Consider it done.
Posted on 09/08/2005 9:18:53 AM PDT by dukeman
As usual, the moonbats on DU are more tuned in and simply know more than the rest of us. Today's exhibit is their speculations about who (Bush) breached New Orleans' levees and how it was done. They know they're correct. They just need their "evidence."
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spooked911 (1000+ posts) Wed Sep-07-05 04:53 PM
Original message
DOES ANYONE KNOW ANY DETAILS ON WHAT EXACTLY BLEW THE LEVEES?
I can't get any info on when and what did it.
This is such critical info and it is just not being reported. The best I've seen was an NPR report that said water washed over the canal side and weakened the foundations. But that seems kind of lame. Were there reports that the storm surge did it?
IF THE ONLY BREAKS WERE IN THE CANALS, WHY WEREN'T THEY CLOSED OFF? WHY WASN'T SOMEONE MANAGING THE FLOOD CONTROL BETTER? WHY WASN'T THE BREAK SEALED IMMEDIATELY?
How do we even know it wasn't terrorism?
enid602 (572 posts) Wed Sep-07-05 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. levees
Hopefully, they did not 'pancake' straight down, or appear to observers to be controlled demolitions.
spooked911 (1000+ posts) Wed Sep-07-05 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Exactly. Do you smell a rat too?
enid602 (572 posts) Wed Sep-07-05 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. unshockable
At this point, I consider myself unshockable.
libertypirate (1000+ posts) Wed Sep-07-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
33. Yes but this implosion could have been done with high pressure hose and water...
halsaxby (73 posts) Wed Sep-07-05 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
54. Although I believe 9/11 was a classic MIHOP.... I think that the immediate cause of the tragedy in NO is simply excessive hydrostatic pressure. However, I don't think that we should ignore the fact that BushCo gutted the Army Corps of Engineer's budgets, which might have prevented this disaster.
Land Shark (755 posts) Wed Sep-07-05 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. Needs investigation; note the history of dynamiting levees IN LOUISIANA and, the history of shooting on sight those who might be fixin to do that. Sheds some light on the news, don't it?
IDea is, water is legally known as the "common enemy" and diverting it one way to keep it from going another is as old as the hills.
Land Shark (755 posts) Wed Sep-07-05 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
63. yeah, history can be pretty important, esp. the history of levees
when you're talking about levees.
And, when you're debating whether levees were intentionally breached in Louisiana, I find (in my experience) that the history regarding the intentional breach of levees in Louisiana is pretty important.
Am I going out too far on a limb here?
Is the immediate past history of dynamiting levees IN LOUISIANA too tinfoil for people to handle as one of many leads worth investigating in a scientific and forensic pursuit of truth? Nobody would ever wish anyone in the US harm, right? So we can rule out all theories of intentionality from the get go, right?
ignatius 2 (778 posts) Wed Sep-07-05 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #63
76. OMG, the St.Bernard Parish was buried under 30 feet of water after the dynamiting of the levees..the people received $300...
I woke up last night,couldn't sleep, and began thinking of NO.
I had heard rumors that the levee had been intentionally broken to save the "wealthy" part of town. I could not get that off my mind.
FEMA cut emergency phone lines,per Mr Broussard on MTP Sunday am,not allowing the emergency workers from the parrish to pick up diesel fuel from the coast guard,FEMA not allowing the Red Cross in.
Then I thought about the story of the men on the bridge who were killed. Had they seen something they were not supposed to see?
Maybe that is where Cheney has been, co-ordinating this,working on getting Bush impeached for his obvious negligence, so that he can finally rule the universe.
CabalPowered (217 posts) Wed Sep-07-05 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. I remember prior to the flooding someone mentioned that the levees had dynamite built into them. I haven't verified that but certainly read it at DU prior to landfall. I also read a post after the flood that I think linked to a NOLA indymedia post about dynamite being used to blow one levee. I don't think it was substantiated with any other info.
undergroundpanther (1000+ posts) Wed Sep-07-05 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. Leveees
THis link says it was just transformers blowing up.. But it admits something BLEW.. which could be damming IF a blowing transformer can blow up a Levee..?? I dunno
http://judicial-inc.biz/katrina.htm
However you all know about controlled explosions? the charges can be installed into a building or a Leveee and left in place a detonated from a long distance by remote at the right time.Suspicious...
I do not know the answer.. but I do not think it's impossible for sociopathic people like the ones running this country to NOT do it.They enjoy and get pleasure from suffering and disasters.Remember they torture people and think it's ok that Iraqi kids get raped.These people are depraved.So judging by thier charater yeah they probably blew up the Levees.
I also got this in my email from one of my freinds recently.It's not proof it just means the question is being asked and to me no questions should be "taboo" if you REALLY want to find THE real answers.
The rumor in the superdome and the convention center circulating by the people who were hearded like cattle was that part of the levy was left unfinnished on purpose and another part was blown up so there would be an overflow into he poor sections as to get them out and never let them back in again. and ya know what they were right.
don`t forget to watch Opra`s special show this week at 4pm EST on Katrina.
