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Mark Steyn: Whatever You Do, Don't Call It a Hate Crime (Regarding the 7/4 LAX Gunman)
The National Post (UK) and two American papers ^ | 7/9/2002 | Mark Steyn (and two other columnists)

Posted on 07/10/2002 12:54:05 PM PDT by Bryan

Whatever You Do, Don't Call It a Hate Crime

I'm a dead white male, as you can tell from the above picture. Suppose on Martin Luther King Day I went to the offices of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People and shot the receptionists. How many nano-seconds do you think it would take before the attack was being characterized as racially motivated? Your top Olympic hotshot could ingest every steroid on the planet and he couldn't beat that time.

Suppose it was Judy Garland's birthday and I went to my local gay bathhouse and opened fire on the fetching young men handing out the towels. How many minutes would tick by before the word "homophobia" was heard? Or suppose it was the anniversary of Roe v. Wade, and me and my semi-automatic swung by the abortion clinic?

Well, you get the idea. On the Fourth of July (hint) a guy went to the airport in Los Angeles, sauntered up to the ticket counter of El Al (hint) and fatally shot two people and wounded three. How many folks hearing the news on a quickie radio update honestly expected it to be anyone other than a Muslim male of Middle Eastern origin? Obviously, Underperformin' Norman Mineta, the scrupulously sensitivity-trained U.S. Transportation Secretary, would have been wary of jumping to conclusions. Were he running the LAPD, he'd have pulled in a couple of elderly nuns and Kelli-Sue, a trainee hairdresser from Des Moines.

But, fortunately for the final death toll, El Al has its own security and so the suspect, after firing 10 rounds, was himself killed. And whaddaya know? He wasn't an elderly nun but a 41-year-old Egyptian male! His name wasn't Kellie-Sue, it was Hesham Mohamed Hadayet!

This stunning development seems to have completely disoriented the FBI. I quote from The New York Times headline: "Officials Puzzled About Motive Of Airport Gunman." Hmm. Egyptian Muslim kills Jews on American national holiday. Best not to jump to conclusions. Denial really is a river in Egypt. "It appears he went there with the intention of killing people," said Richard Garcia, the Bureau's agent in charge. "Why he did that we are still trying to determine."

CNN and The Associated Press all but stampeded to report a "witness" who described the shooter as a fat white guy in a ponytail who kept yelling "Artie took my job." But, alas, this promising account proved to be a prank. Saudi Arabia's popular Arab News suggested that Mr. Hadayet had made the mistake of doing business with El Al and that "the Israeli airline had been late in paying for two limousine rentals from the Egyptian immigrant's company." If a couple of late cheques were a motive for murder, Izzy's and Conrad's heads would now be stuffed and mounted in my trophy room. But, sadly, this cautionary tale about the Jew bloodsucker's commercial wiles proved also to be false.

That left the police with no leads. Nothing to go on. The trail's stone cold. All the FBI has is an Egyptian male, who'd complained to his apartment managers after his neighbours post-9/11 began displaying the American flag; who'd posted a banner saying "READ KORAN" on his own front door; who told his employees that he hated Israel, that the two biggest drug dealers in New York were Israelis, and that Israel was trying to wipe out the Egyptian population by flooding the country with AIDS-infected Jewess prostitutes.

Could even the most expert psychological profiler make sense of such confusing and contradictory signs? Beats me, Sherlock. But, as Agent Garcia says, there's no indication of "anti-Israel views or any other type of racial views." Orange County's Muslim Public Affairs Council has praised Agent Garcia for his exceptionally advanced levels of sensitivity. Any moment now, they'll be demanding to know why Governor Gray Davis has failed to visit a mosque to reassure Muslims.


