Posted on 02/16/2006 8:36:01 PM PST by zagor-te-nej
The Srebrenica operation was planned so that Bosnian Serb forces were positioned in a shape of a horseshoe, thus intentionally leaving space for the Muslim army and civilians to retreat North, North-West towards Tuzla. The distance of 36km and the configuration of the terrain are such that any man in average physical condition can cross it on foot. The military operation was conducted in this manner with the intention of minimizing the number of casualties, since the Muslims had brought in substantial military forces. If the Muslim forces had been hermetically enclosed, a violent fight would have ensued in which the army of Republika Srpska (RS) would also have suffered serious casualties. Whence the horse - shoe plan.
All this can be clearly seen on the above American map showing the withdrawal of the Muslim army. It should also be noted that no ambush was set up at Snagovo. Rather, the main contingent of the Muslim army itself planned to infiltrate into the town of Zvornik and thus create a street fighting situation for the army of RS. The clashes at Nova Kasaba in the Konjevic Field occurred due to the Muslim blockade of the main road that goes from Belgrade – to Zvornik - to Vlasenica – to Han Pijesak – to Sarajevo, i.e. to Bosnian Serb capital Pale.
(Excerpt) Read more at trajkovic.co.yu ...
thought you might be interested relative to the strategy used that you mentioned.
quote: http://www.srebrenica-report.com/hoax.htm
"If there had been a premeditated plan of genocide, instead of attacking in only one direction, from the south to the north - which left the hypothesis to escape to the north and west, the Serbs would have established a siege in order to ensure that no one escaped. The UN observation posts to the north of the enclave were never disturbed and remained in activity after the end of the military operations. There are obviously mass graves in the outskirts of Srebrenica as in the rest of ex-Yugoslavia where combat has occurred, but there are no grounds for the campaign which was mounted, nor the numbers advanced by CNN.
The mass graves are filled by a limited number of corpses from both sides, the consequence of heated battle and combat and not the result of a premeditated plan of genocide, as occurred against the Serbian populations in Krajina, in the Summer of 1995, when the Croatian army implemented the mass murder of all Serbians found there. In this instance, the media maintained an absolute silence, despite the fact that the genocide occurred over a three month period. The objective of Srebrenica was ethnic cleansing and not genocide, unlike what happened in Krajina, in which although there was no military action, the Croatian army decimated villages.
Rejected.
The "correct report" is located on the Republika Srpska's website: The Events In And Around Srebrenica Between 10th And 19th July 1995.
There's also the Dutch NIOD report Srebrenica - A 'Safe' Area, which gives an overview of the enclave from the start of the war through it's overrunning by Serb forces.
What you're trying to bring to the table is revisionist crap, plain and simple. Are you seriously trying to forward Edward Herman, who co-authored the reprehensible "After the Cataclysm" with Noam Chomsky as a reputable source?
Denying Srebrenica is small potatoes to someone like Herman who's taken the position that the Vietnamese Communist and Khmer Rouge mass murder campaigns were "overreported" and that Pol Pot only killed 25,000 Cambodians. 7,000 Bosnians? Hell, that's just a rounding error in Herman's calculus of denial.
Can I get you to endorse the "Living Marxism" Trnopolje report while you're at it? Might as well go for broke if you're going to get into bed with the idiots Tom.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, the United States government, in direct opposition to your egregiously stupid position on the matter has stated the following, for the record, through the US Embassy's Charge d'Affairs in Belgrade, Roderick Moore:
It is an indisputable fact that, ten years ago, Serb forces under the command of Ratko Mladic massacred almost 8000 Bosnians in the enclave of Srebrenica. This atrocity has been documented through thousands of testimonials by witnesses and relatives, through the discovery of numerous mass graves, and even through last year's admission by the government of the Republika Srpska that Serb forces conducted the killings.
You see that Tom? Indisputable. Loosely translated it means that only a fool would attempt to deny it.
But then, as Srebrenica has become something of an IQ test, it's not surprising to see what side of the issue you come down on, is it.