KoKo01 (1000+ posts) Wed Sep-07-05 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. And, there's always the possibility of this guy:
[photo]
(But I think the weather guy's explanation is more credible)
b]Bush 2000 Florida recount aides were rewarded with top FEMA
Reversing an eight-year crusade to rid the now-embattled Federal Emegency Management Agency of political patronage, a newly elected George W. Bush in 2001 named two key players in his Florida recount fight to important FEMA posts.
Neither man, Jacksonville attorney Reynold Hoover (pictured at left) and Miami lawyer Mark Wallace, had any experience in emergency management before they were named by the Bush administration to FEMA, now under fire for its botched response to Hurricane Katrina.
Hoover, a longtime "explosives expert" with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms who became a lawyer in 1996, is still with FEMA as its director of national security coordination. Wallace left the Bush administration in 2004 to become deputy manager of the president's re-election campaign, and is now a lobbyist
[I don't think we need to look any further, do we?]
seemslikeadream (1000+ posts) Wed Sep-07-05 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. I just spoke to a good friend who has lots of family in New Orleans - some still unaccounted for. I trust him completely and we were discussing the awful news that keeps coming out about what has happened in New Orleans. I remarked that we probably hadn't heard the worst of it. He said, "I'll tell you the worst thing I've heard and I heard it from my mother. She said she heard several blasts - big booms - right before the levees broke. Several blasts and then all the water came pouring in." He went on to say that several people have told him this same thing. This is the story going round from the people who were there.
Taxloss (1000+ posts) Wed Sep-07-05 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. The levees are/were concrete walls supported by earth banks.
The earth banks were washed away by the storm; the walls failed. The funny thing is, it is actually EASIER to destroy a levee this way than to blow it up because and earth bank is excellent blast protection, as any designer of air raid shelters will tell you.
seemslikeadream (1000+ posts) Wed Sep-07-05 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. And you were there?
Taxloss (1000+ posts) Wed Sep-07-05 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. No, I wasn't, and neither were you.
But that doesn't change the design of the levees - concrete walls, earth banks. Hard to blow up. Very hard. But in a cat 4 hurricane, the earth can be washed away by the storm and by overtopping.
seemslikeadream (1000+ posts) Wed Sep-07-05 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. So now you are an expert on my whereabouts and American levees?
["The sky is blue."
"No it isn't!
"How do you know? As a DUer, you live in your parents' basement, so how would YOU know what color the sky is?"
"You're a freeper!"
"I know you are, but what am I?".....]
tx_dem41 (1000+ posts) Wed Sep-07-05 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
25. I grew up in New Orleans and still have family there....it happened..
exactly as they always described it could. Water washing over the levee, thus destabilizing the integrity of the levee.
When you're under sea level, you can't "shut off" a canal.
[Now this sort of rational thinking just won't do. Tombstone him!]
Land Shark (755 posts) Wed Sep-07-05 07:47 PM
Original message
actually the nontinfoil hatters are often the MOST illogical of all...
virtually ANY OLD PLAUSIBLE EXPLANATION will be enough to get them to MOVE ON.
When an investigation needs to be done. Consider all possibilities. weight all evidence.
when any plausible excuse is enough, you'd rarely get a conviction in any criminal case. There's always Smutherdude (he commits a lot of crimes). Hey, it coulda been. It's PLAUSIBLE.
SOme plausible innocent theories. Some other theories. The actual history of dynamiting LA levees. The first baby steps in an investigation, we don't know who's right.
But a lot of you KNOW what's right just by doing the tinfoil hat litmus test.
C'mon. Get all the facts.
ignatius 2 (778 posts) Wed Sep-07-05 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #68
78. You know,after 9-11 in the beginning, any of us who asked questions,gave theories that wasn't the BUSHBOTS line,were called nutcase,tin foil hatters,conspiracy nuts.etc..etc..etc,ad nauseum.
Much of what was discussed in those days by the so-called nuts now many people believe as well.
Only a fool or a troll would try to stop discussions on this or any issue involving Bush and his minions. These people lied to start a war that has killed thousands,they did nothing despite so very much pre 9-11 evidence,,they are not to be trusted. If you don't like these questions now being asked, why don't you ignore them instead of calling those who are rightfully suspicious tin foil fools ?
Perhaps this was a disaster caused only by mother nation, but then again, maybe there is something else going on.
alcibiades_mystery (1000+ posts) Wed Sep-07-05 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. Discuss away
I still get to think you're a fool, though. See how free speech works?
bassman79 (131 posts) Wed Sep-07-05 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
41. C-4
ProfessorGAC (1000+ posts) Wed Sep-07-05 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #41
52. Ever Seen C-4 Explode?
I have. There would be no doubt if it were C-4. If you haven't seen or heard the detonation of an HX, you might want to consider your opinion more carefully.
The Professor
chicagiana (722 posts) Wed Sep-07-05 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #52
74. Have you seen what water does to evidence ...
Any evidence from such an explosion would have been washed away.
If the engineers seem to think the high water is enough to weaken the structure, that's good enough for me. I know damn well what happens once you get ANY leak in a water barrier. The equation for water pressure tells the story all too clearly.