(Mark Steyn in the British National Post, July 9, 2002)


LAX Shooter is a Bona Fide Terrorist

The case of Hesham Mohamed Hadayet, my dear Watson, is one of those detective stories whose solution is obvious to any newspaper reader but which baffles the authorities by its mysterious complexity. Let us simply list the clues:

1. He attacked the El Al airline at Los Angeles airport and killed two Jews. There are at least 20 airlines using LAX. So if this was a random attack — an enraged response, say, to bad airline food over the years — the odds were at least 20-to-1 against his targeting El Al. If, however, he consciously selected El Al for attack — which seems much more likely — then it is reasonable to conclude that he did so because El Al is the Israeli national airline and its officials and passengers were likely to be Israelis and/or Jews.

2. He was heavily armed but had no airline ticket or passenger pick-up that day. In other words, he went to LAX to murder people and not for some legitimate purpose.

3. He was an educated middle-class Egyptian citizen with family connections to people in the national establishment. If the FBI were still allowed to profile, it would have noticed that he fit the profile of the Sept. 11 hijackers with almost embarrassing exactitude.

4. His car bore the bumper-sticker "Read the Koran." Nothing wrong with that, of course. In the absence of other evidence it would suggest merely that he was a pious Muslim. But since ordinarily pious Muslims do not think it right to murder complete strangers, we may legitimately infer that he was one of that extreme "Islamist" faction known as al-Qaida that believes it entirely permissible, even mandatory, to kill Israelis, Jews and their friends and supporters, such as Americans.

5. His neighbors and employees testify that he frequently denounced Israel, U.S. support for Israel, and — despite his own relative rise to prosperity as a limousine business owner — American discrimination against Arabs and Muslims.

6. And the final conclusive piece of evidence that he was a terrorist: He had once been slated for deportation by the Immigration and Naturalization Service but the INS changed its mind and allowed him to stay in the United States.

Boom boom, as they say on the comedy shows.

What these clues establish, of course, is merely that Hadayet was a terrorist who set out to murder innocent bystanders for political motives. There is less evidence as yet that he was acting on the actual instructions of al-Qaida, or Egyptian Jihad, or any other organized terrorist group.

Some Middle Eastern sources, both Arab and Israeli, claiming counterintelligence sources, suggest that he was a "sleeper" for Egyptian Jihad and that he had twice met Osama bin Laden's deputy in California in 1995 and 1998. According to this theory, he set off to LAX on July 4 because his terrorist godfathers wanted a terrorist outrage on America's national day.

That is perfectly plausible. It is also possible, however, that he was a terrorist sympathizer who quietly seethed with hatred for Israel and the United States and sympathy for bin Laden until he decided one day to strike a blow on his own. After all, it required no great ingenuity to guess that an attack July 4 would be especially unsettling to Americans.

We shall discover which version is correct in due course. In either event, Hadayet was a terrorist.


(John O'Sullivan in the Chicago Sun-Times, July 9, 2002)


Terror & Denial [at LAX]

On the 4th of July, an Egyptian immigrant to the United States who believes in wild conspiracy theories about Jews, is known for his great "hate for Israel," and has possible ties to al Qaeda, armed himself to the teeth and assaulted the Israeli airline counter at Los Angeles International Airport, killing two.

It is obvious why Hesham Mohamed Ali Hadayet targeted Jews in a highly visible place on so prominent a date: to engage in terrorism against Israel.

But one important institution — the U.S. government — claims not to know Hadayet's goals. An FBI spokesman has said that "there's nothing to indicate terrorism." Another FBI official said of Hadayet: "It appears he went there with the intention of killing people. Why he did that we are still trying to determine." Possible causes named include a work dispute and a hate crime.

Sure, law enforcement should not jump to conclusions, but this head-in-the-clouds approach is ridiculous. It also fits a well-established pattern. Consider three cases of terrorism in the New York City area:

Rashid Baz, a Lebanese cab driver with a known hatred for all things Israeli and Jewish, armed himself to the teeth in March 1994 and drove around the city looking for a Jewish target. He found his victims — a van full of Hasidic boys — on the Brooklyn Bridge and fired a hail of bullets against them, killing one boy.

And how did the FBI classify this crime? As "road rage." Only because the murdered boy's mother relentlessly fought this false description did the Bureau finally in 2000 re-classify the murder as "the crimes of a terrorist."

