Bush will win on Immigration to save the Republican Party.

[Pukin Dog]

Just a little dose of reality for some of you going nuts over the Immigration issue, because there is NO chance that you will win on the border enforcement issue. No chance whatsoever. Only after a migrant worker program passes, making most of these illegal aliens legal, is there any chance at all to have meaningful border enforcement.

Bush is not running for office anymore, but the Republican Congress is in need of a big victory in November. This issue will kill our chances to maintain the majority, and knowing that, Bush will likely veto any bill making illegal immigration a felony, if that bill does not include the migrant worker program (call it amnesty if you want) needed to hold onto Business and Hispanic support for the Republican Party.

The Illegal Immigration Genie is out of the bottle, folks. You can’t stuff her back in without losing the House and/or Senate in November. Pragmatic minds will rule in the end, and that is a bitter pill you best swallow now.

FReepers can’t will elections for the Republican Party, but we sure can go a long way towards losing them, if we can’t put our common sense ahead of our passions on this issue. I live in San Diego County, and I see the problems with illegal immigration on a daily basis.

Whether you like it or not, much of the commerce of this country does depend on these folks to do jobs that Americans won’t do for the prevailing wage.

So, you have a choice, you can demand the border enforcement bills on their own, or you can swallow hard and consider everything you will lose if we turn off 10-15% of the electorate, in addition to the business community that depends on these workers. Yeah, they broke the law, and so do the people who hire them.

So what?

Yeah, I said it, SO WHAT? The time to be worried about that was when there were REAL Republican majorities in the Border States. It is too late now. This is a problem that cannot be solved, but only managed.

It is possible to be right and stupid at the same time. Pete Wilson tried this a few years ago, got all kinds of support for it. It passed, and Pete Wilson is gone. Then a judge overturned it anyway. That is exactly what you can expect to happen with these current bills as well. Some judge will put an injunction on enforcement, but by the time that happens, we will be knee-deep into impeachment proceeding under a Democrat Congress.

Bush won’t let that happen, neither will smarter members of the Senate and House. You won’t win, you can’t win, but you can shoot yourself and the Republican party in the head (even if you are not a member) by pursuing a program that does not include amnesty or whatever you want to call it.

We lost this one.

Get over it. There are bigger battles ahead.

[Siena Dreaming]

Give a fine of $5ooo pre day per illegal and a minimum of 5 years in prison

Right...and you will raise my taxes to enforce this and say a tax hike is worth it. I don't agree a tax hike is the solution.

[Liberty Valance]

Alan Greenspan,
former chairman of the Federal Reserve Board.

---

"Immigration, if we choose to expand it, could lessen the decline of labor force growth in the United States. As the influx of foreign workers that occurred in response to the tight labor markets of the 1990s demonstrated, U.S. immigration does respond to evolving economic conditions. But to fully offset the effects of the decline in fertility, immigration would have to be much larger than almost all current projections assume."

Alan Greenspan, at a symposium sponsored by the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City, August 27 2004

"To assume that productivity can continue to accelerate to rates well above the current underlying pace would be a stretch, even for our very dynamic economy. So, short of a major increase in immigration, economic growth cannot be safely counted upon to eliminate deficits and the difficult choices that will be required to restore fiscal discipline."

Alan Greenspan, during testimony at the U.S. Senate. Feb. 11, 2003.

[surely_you_jest]

That is if they can survive the ass-whippin they are going to get in the coming weeks from the Senate and White House. Minds will be changed. Tancredo will be on his own shortly.

You seriously oversestimate the ability of the White House to do any ass-whippin' these days. Now that the House of Reps is within about 7 months of an election, and the GOP members are beginning to run scared, Dubya doesn't very much juice left. And he pissed most of that away on Harriet Miers and the Dubai Ports thing.

[investigateworld]

(Scratching old gray head)

Wasn't it you Dog that copped out to using illegals to do some landscaping on your properties?

[calex59]

Why don't you look it up. It is a fact and no one can deny it. If you choose to, to bad. You are simply burying your head in the sand. Don't rely on me to do your work for you. Look your own statistics up, they are on record and easy to find. But, of course you won't look it up because you don't want to know the truth!

[Pukin Dog]

You are advocating for inaction

I am not advocating inaction.

I am advocating common sense.

[Flavius Josephus]

I think you could get support for a Constitutional Amendment to get rid of the anchor babies. That's what it's going to take to be sure some court doesn't overrule it. We can pass the Right-To-Life (for babies, the handicapped, sick, and elderly) at the same convention.

[zook]

When you pull out a statistic and claim it to be a fact, then you're under some obligation to at least state where you got it from. That's all I ask.

[Pukin Dog]

Yeah, and I will do it again. The illegals are not going anywhere soon, so we had best learn to live with them.

