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We're going on a planet hunt
EurekAlert ^ | 04/05/06 | Claire Bowles

Posted on 04/05/2006 7:53:38 PM PDT by KevinDavis

A FIFTH terrestrial planet may once have orbited between Mars and Jupiter. Although gravitational disturbances would have sent the planet hurtling into the sun or out into space long ago, traces of this long-gone world may still be visible in part of the asteroid belt today.

Recent simulations have suggested that the gas giants of our solar system formed with circular orbits but moved into their more elongated paths about 4 billion years ago – 700 million years after the solar system formed. While the gas giants were in circular orbits, rocky planets should have formed in stable orbits out to a distance of 2.2 astronomical units (1 AU = 1 Earth- Sun distance).

However, there are no planets between Mars, which lies at 1.5 AU from the sun, and Jupiter at 5.2 AU. That puzzled Sean Raymond of the University of Colorado in Boulder and John Chambers of the Carnegie Institution in Washington DC. "There's room for another planet between Mars and Jupiter," says Chambers. "Given that planets formed everywhere else, why couldn't another planet have formed there?"

The researchers modelled what would have happened in that region, and found that a planet about the size of Mars could have formed 2 AU from the sun and remained stable there until the orbits of the gas giant changed.

(Excerpt) Read more at eurekalert.org ...


TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: exoplanets; space; tvf; xplanets

1 posted on 04/05/2006 7:53:41 PM PDT by KevinDavis
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To: RightWhale; Brett66; xrp; gdc314; anymouse; NonZeroSum; jimkress; discostu; The_Victor; ...

2 posted on 04/05/2006 7:54:10 PM PDT by KevinDavis (http://www.cafepress.com/spacefuture)
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To: KevinDavis

It's an old question since Ceres and the other big asteroids were noticed. Some think that Mars may have been part of the missing planet system, a moon of a bigger planet.


3 posted on 04/05/2006 7:56:15 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty)
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To: KevinDavis
"There's room for another planet between Mars and Jupiter," says Chambers. "Given that planets formed everywhere else, why couldn't another planet have formed there?"

Of course, we all know why...but I am not saying it!

4 posted on 04/05/2006 7:57:15 PM PDT by JRios1968 (E=mc3...the origin of "friends don't let friends derive drunk.")
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To: KevinDavis

Is this the modern version of the Snipe hunt?


5 posted on 04/05/2006 7:58:12 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Liberals don't care about minorities... they just pimp them.)
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To: RightWhale

Sounds like the theory supported by Richard C. Hoagland.

Not saying that he is wrong (it is, after all, a theory) but well, still, whenever he's on C2C and talks about Mars, one of the theories he constantly brings out and of course, supports is the exploded Planet theory in which Mars was a moon of.


6 posted on 04/05/2006 7:59:17 PM PDT by Simmy2.5 (There are more conspiracies at DU then there are on Coast to Coast AM.)
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To: KevinDavis
Xenu did it...


7 posted on 04/05/2006 8:00:40 PM PDT by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: Simmy2.5

It was Van Flandern, RCH's one time partner in space speculation. But the idea was around long before Art Bell made his first radio.


8 posted on 04/05/2006 8:01:23 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty)
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To: Simmy2.5

There is not enough mass in the asteroid belt. Jupiter played a large part in the prevention of the asteroids from forming even a small moon like object.


9 posted on 04/05/2006 8:01:33 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer (Senior member of Darwin Central)
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To: KevinDavis
Well, supposedly a Mars-sized body slammed into the early Earth and reformed the Earth with the Moon. So that's one place a Mars-sized planet could have gone. Of course it's also possible that there just wasn't enough material in that slot to clump together and form a planet.
10 posted on 04/05/2006 8:02:07 PM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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To: darkwing104; PJ-Comix

I could have sworn they would blame a Rove conspiracy to eliminate that "missing" planet. Didn't someone in a recent DUFU say President Bush was a threat to other planets too?