Ali Hasan Abu Kamal, a Palestinian gunman hailing from militant Islamic circles in Florida, took a gun to the top of the Empire State building in February 1997 and shot a tourist there.

His suicide note accused the United States of using Israel as its "instrument" against the Palestinians, but city officials ignored this evidence and instead dismissed Abu Kamal as either "one deranged individual working on his own" (Police Commissioner Howard Safir) or a "man who had many, many enemies in his mind" (Mayor Rudolph Giuliani).

Gamil al-Batouti, an EgyptAir copilot, yelled "I put my faith in God's hands" as he crashed a plane leaving Kennedy airport in October 1999, killing 217. Under Egyptian pressure, the National Transportation Safety Board report shied away from once mentioning Batouti's possible terrorist motives.

And despite all the "world-has-changed" rhetoric following the horrors of last September, Western officialdom continues to pretend terrorism away.


(Daniel Pipes in the New York Post, July 9, 2002)


TOPICS: AMERICA - The Right Way!!; Society
KEYWORDS: fbi; hatecrimes; racialprofiling; terrorism
These are the three best opinion columns I could find regarding the 7/4 LAX gunman at the El Al (Israeli) ticket counter. It's time for American law enforcement to resume the use of racial profiling, and take the heat from the Left (along with the success at arresting and prosecuting offenders) that it would inevitably bring.
1 posted on 07/10/2002 12:54:05 PM PDT by Bryan
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To: republican; Angelique; rboatman; tame; Alamo-Girl; zappo; backhoe; goseminoles; Balding_Eagle; ...
Volley flag ... FIRE! ... CEASE FIRE! Chambers open, weapons down!

If you'd like to donate to the Free Republic Legal Defense fund, please click here. (Or at least help keep the thread bumped.)

bigotry \Big"ot*ry\, n. [Cf. F. bigoterie.] 1. The state of mind of a bigot; obstinate and unreasoning attachment of one's own belief and opinions, with narrow-minded intolerance of beliefs opposed to them.

I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
It smells like victory.

Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.

2 posted on 07/10/2002 12:56:33 PM PDT by Bryan
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To: Bryan
Thanks for the heads up!
3 posted on 07/10/2002 1:05:26 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Bryan
Great post.

Suggestion: Not to fight PC with yet more PC, I would suggest that law enforcement say, "Wait a damned minute. It's not RACIAL profiling -- it's CRIMINAL profiling with only ONE of the characteristics of the profile being race!" That's not being PC, that's just providing the proper definition for what they are doing. The libs have once again defined the issue by incorrectly characterising it. Law enforcement HAS to reclaim the language of their profession -- or continue to made impotent by the libs.

4 posted on 07/10/2002 1:21:55 PM PDT by Lee'sGhost
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To: Lee'sGhost
I think that Ann Coulter nailed it when she mentioned that 100% of the airline hijackings in the past 20 years were by Muslims of Middle Eastern descent. So she advised airport security to be on the alert for Muslims of Middle Eastern descent. When the likelihood reaches 100%, Coulter said, "That's not called 'profiling.' That's called 'a description of the suspect.' "
5 posted on 07/10/2002 1:44:08 PM PDT by Bryan
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To: Bryan
6 posted on 07/10/2002 2:13:21 PM PDT by phasma proeliator
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To: Bryan
What if he was a (government) stooge and the people he killed were acceptable losses to further the socialization of America ?

As long as we are presenting senerios.

Baby bush has declared "War" and extended the Emergency Powers Act that has been in effect since Roosevelt , giving the president power over the rest of the government. He's covered up for Cheney once and will have to again as information on Halliburton comes out.

Halliburton a construction corporation that Cheney "used" to head will probably be building a pipeline for Unocal a big oil corporation once Afghanistan is "settled". Afghanistan's newly imposed leader "used" to work at Unocal. Appearantly Afghanistan's "vice president" wasn't going to play ball with the oil barons , so he had to be eliminated.