Lastly, the OSCE Voter's Registers from 1997 and 1998 produced 9 matches with the consolodated ICRC and PHR Srebrenica Missing List, which when added to the 6 individuals found alive since 1997 left 7,475 persons dead or missing, and that 7,475 stands to this day as the best estimate of Srebrenica related dead or missing. Accounting for Genocide: How many were killed in Srebrenica? (.doc)
You're nothing but a disinformation vector hired by the losers in the Balkan's race wars Tom. As soon as you step outside of Kosovo you're in over your head, reduced to indiscriminately clinging to whatever rotten branches you can reach as the tide of history washes you down the gutter.
Scraped! and Rejected......
It is not indisputable just because you say so. I will challenge it as you are vastly outnumbered by the true accounts and not the spinning accounts. The entire venture to the Balkans was built on gross exaggerations and in some cases, fabrications. It's called an official spin and I have a person called General Enver Hadzihasanovic that disputes your version and Indisputable facts. Granted, in his testimony he claims 8,000 to 9,000 killed but then says that it's not consistent: Notice the "Certainty figure"....
Your reference, comes from the U.S. Embassy in Belgrade for Goodness sake. That's not an unbiased source. Where do you think the spin is coming from in the first place, in addition to the Muslims side. We supported the Muslims in Operation Flash, therefore, our spin will be in favor of the Bosnian Muslims, which by the way, included Muzzies from the ME. This is basic politics 101.....
I see that Hop became upset when I mentioned he highest rank was of a Specialist (E4) in the National Guard, a non-NCO. Since he couldn't handle day-day life as a 11Bravo, he went into the Guard and even they deemed him unworthy after a few years.
I love how Hoopie thinks that sticking in that "significant" qualifier does anything but prove that some Bosnian Jihadists did go to Afghanistan and/or Iraq.
But it is no wonder that the numbers might be small as we all know they are keeping the European-looking Bosnian Jihadists where they are so that they can be used against Europe and the US when the time is right.
The besieged forces could have easily defended the enclave,
(FR posters note:) I have been there to the Sreb mountains. You CAN NOT use vehicles at all! There is no passage, non defensible nor in an offensive nature. Only down in the town itself or on the roads. From the raods, they are like a salamander, winding and you can't visual at all. When I get my site back up before I head out, you will see for yourself.
Being a Tanker, I know this from tactical analyzation. (end of FR posters note)
at least for much longer, if they had been well led. It proved convenient to let the enclave fall in this manner. Since the enclave was doomed to fall, it was preferable to let this happen in the most beneficial manner possible. But this would only have been viable if Sarajevo had political initiative and freedom of movement, which would never occur at the negotiating table. The deliberate fall of the enclave might appear to be an act of terrible machiavellian orchestration, but the truth is that the Sarajevo government had much to gain, as proved to be the case. Srebrenica was not a zero-sum game. The Serbians won a military victory but with highly negative political side-effects, which helped result in their definitive ostracization.
We might add a final curious note. As the UN observation posts were attacked, and proved impossible to maintain, the forces withdrew. The barricades set up by the Muslim army did not let the troops past. These troops were not treated as soldiers fleeing from the front line, but rather with a sordid differentiation.
The Muslims not only refused to fight to defend themselves, they forced others to fight on their behalf. In one instance, the commander of a Dutch vehicle decided after conversations with ABiH to pass the barrier. A Muslim soldier threw a hand grenade whose fragments mortally wounded him. The only UN soldier to die in the Srebrenica offensive, was killed by the Muslims.
for your info
Mr. Hop is a pancake specialist with pathological tendencies......
Mr. Hop is a pancake specialist with pathological tendencies......
Correct.
It's indisputable because a sufficient body of evidence has been built up over the years to reveal the truth.
You and your little Serbian friends can keep trying to obscure the facts, producing more BS "reports" and attempting to spin the facts through omission and outright disinformation, but, ultimately, it will all be for naught.
You've gone past the point where you can discern what's helpful to your case and what's not - Gen. Hadzihasanovic's testimony in no way contradicts what I've presented. The column contained some 15,000 men, 5,000 of which belonged to the 28th Division, and whom were grouped at the front of the column, with their weapons. So if the General states that 2,000 plus men from the 28th made it through, that in no way addresses the 10,000 remaining men in the column, does it?