However, I still wouldn't put it beyond the BFEE to tip things over once they're unstable. They were callous enough to ignore this disaster. And then they were callous enough to actively prevent aid from reaching the victims. Now the coverup is on the way in full force.
Technowitch (1000+ posts) Wed Sep-07-05 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
83. Locking
Answer: Because we can't prove it wasn't aliens or mole-people, either.
The levees broke because (1) level 4 hurricane and (2) deliberate Bush Administration and Republican-controlled Congressional underfunding and malfeasance. Calm down already.
-Technowitch
DU Moderator
DOES ANYONE KNOW ANY DETAILS ON WHAT EXACTLY BLEW THE LEVEES?
Uhhhhh......Monica Lewinsky trying out her new kneepads??
Busy little beavers, ain't they?
I heard they're off next to California to place explosives along the San Andreas so Bush set off an earthquake and kill the gays in San Fran.
Hurricane Katrina had a CAT. 5 SURGE* winds went down but the SURGE didn't. There was NO WAY this wouldn't have breached the levee. The canal levee was the weakest part of the levee** which is where the breaches occurred. Fact is this SURGE was just like a TSUNAMI, extremely POWERFUL. Those are the facts. Anything else proves the ABSOLUTE IGNORANCE of that crowd. In fact, through thoughts I've come to the conclusion this group of folks are NO DIFFERENT than THE MSM.
Posted back to me here at FR: **"I went to college in New Orleans some years ago. The canals were generally known to be the weaker parts of the system, especially in regard to Lake Pontchartrain. Even a casual view of the levees made clear that the river levees were far more substantial than those on the canals.
Many of the Black neighborhoods had older residents who remembered past floods and had a sense of their relative vulnerability. What they did not usually recognize was that a full break in the canal levees would be far worse than times when water simply surged over the levee and overwhelmed the pumps.
Nor did many understand that, for reasons of river delta geology, the entire city is sinking at a rate of about a foot a decade and that past floods were a poor guide to current dangers. I am sure that many died wondering why the water kept rising beyond its maximum in the worst flooding in living memory."
I bookmarked it and made a mental note to return once the steaming pile of conspiracy had attracted enough flies (the replies are funnier that way). Unfortunately, the DU moderators blocked the thread. No dice.
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It was that damn Rumsfeld and his prototype levee-bustin' death ray. |
Ever since the existence of HAARP became public, a number of independent researchers have warned the operation has a secret agenda including weather modification, mind control, hi-tech military experiments, and the triggering of earthquakes. Alarmingly, HAARP technology appears well suited to enforce a host of the oppressive goals and agendas of the New World Order. HAARP transmissions may also be used for the detection and monitoring of electromagnetic or “plasma” phenomena, precursors of seismic activity and tectonic movement. Researchers believe HAARP transmissions are actually being used to activate or trigger exactly the same electromagnetic conditions that can cause tectonic movement.Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...LOL!
Hey! Don't try to confuse the DUers with the facts.
Uh-oh! You'd better draw your shades and watch the door. You know too much! :-)
Heard (the Corp of Eng?) found at least one [large] barge on the wrong side of a levee break.
That'd do it if it was rammed against that wall, loaded & under force.
"Uhhhhh...Monica Lewinsky trying out her new kneepads??"
Oh geshhhh.
That's good for minimally 50 Hail Marys & 100 Rosaries.
For lying.
Everyone knows even the Peppery Pepperpot's mouth ain't *that* big.
...judging only by who she serviced. :o)
WHY WASN'T THE BREAK SEALED IMMEDIATELY?
Has a DUmmie ever worked a day in their life? Have they ever lifted a finger in manual labor? For that matter, have they ever been outside? They come up with their theories, but never having been in the real world, they can only make guesses as to how it works.
Good point! Most of their "solutions" to various problems require unrealistic facts or scenarios. Everything can happen instantly and at little cost. Does this come from watching too much TV all of one's life?
I've been waiting for this to start. It was only a matter of time before the moonbats went off the cliff like lemmings on this.
Same old Mantra. Just keep repeating the same outrageous lie as if its a fact. The New Orleans Levee board had 2 Billion in Federal Funds available to improve the Levees, but instead focused on building Golf Courses and Condo projects, etc. I really wish the Federal govt had more control over it, since now its going to cost us taxpayers at least 200 Billion in the short term. We'll be paying for their incompetence and corruption for the rest of our lives...
I heard (hate to sound like a DUer, here) that each levee has its own governing board and that these budgets have long been a trough from which people feed. Do the golf courses and condos also account for the loss of wetlands which I understand tends to exacerbate the effect of storm surge?
You heard correct. The 'boards' are the political mechanisms by which the patronage (aka payoff) gravy is ladled.
Corruption taken to an art form.
The DU exchange(s)- hilarious....until reality reminds me that those are real people!!
Then the exchanges become scary ....
Hate to bother you again but got a link??? This is a great companion piece to the one about the Bush Administration creating the cat 4 hurricane just like the "cloud seeding at Woodstock."
I bookmark these when I first find them and then check back to see how they've "fermented." This bookmark is already deleted, but I'll see if I can find it. How are you using these? Any good stories?
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