I wonder if the next vice president of Afghanistan will have worked for Unocal ? I won't even get into the drug side of this , but it appears the "War on Terrorism" is being used to secure more profits for American elites and our president is covering for them and himself.

All this as he tries to change the structure of our Government to aid ridding themselves of our Constitution.

Which will be replaced by the UN's constitution.

The UN being another elite tool besides war to push us into world rule.

On February 1, 1992 , president george herbert walker bush (pappa bush) stated: "My vision of a New World Order forsees the UN with a revitalized peacekeeping function. It is the sacred principles enshrined in the UN charter (written by Alger Hiss) to which we henceforth pledge our allegiance."

Alger Hiss was a known Russian spy and CFR member.

It really is a small world.

"The Central Bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the principles and form of our Constitution. I am an enemy to all banks , discounting bills or notes for anything but coin . If the American people allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency , first by inflation and then by deflation , the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

Thomas Jefferson

Over twohundred years ago Thomas Jefferson was able to tell us exactly what would happen if we allowed nongovernment control of our economy.

Which is exactly what happened through the "federal reserve act" in 1913, when foreign investors/banksters took control and we became their economic slaves.

The federal reserve is NOT part of our government and is a privately owned central bank which will consume everything we have , just as Thomas Jefferson foretold.

Federal Reserve

This war on terrorism is just another part of a play , so they can get what they want , EVERYTHING.

No matter how many of us have to die.

Maybe I missed it in our controlled history class , but did American's actually decide to become SHEEP ?

If we did , I'll hold all my comments to Baah Baahhh , then everyone will understand.

7 posted on 07/10/2002 4:54:35 PM PDT by Eustace
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To: Bryan
Lest there be any doubt on how I feel.


Crime? I really don't give a hoot. I think they should all be sent to Allah, post haste!!!

8 posted on 07/10/2002 4:57:03 PM PDT by ImpBill
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To: Lee'sGhost
Agreed, but how do you get that one segment of our society to view it that way? Until they do, law enforcement (government) won't. It might hurt someone's itty bitty feelings!
9 posted on 07/10/2002 5:43:14 PM PDT by dixie sass
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To: Bryan
What is FR defending now? ;^)

MurryMom's continued authorization?

10 posted on 07/10/2002 5:56:46 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: JohnHuang2
I hope you are studying this man's attitude style amigo!!! You've got the verbiage chops, you've got the soul-blessed rhythm ... observing your writing style over the years John I liken your economical and bemused style to Steyn's in a lot of ways. You use a turn of momentum or an engaging phrase instead of ponderous vocabulary, as does Steyn. That's a really neat tool, and believe me, my conjuring of Steyn's patter when I read your best stuff is major props from me friend!

John, the only thing you are lacking is that mean-assed "just back from the pub" 'tude that the Brits and North American wordsmiths employ so often! Whenever Coulter, Steyn, Hitchens, Pruden, O'Rourke or Tyrell(talkin' ponderous vocabulary!) sit down to muse at 20 minutes past boozehole whistle blow ... well, they've got slave interns to sort the genius from the rant. That's our role here friend!

Just don't make me sort during any show that a TV Judge is teaching me about the Constitutional duties of our independendent Judiciary branch! The beyatch threw ALL his romance CDs into the lit fireplace? She's a no good bloodsuckin ho, just like his dogs warned him!!! This one's going to the nine wraiths in DC.

11 posted on 07/10/2002 6:19:30 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: JohnHuang2
Oh oh, it turns out he didn't show up at the hospital to be with her as she delivered his baby because he was getting busy with her no-good sister, in her bed, using her favorite positions. The plaintiff has solidly established his role as a "backstabbin playa". Mitigating evidence?

Law sure is complex, I'm glad we have 2 billion professionals to make it all go away at $150/hour.

