to preserve the Union; because “all men are created equal.”
I'm not really sure how you can blame Lincoln for not using Constitutional amendments to resolve differences when the Southern states seceded and set up the Confederacy weeks before Lincoln was inaugurated, and then began the war within weeks after he entered office. Your timing doesn't work.
I believe both sides went to war because they thought it was in their own best self interests. The problem, as others have noted, when nations get riled they often lose sight of what is in their own best self interest.
And yet you blame Lincoln for it and not Davis. Are you suggesting that Lincoln was the only rational party of the two?
Let's review your paragraph to which I responded:
“But the CSA Constitution enshrined slavery to an extent the U.S. Halt the expansion of slavery and even seeing it contract was possible under the U.S.Constitution It was not under the Confederate Constitution which preserved slave imports, ensured that slavery would exist throughout the Confederacy and in any territories that they might acquire, and prevented its ending by Constitutional amendment.” (sic)
In trying to interpret your confusing word salad I made the assumption that you did not know that the US had previously ended the transatlantic slave trade and that it was that trade to which you thought the Confederacy had “preserved.”
I regret contributing to the confusion. It is clear that you (like the CSA itself) understand that the US was indeed a “foreign country” and that allowing slaves into the Confederacy from the US was an act of importation. Of course, you are right about that.
It did not immediately occur to me how far and how fast you have adopted the Confederate view.
Lincoln had said that he opposed slavery, even as a congressman. He could have introduced a constitutional amendment to end slavery peacefully in the 1850s. Of course he didn't because it was not in his best interest to do so.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any northern congressman introduced a constitutional amendment to end slavery peacefully before the war. If they did, it didn't go very far.
What can I say? It was early.
... I made the assumption that you did not know that the US had previously ended the transatlantic slave trade and that it was that trade to which you thought the Confederacy had “preserved.”
The U.S. outlawed the importation of slaves in 1807. I don't think anyone really believes that ended the transatlantic slave trade, either to the U.S. or elsewhere. What the Confederacy preserved was the importing of slaves from the U.S., clearly and distinctly in their constitution.
It is clear that you (like the CSA itself) understand that the US was indeed a “foreign country” and that allowing slaves into the Confederacy from the US was an act of importation. Of course, you are right about that.
Again you are incorrect. We were talking about the Confederate Constitution and the fact that it preserved slave imports. Given my past posts, no rational person would conclude I agreed with them that the Confederacy was an independent country, regardless of what they themselves might have believed.
It did not immediately occur to me how far and how fast you have adopted the Confederate view.
Yeah, I know. Missing the mark as completely as you often do is not something arrived at quickly. It takes time to twist things so badly out of shape.
Such an amendment would have required forty six states to ratify had all the slave states opposed it. Lincoln may have not had much schooling but his basic addition skills apparently are better than yours.
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