Pah. You're hopelessly incompetent as far as discussing this issue. You waste my time.
Take heed of what happened to David Irving, Tom.
"It's indisputable because a sufficient body of evidence has been built up over the years to reveal the truth."
I am not pro-Serbian, pro-Democrat, pro-Republican, I am anti-lies and anti-spin artists. I will not be still, nor will I be quiet. As out voices get louder so will the stakes and the threats. This is serious game beyond this forum...blah blah blah......
Holocaust deniers are idiots and have an agenda. I classify you as a David Irving, but in the opposite approach. He is denying something that did happen, you are claiming or spinning events that didn't happen, but both of you are the same kind of people. All evidence used to substantiate Srebrenica, Racak, Kosovo, etc....are built on partial truth and laced with extreme exaggerations. It ties with a very deeplined strategy that goes beyond the postings here; and is real. It is no game of tit for tat or writing on a forum to get out ones frustrations, just for research or to antagonize, or for whatever reason..........it is a very real strategy and there are spin masters on the Islamic side, spinmasters on the government side, spinmasters on the leftist side and they are all spinning like "Whistlers Mother".......Then, there are those that seek the truth, and are informing the public of the truth.........
You are a spin Master.....I believe that you and Fred "the Lief" Nerkson are double teaming. It's obvious that this is more than a past time for you due to your obvious persistant drive to discredit the posters that post any story or comment that is against the mainstream spin of about the Balkans.
"Pah. You're hopelessly incompetent as far as discussing this issue. You waste my time."
Then move on somewhere else. Even stop posting..........
I'm actually beginning to believe..."a paid" pancake specialist with specific guidance.
I'm actually beginning to believe..."a paid" pancake specialist with specific guidance.
Marcus, tom is neither a Serb or a Pro-Serb.
Which is why you haven't disavowed your idiotic claim that there were no mass graves of K-Albanians in Kosovo.
A lying anti-liar. Net worth, zero.
I classify you as a David Irving, but in the opposite approach.
Of course you do - I accuse you of being a Serbian version of David Irving, and lacking the imagination or ability to counter the accusation, you are reduced to saying "I know you are, but what am I?"
"You're hopelessly incompetent as far as discussing this issue."
:)) coming from you, this is suppoed to mean something??
The facts are self evident, Tom.
Humor me here: did you give any thought as to what your present activities were going to do the next time someone did a background check on you prior to employing you, or was this just another part of reality which you haven't thought fit to account for?
"You're hopelessly incompetent as far as discussing this issue."
:)) coming from you, this is suppoed to mean something??
"The facts are self evident, Tom."
More "I know you are, but what am I" nonsense. You're the liar, Tom. Not me.
Why do you think I keep bringing up your "no Kosovar mass graves" gaffe?
So long as you allow that documented lie of yours to remain in play, nothing you say is worth a damn. And all this Srebrenica nonsense you're going on about is just digging your hole deeper. You don't know the first thing about Srebrenica, and are being played like you hoped to play others in regard to Kosovo.
Oh the irony of it all.
C'mon Tom - go for the gusto: Gimme a "There were no Srebrenica related mass graves!" just for the record.
What have you got to lose which you haven't already lost?
This boy has more behind him, I am thinking than maybe he let's on. Why would a simple minded reservist, cook as you say, have such an interest in trying to focus on discrediting me. I have no problem with it, because I know my sources and my experiences plus others that are still there who corresponds with me almost daily.
The interesting part is that he is persistent to a curious level, like "have I considered what my rantings will have on any potential job openings"...That was an interesting comment. Sounds like a threat or desperate attempt to get me to "stop"......Then, I must have some sort of leverage or credibility that even I don't know about.....Most of us make our points and agree to disagree. Then move on to something else.....but hoplite only comes out when there is a negative point made about the U.S. involvement in the Balkans.....hmmmmmmmmmm?? :))
What do you think?
Anyway, I'm drafting a response to end this crap with Hoppie the Viking.....and the Kosovo Mass graves.....He is in fact like a child.......He lives with his mama in a trailer park? I hope it's a double wide......
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