12 posted on 07/10/2002 6:35:33 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: Bryan
Boom boom, as they say on the comedy shows

No, "Boom boom (out go the lights)" is what Frank Marino and Mahogany Rush say in soup lines in Oakland these days. Comedy shows on American TV have gay men say something catty and incorrigibly tart about straight men to get the ironic laughter from the exclusively gay male and unsexed female studio audiences they encounter.

13 posted on 07/10/2002 6:46:06 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: ImpBill
I really don't give a hoot. I think they should all be sent to Allah, post haste!!!

I have this image that Allah looks like Fred Sanford's pal Brady. And he'd prefer all his "followers" just walk into the ocean. Zeus and Odin can deal with the bilge.

14 posted on 07/10/2002 6:49:29 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: Eustace
Over twohundred years ago Thomas Jefferson was able to tell us exactly what would happen if we allowed nongovernment control of our economy.

Sure he did! Jefferson knew he was a bloviating tsunami of crap, just like everyone else. They were all philosopher kings, then they heckled each other and got down to the dirty, frustrating, pragmatic business of designing THE perfect masterpiece of human government. "Well, I didn't trust the Massachussets beast servicers" ... "We put that in because all the Georgians are servicing their Goat Gods in the blessing of Pan." "I think Rutledge is a drunken sodomizer ... but he has an ugly side as well .... ". "I think Franklin just soiled the entire second row of our Assembly with his urine!" "Jefferson is fond of aged Moorish men and he's likely off in pursuit" "Adams adores his nephews over and over and over". That's our legacy.

15 posted on 07/10/2002 7:01:11 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: Bryan
If you do a global word search on all historical accounts of Islam ... I'm going out on the limb ... but I'm going to predict that the words "attack", "war", "conquer", "massacre", "kill", "rule", "battle", "death", "destroy", "revenge", "blood" "contol", "convert", "unbeliever", and "army" appear more often than "plant", "grow",
"build", "design", "develop", "think", "invent", "free", "vote", "read", "write", "tolerate", "defend","learn", "peace", "live" and "commerce".
16 posted on 07/10/2002 7:28:28 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: Bryan
"...ordinarily pious Muslims do not think it right to murder complete strangers"

Perhaps, Mark, but they are suspiciously supportive of those who do.

17 posted on 07/10/2002 9:26:11 PM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: ArneFufkin
To say nothing of "jihad" and "fatwa".

Oh that's right. "Jihad" just means "struggle"--just like "Kampf" in German. It doesn't necessarily mean "murder", "kill", "war", and "death".

18 posted on 07/10/2002 9:30:29 PM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: Bryan
A favorite Mark Steyn quote:
"to demonstrate that we eschew 'racial profiling', we go out of our way to look for people who don't look anything like the people we're looking for."

19 posted on 07/10/2002 9:34:06 PM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: Bryan
Thanks for the bump Bryan.
20 posted on 07/10/2002 9:48:37 PM PDT by dixie sass
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To: ArneFufkin
The US government was never designed to be a utopian ideal, it was designed to be a mangled mess, with so many different factions fighting on so many fronts that none of them would ever accomplish anything, so the rest of us could get on with our lives without interference.
21 posted on 07/10/2002 9:53:53 PM PDT by jdege
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To: Savage Beast; a_Turk
That's the great lie of the "Islam is Peace" propaganda.

Yeah, you have peace if you bow to Islam!!! Peace ain't freedom, and peace might be interrupted by your Islamic court execution at any random time. But, if you are a native Muslim ... Muhammed says Allah does not NECESSARILY sentence you to death.

If you choose to stay connected to Jesus Christ or the Torah? Call the ACLU, there goes your head infidel!

That is what is so corrupt about guys like Zogby. I don't CARE what the Qur'an says about female freedom or racial enlightenment. That was the bait and switch by a pretty clever huckster/conquerer named Muhammed. You have to draw bees to the honey, but you need to keep them hurtling from the hive in stinging, killing frenzy too. So ... Islam is sweet for Muslims and women's freedom, so says Muhammed. But ... Islam is darkly vengeful against nonbelievers who insult Allah's will. Y'know, after all these years ... the women don't have rights and Muslim's are really vengeful. And women just seem to keep insulting Allah's will ... that ever acne scarred Arab teenager has carte blanche to sexually assault a woman, whereafter she is shamefully stained, and must be executed.