[lfod1776]

"Whether you like it or not, much of the commerce of this country does depend on these folks to do jobs that Americans won’t do for the prevailing wage."

Then let the prevailing wage rise until Americans will do the job. In my town the garbage is collected by Americans, and they support their American families with their honest labor.

Either we control our borders, or we no longer have a nation.

[colorado tanker]

thank you very much kool-aid drinkers

50,000 turned out here last weekend. I'll buy you a Ruth's Chris dinner, and something stronger than Kool-Aid, if you could get 10% of that, 5,000, to show up for your position.

What you propose is to round up at least 11,000,000 people, Elian-style, and incarcerate them for a "felony." People will fight for their livelihoods, homes and families. In contrast, I find almost no-one who votes the single-issue anti-immigrant ticket. It couldn't even win an open Republican primary in a Republican congressional district.

[jla]

Yeah? So?

It was merely an observation, I wasn't being judgmental.

What I hope happens, is that after Bush wins on this, angry FReepers will finally wake up to the notion that we do not reflect popular opinion. Whether we like it or not, the country is a lot more moderate than we are.

I think most Americans would say that they are against illegal immigrants, and those Mexican illegals are getting the attention because of their numbers and Mexico's proximity to our border.
There will always be certain factions who will turn a blind eye at the issue though. For example, a lot of Americans of Irish descent think it's ok if Irish are here illegally, but illegal Irish are few in comparison so nobody really notices them.

It is still a Conservative country for the most part, but it does not reflect the overall Conservative prevailing view. This issue should prove that once and for all, and when it does, I'll be whipping out my "I told you so" list yet again.

What is, in your opinion, the prevailing conservative view and that of the rest of the country?

Many of your posts seem to be motivated by the potential opportunity for you to later say "I told you so". Why is this? (now I am being judgmental).

[Junior_G]

You fight your battles at a time that best insures a positive outcome.

And how many more illegal immigrants would you like to allow into the country before it is time to do that? Or do you define "positive outcome" as the loss of the southwestern United States?

[Pukin Dog]

PUKIN NEEDS GROCERIES. BACK IN 90 MINUTES.

BRING IT ON!

[packrat35]

I would rather see all democrats in office than see this pass and I never vote for a D.

[taxed2death]

"how do you propose getting rid of 20 million people????, where do you hold them, how do you transport them???"

Strictly enforce existing laws pertaining to hiring of illegals and they will self deport. No work. No free ride. Time to go home to their turd world countries and demand political changes there.

No brainer.

[Marine Inspector]

Your solution won't work either.

Unless their is immigration enforcement to make business's hire American citizens, illegals will always underbid the citizen for the job.

[Liberty Valance]

President George W. Bush

---

"Family values do not stop at the Rio Grande. If you're a mother and father with hungry children, you are going to try to put food on the table. That's reality. That's called love."

Responding to voters at a town hall meeting that were calling for draconian measures against immigration. South Carolina 2000 Presidential Campaign.

"Latinos come to the US to seek the same dreams that have inspired millions of others: they want a better life for their children. Family values do not stop at the Rio Grande. Latinos enrich our country with faith in God, a strong ethic of work, community & responsibility. We can all learn from the strength, solidarity, & values of Latinos. Immigration is not a problem to be solved, it is the sign of a successful nation. New Americans are to be welcomed as neighbors and not to be feared as strangers."

Speech in Washington, D.C. Jun 26, 2000

"America has never been united by blood or birth or soil. We are bound by ideals that move us beyond our backgrounds, lift us above our interests and teach us what it means to be citizens. Every child must be taught these principles. Every citizen must uphold them. And every immigrant, by embracing these ideals, makes our country more, not less, American."

Inaugural Address, Jan 20, 2001

"We hear claims that immigrants are somehow bad for the economy, even though this economy could not function without them. All these are forms of economic retreat, and they lead in the same direction, toward a stagnant and second-rate economy."

"Keeping America competitive requires an immigration system that upholds our laws, reflects our values, and serves the interests of our economy. Our Nation needs orderly and secure borders. To meet this goal, we must have stronger immigration enforcement and border protection. And we must have a rational, humane guest worker program that rejects amnesty … allows temporary jobs for people who seek them legally … and reduces smuggling and crime at the border."

State of the Union Address, Jan 31, 2006

[zook]

"I think you could get support for a Constitutional Amendment to get rid of the anchor babies. "

You mean to change the Constitution so that you can't claim citizenship unless you're born here of legal parents? Oh, sure you could get support--from about 20% of the public.

I'd never support such an amendment and I don't think it will ever come to pass.

[markman46]

not anymore they don't live within 100 miles of the border, check out the midwest ag areas, meat packing plants, they all have "migrants" working, minnesota, Iowa, etc... To bad Congress does not have the guts to pass a reform bill, and have the $$$/will to enforce it