11 posted on 04/05/2006 8:02:20 PM PDT by JRios1968 (E=mc3...the origin of "friends don't let friends derive drunk.")
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To: Simmy2.5

No, it is not a theory, it is, at best, a hypothesis, and at worst pure speculation.

Scientists use the word "theory" in a very specific way that is often confused by laymen.


12 posted on 04/05/2006 8:02:36 PM PDT by Bender
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To: KevinDavis

We're going on a planet hunt.
We're going to find a big one.
I'm not afaid. Are you?

We're looking out to space.
It sure is high.
It sure is wide.

Well, there's nothing over there.
Nothing over there.
Nothing out there.

Hey! Wait! I think I see something!
Quick! Everybody run!


13 posted on 04/05/2006 8:05:11 PM PDT by mtbopfuyn
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To: RadioAstronomer

Right. Could be that. The probe that brought back comet tail material is showing materials that took considerable heat to form. Mineralization, which might indicate a degree of planetization. An exploding planet seems overly melodramatic.


14 posted on 04/05/2006 8:05:50 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty)
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To: RightWhale
I believe there was a search for the missing planet between Mars and Jupiter in the late 18th century, before Ceres was discovered (on the first night of the 19th century)...or maybe the search was just being planned when the discovery of Ceres was announced.

All of the planets have elliptical orbits, thanks to Johann Kepler, but Neptune's is very close to being circular, and it's one of the gas giants, so I don't understand the point about the gas giants having elongated orbits.

15 posted on 04/05/2006 8:07:47 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Question_Assumptions

The moon is heavily cratered, and so is Mercury, and it looks like earth is, too, although erosion and other action has obliterated a lot of the obvious earth craters. There was a lot of big stuff out there at one point.


16 posted on 04/05/2006 8:08:35 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty)
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To: RightWhale

Nothing wrong with the exploding planet hypothesis other than the fact it would take the energy output the Sun generates for about 20 hours to explode a planet the size of the Earth and prevent it gravitationally reforming, and there is no known mechanizm in a planet that can do that.


17 posted on 04/05/2006 8:09:29 PM PDT by Bender
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To: KevinDavis
The Titus-Bode Law predicts a planet at 2.8 AU, which corresponds with the Asteroid Belt.
18 posted on 04/05/2006 8:09:44 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: RightWhale

Not to mention there is not enough material. LOL!


19 posted on 04/05/2006 8:09:50 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer (Senior member of Darwin Central)
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To: wideminded

However, that law does not fit all planets and is pretty suspect.


20 posted on 04/05/2006 8:11:33 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer (Senior member of Darwin Central)
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To: Verginius Rufus

It would take a lot to change the orbit of any of the gas giants. That material doesn't appear to be present now. Jupiter could force the asteroids into the present Belt, but the rest of the planets and asteroids wouldn't do much at all to Jupiter.


21 posted on 04/05/2006 8:12:17 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty)
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To: RightWhale

I have seen numerous theories about Mars and Earth history presented separately. Rarely, if ever, do I see credible sources try to tie the theories/events together, even though the time frames are roughly the same. Perhaps the missing planet (or a large portion of it) struck the Earth and coalesced into what we now know, billions of years later, as Earth and Moon.


22 posted on 04/05/2006 8:12:41 PM PDT by CountryBumpkin
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To: Bender

Something massive might have passed through the solar system and is long gone leaving a few clues but nothing else.


23 posted on 04/05/2006 8:14:07 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty)
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To: CountryBumpkin

That hypothesis is currently popular. It was also the main hypothesis they taught us in grammar school in the 50s.


24 posted on 04/05/2006 8:15:30 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty)
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To: RightWhale
An exploding planet seems overly melodramatic.


25 posted on 04/05/2006 8:18:07 PM PDT by JRios1968 (E=mc3...the origin of "friends don't let friends derive drunk.")
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To: RightWhale

Paging Art Bell...