I don't like Islam. I don't like Muhammed. I don't like anyone who says ... "You must think as me or I will kill you". Allah says that through the prophet/soldier/rapist/mass murderer Muhammed. Fuck you Muhammed, and same to you Allah. And it is time for all these guys like A_turk who are lecturing us on our ignorance to step up and grab the big dildo. Are you Americans ... or are you Muslims?

Islam is in DIRECT contravertion to our American Constitution. Islam commands it's followers to view our difference, our disbelief in Allah and Muhammed's orders, and therefore kill us. Kill non-Muslims. Islam is an enemy of the tenets of America. Would we permit a KKK order that commanded the death of all who did not worship a particular angel or passage from the Old Testament. F**k no, that Garcia druid would be storming thier townhouse with guns drawn and CNN at their side. It is no coincidence that the systematic portrayal of Islam as a peaceful force accompanied the spread of Communist operatives into academia and media after 1945. They are hand in hand my friend.

That's the issue Savage Beast. Muslims live very contently and peacefully among us until they murder our innocent neighbors. At your feet, or at your throat ... that about sizes it up IMO.

22 posted on 07/10/2002 10:00:18 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: jdege
This is a system designed by elitists who did not like or trust ANYONE, and desired protection from the ill intent of their colleagues at the Convention. That's primal ... and the way they solved it was an epipheny. Ying ... meet Yang. He's got some false ID and a welfare check for you! ;^)

I can confidently say that NOBODY on FR could walk up to Alexander Hamilton if he was transported into an East Village bistro tonight, say "Hi", and judging his fellowship and warmth not think "I'd like to cold-cock that asshole". Kinda like meeting Mojo or Clodia Pulcher. These were not humble and friendly people. If Freepers were on the Philly secret conspiracy scene at that time ... we'd break up the vile scheme. Guaranteed! Wisely as usual! LOL If so, my descendents would be moderately successful racoon skin brokers right now. It's 2002, someone invent the outhouse already!!!!

This was not a boys club of regular Joe overachievers. They wouldn't have the time of day for we riff raffers. Asshole lawyers, most learned their stuff in France. Double Trouble! Wohhhhh ....

God blessed them all! As HE did us!

23 posted on 07/10/2002 10:22:17 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: ArneFufkin; Savage Beast
Are you Americans ... or are you Muslims?
Are you family ... or are you automobiles?

Are you walking ... or are you alive?

Are you ignorant ... or are you just stupid?

What good is all this? You (I hope) and I are peaceloving people, whatever our religion. What benefit will it bring to anyone to try to demean each other? Is that not what Usame would like us to do? Must we allow this idiot Usame to curse us with mutual hatred?

Bums me out everytime I read this nonsence.

And here's my opinion on terrorism vs hate crimes: They're one in the same.

24 posted on 07/10/2002 10:38:05 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: a_Turk
I'm Irish Catholic in ethinc and religious backgroun.d But I identify myself as an American.

If the IRA was in the act of blowing up my neigbors and countrymates, I'd kill them without a pause. Even though I'm Irish, I'm Catholic, and my ancestors were brutalized and killed by the Cromwell English mobsters.

So what? I'm an American. I would step up and fight until death ANY Irish Catholc who wished my country harm. Now. Unequivocally. I would stand at the side of any American Protestant Brit native who is under seige. I'm an American. It's not a hesitation for me.

What's your story?

25 posted on 07/10/2002 10:44:40 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: a_Turk
See, I don't belive most American Muslims consider themselves Americans first.

My bigotry.

26 posted on 07/10/2002 10:46:17 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: ArneFufkin
My wisdom and ongoing care. I'm sick of lectures from "peaceful" and "enlightened" Muslims.

If Turkey is a targeted enemy of Al Qai'da and other Islamist groups ... why isn't your nation conducting it's own search and destroy operation against your enemies?

Turkey processed a lot of morphine base coming from your dire enemy Taliban from 1995-1999. TALIBAN???? Well, the base went for a good cause. Heroin products, I do believe. Right through Iran, and now through Georgia.

When you Turks go out on your own search and destroy mission against these forces that wish you death and destruction, I'll start believing your patter. All I see is commercial lovey dovey in the 90s with Iran and the Taliban monsters. Take your lectures elsewhere pal.

27 posted on 07/10/2002 10:53:09 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: ArneFufkin
I am a Turkish and German Muslim. I hold both passports. I entered the US on a student visa when I was 17. This was my parents decision (German mom musical gymnastics professor, Turkish dad engineer), to spare me the terror in Turkey. Universities were especially affected.

Anyway, I was going to school, until a few years later I fell in love. We got married. She is a Catholic. She wanted to get married in a church, which did not bother me. We have two children together.

I never applied for citizenship, I felt that would be solid proof that I did not marry for that purpose. Now she's left me for another man, and I am Mr. mom. She's on the back seat of some guys Harley, living it up.

I could just take my kids and leave, but that would not be fair to them. They need to see her has often as possible.

As far as my loyalties, they lie with the righteous. And with my children... America stands for the same ideals that I do, and she's been kind to me. Had I been in one of those planes, the terrorists would have had to cut me up. Had I been standing next to the guy at LAX (fitting acronym), I would have done what I could to neutralize him. What more can I tell you?

When I was a kid growing up, terror was a tool used by the nationalists (USA money) and the communists (USSR money). The cold war was being fought even in my street. My parents still have pieces of shrapnel. No little bitty pieces, either: parts of inch thick bomb casing and stuff.. That was over 20 years ago. I've seen my share of this, which is so new to you. You're right to be angry, but focus it. Don't swing around blindly.
28 posted on 07/10/2002 11:09:10 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: ArneFufkin
You are impatient and you run your mouth. Both bad habits you should break.
29 posted on 07/10/2002 11:11:36 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: a_Turk
Turk, here's the cutting edge

The first tenet of your religion is "There is only one God, and Muhammed is his prophet."

NO SALE. I don't buy it Turk. A central dogma of Islam is that the worship of Jesus Christ as the Son of God is the most evil and sacriligious of all insults to Allah. Turk ... I believe Jesus Christ IS the Son of God, and he came to Earth and died for my human sin.

So, by ISLAM tenets ... what is my fate? What is your calling Turk? What is your command? What does YOUR current teacher, interpreting the Arabic Qur'an his convenient way .... say today? What will a different Mullah say next year? If your new spiritual leader interprets the Qur'an's commands to conquer, convert or kill the "unbelievers" as the holy law it most OBVIOUSLY IS... what WILL YOU DO?

Islam is a poison because it is malleable by every scoundrel and butcher who desires power and murder. Muhammed designed it to inspire forceful conquest. He had many "revelations" from Gabriel the night after his military forces were maximized. Islam is a tool of death, oppression, enslavement and murder. Like Nazism. Like Communism.

That's my take con man.

30 posted on 07/10/2002 11:17:49 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: a_Turk
As far as my loyalties, they lie with the righteous. And with my children...

As expected. Eff you pal!!!! No Muslim is trustworthy.

31 posted on 07/10/2002 11:25:49 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: ArneFufkin
There is only one God, and Muhammed is his prophet.
You've already a convert to Monotheism, so to you the words might have said "and Muhammed is one of His prophets."
So, by ISLAM tenets ... what is my fate?
The Messiah is an important figure in our religion, even more important than the prophet Muhammed. The nonbelievers you mention were the idol worshippers who persecuted Muhammed for preaching about Moses and Jesus, and the one God we both believe in.