Planet X


26 posted on 04/05/2006 9:22:03 PM PDT by JeffersonRepublic.com (There is no truth in the news, and no news in the truth.)
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To: RightWhale
The current theory, because simulations have show that it works, is a Mars-sized planet hitting "Earth I" at an oblique angle, destroying both planets in the process but leaving enough debris in orbit to form the moon. That collision resurfaced the Earth and may be responsible for why the Earth still has a liquid interior, so much heavy material in its core, and so much water. See this article for some pictures of the simulations.
27 posted on 04/05/2006 9:37:30 PM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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To: vannrox; 75thOVI; AndrewC; Avoiding_Sulla; BenLurkin; Berosus; CGVet58; chilepepper; ckilmer; ...

Long-Destroyed Fifth Planet May Have Caused Lunar Cataclysm, Researchers Say
SPACE dot COM | 18 March 2002 posted: 03:00 pm ET
By Leonard David, Senior Space Writer
Posted on 03/25/2002 5:42:10 PM EST by vannrox
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/653287/posts


28 posted on 04/05/2006 11:09:14 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Hoagland has borrowed (ahem) TVF's idea.

It would be nice if TVF would drop Hoaxland's "Face on Mars" crap, but alas...

Here's the link to the most current revision to TVF's EPH:

The Exploded Planet Hypothesis – 2000
Tom Van Flandern, Meta Research
http://www.metaresearch.org/solar%20system/eph/eph2000.asp


29 posted on 04/05/2006 11:12:34 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: KevinDavis
I read or saw somewhere that the total mass of the asteroid belt was between the Moon and Mars; and that if a planetoid existed there once, that it was probably struck by a Ceres size asteroid and destroyed. Either way, there's enough raw materiel there to allow mankind to exist for thousands of years on Earth, Mars, our Moon and the moons of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto.
30 posted on 04/06/2006 1:04:51 AM PDT by Lancer_N3502A
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To: Question_Assumptions

There was a program on last night on one of the cable channels about this collision and how the moon was formed from the debris which bounced back into space.


31 posted on 04/06/2006 6:25:07 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Lancer_N3502A

How could man survive on the moons of Pluto? People just wouldn't be able to stand the conditions there. It would take upwards of 10 hours to send a reply to FR and get a response--twice as long when the earth was on the far side of the sun, and for a couple of months each year it would be impossible even to read FR. No thanks.


32 posted on 04/06/2006 6:32:14 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: KevinDavis
We're going on a planet hunt

So, be vewy, vewy, quiet!

33 posted on 04/06/2006 7:20:17 AM PDT by Reaganesque
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To: RadioAstronomer
However, that law does not fit all planets and is pretty suspect.

According to the chart in the link, the correspondence looks pretty good, when one includes a small constant term, except for Neptune. I realize that this is a phenomenological law. I don't know so much about astronomy; IIRC, I actually read about Bode's Law sometime in elementary school and my knowledge of the planets probably didn't procede much further.

34 posted on 04/06/2006 10:54:47 AM PDT by wideminded
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To: KevinDavis
Recent simulations have suggested that the gas giants of our solar system formed with circular orbits but moved into their more elongated paths about 4 billion years ago...

And why exactly did THAT happen?

35 posted on 04/06/2006 3:50:43 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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from April 2006:
X-Planets FR 'blog

36 posted on 06/29/2006 12:50:12 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006.)
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This is another older topic. Bode's Law is a mnemonic, at best.

· X-Planets ping list · join · view topics · view or post blog messages · bookmark ·

37 posted on 08/19/2006 8:07:44 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: RadioAstronomer; Fred Nerks
topic from 2006. Radioastronomer is gone now.
There is not enough mass in the asteroid belt. Jupiter played a large part in the prevention of the asteroids from forming even a small moon like object.
There is not enough mass *now*. Jupiter has more than half the mass of all known Solar System objects in orbit around the Sun (IOW, not counting the Sun), but is enriched in noble gases, so (from the standpoint of the dominant model for planetary formation) either it formed much further out, or accumulated most of its mass from interaction with other bodies.
38 posted on 10/10/2007 9:49:15 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Friday, October 5, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/653287/posts?page=113#113


39 posted on 10/10/2007 9:54:00 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Friday, October 5, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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