You musn't be so insulting toward me, since I haven't done anything to you, and never would unless you were to force me to defend myself or another who did not deserve your hypothetical assault.
32 posted on 07/10/2002 11:26:16 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: ArneFufkin
Eff you pal!!!!
How old are you? Isn't it past your bed time? Quick! Before mommy notices that you didn't brush your teeth!
33 posted on 07/10/2002 11:28:32 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: a_Turk
Your wife better be sleeping with one eye open. Your God commands you to kill her.
34 posted on 07/10/2002 11:31:25 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: ArneFufkin
Your God commands you to kill her.
Public stonings are ancient custom.

It's not my job to judge her.

Mine is the God of Abraham. My religion provides for divorce.
35 posted on 07/10/2002 11:35:07 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: a_Turk
You and I have different faith. Your prophet is different that mine. Your God has differwnt characteristics and identity than mine. Bless us both. You are a man taking care of your wife and children. I respect and admire that beyond words.

There's an ugly truth here however: My faith in Jesus Christ as Savior allows tolerance of your religious beliefs. My nation, my Constitution, mandates tolerance of your religious beliefs. My belief in Christ calls me to feel nothing but good will for you and your family.

The fundamental dogma of YOUR religion ... calls you to convert, kill and destroy the unbelievers. Me. My family. My neighgbors. My Freeper pals. My countrymates. My World.

You may deceive yourself in your virtuous journey to build a peaceful and enlightened prospretity for you family. Damn right you should!! That's what honorable men do for their children. America values that. America values you. But your religion is an isidious enemy of everything America stands for. Your religion calls for you to kill me.

You say you will do what is "righteous" .... I would never trust you watching my back. I couldn't insult a man more. Sorry.

36 posted on 07/11/2002 12:06:01 AM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: ArneFufkin
Your religion calls for you to kill me.
You're wrong it does not.
37 posted on 07/11/2002 8:44:35 AM PDT by a_Turk
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To: ArneFufkin

The fundamental dogma of YOUR religion ... calls you to convert, kill and destroy the unbelievers. Me. My family. My neighgbors. My Freeper pals. My countrymates. My World.

You're going to have to learn, some day, the difference between Islam and Wahhabi extremism.

Christianity has its extremist groups, and has had times when the extremists controlled.

When at Beziers, the Christian Army asked the Papal Legate, Arnald-Amalric, how to distinguish the heretical Cathars from their more numerous Catholic neighbors, his reply was "kill them all - God will recognize his own".

Islam is not our enemy - an extremist islamic philosophy is, and those who hold to it. Just as Germany was not our enemy, but Nazism and its followers, and Russia was not, but the Communist doctrine and the nomenklatura.

38 posted on 07/11/2002 9:28:06 AM PDT by jdege
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To: jdege
I think you're full of shit, and I'm not open to your lectures. Islam is in direct opposition to our Constitution and heritage.

Now what?

39 posted on 07/11/2002 10:56:14 AM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: ArneFufkin

Now what?

You'll learn better, in time, or you'll remain ignorant.

In either case, it's your problem, not mine.

40 posted on 07/11/2002 11:09:36 AM PDT by jdege
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To: jdege
You'll learn better, in time, or you'll remain ignorant. In either case, it's your problem, not mine.

No problem here. Islam is war, murder, rape, oppression, intolerance, enslavement and conquest. From the Qur'an and from the History books, this is aa "religion of piece ... of crap". Blow smoke up someone elses arse, Islam sucks and the World would be far better off if it was gone. It's an insult to human enlightenment and inspiration.

41 posted on 07/12/2002 7:24:05 AM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: ArneFufkin; jdege; a_Turk
I've just noticed this stuff and I really must object. Like Islam, Christianity has had its share of fanatics who wanted to kill all the "infidels." The only difference between our religion and theirs, in that regard, is that it hasn't happened to ours for a few hundred years.

Consider the Spanish Inquisition and the Salem witch hunts.
42 posted on 07/14/2002 5:28:15 PM PDT by Bryan
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To: Bryan
43 posted on 07/15/2002 4:20:39 PM PDT by FReethesheeples
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