Posted on 02/04/2008 8:12:51 AM PST by Wyatt K
Problem is there is no formal state of war. There has been no declaration of war. So any issue of treason, sedition or subversion is subject to interpretation. If SCOTUS is asked to weigh Title 18 vs. the 1st Amendment, I believe it will come down firmly on the side of the latter.
Pardon my ignorance, but does the “Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq” not qualify as a declaration of war?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html
To me it sure reads like one.
This is crazy
It is not a declaration of war. It is a side-step, like the Gulf of Tonkin resolution and the 1991 Gulf War resolution. It is a way for Congress to pass the buck to the president.
The US, in point of fact, could not declare war on Iraq in 2003 — the argument under international law was that the US acted under UN auspices when it drove Iraq from Kuwait in 1991. Iraq subsequently violated the terms of the cease-fire. To openly declare war would mean to accept the legitimacy of the Iraqi regime and to treat it as a peer.
When Congress declares war, it states clearly that a state of war exists between the USA and country X. To do so implies that country X is a real country. That has not been done since December 8, 1941, when the US declared war on Japan and Germany declared war in return. Most of America’s wars have not been declared.
Thanks, I understand. I guess what threw me a bit was the talk about “war powers” for the president, which would at least imply that we are at war.
Having said that, I wonder how the court will view this given that we are physically at war. I mean, can anyone deny that we are at war, regardless of whether it has been officially declared or not?
The Constitution gives Congress the power to declare war, but names the president as commander-in-chief of the military — like so many parts of the Constitution, it was a compromise deliberately left vague.
The War Powers Act was written in the belief that the president (Johnson) had abused his lawful authority. No president has accepted its limitations, but none has challenged it. No Congress has repealed it, but none has invoked it. The War Powers Act may or may not be constitutional, but we don’t know, because no one with standing has brought it to court.
As a matter of law, for example, the USA could not declare war on the CSA — to do so would mean recognizing the CSA as a sovereign nation, which would make the entire war unjust. The US did not declare war against North Korea, because we were there simply as allies to defend South Korea. Ditto Vietnam.
Ok, but Iraq is a sovereign nation.
I can understand in the case of Vietnam that we were there by invitation of the south, but not sure how that is a parallel to Iraq, especially given the law on US books mandating regime change there. That was signed off by Congress, right, as was all the war funding bills. I would think that that would give some legal identity to the war, just not sure what.
Thanks for the info, much appreciated.
Communists Are Protesting Marines at Berkeley With Code Pink
David Horowitz's Discover the Networks, Feb. 4, 2008
Berkeley Attacks U.S. Marines - MAF Responds!
Move America Forward, Feb. 4, 2008
Complete The Mission in Bagdad - Withdraw From Berkeley, California
Townhall.com, Feb. 4, 2008
**UNREPORTED** FACT ABOUT BERKELEY MARINE ISSUE (CODE PINK)
Berkeley Agenda Item 4b.14, posted Feb. 4, 2008
Code Pink Has Its Pink Panties in a Twist over Berkeley Boycott
MelanieMorgan.com, Feb. 3, 2008
CodePink Physically Assaults People Visiting Marines, Berkeley Police Allow It
bayareanewsgroup.com, Feb. 2, 2008
Barbara Boxer Condemns Sen. DeMint Instead Of Troop Haters In Berkeley
Marooned in Marin weblog, Feb. 2, 2008
MELANIE MORGAN: ARE YOU READY TO RUMBLE? (Berkeley Mayor - Free Speech Thief)
MelanieMorgan.com, Feb. 2, 2008
Berkeley, California Throws Out Marines, DeMint to Revoke City's Fed. Funding
Right Wing News, Feb. 2, 2008
BERKELEY Facing off over Marine Corps
San Francisco Chronicle, Feb. 2, 2008
U.S. Senator Wants to Revoke Funding From City of Berkeley, Calif., for Vote to Boot Marines
Fox News, Feb. 1, 2008
Talk Back to Berkeley: Sign the Petition
Michelle Malkin, Feb. 1, 2008
Conservatives target Berkeley as protesters block Marines' door
San Francisco Chronicle, Feb. 1, 2008
Berkeley mayor offers to help Marines leave
Contra Costa Times, Feb. 1, 2008
Marines say they will stay in Berkeley
Contra Costa Times, Feb. 1, 2008
Group protests Marine recruiters in Berkeley
San Francisco Chronicle Feb. 1, 2008
Berkeley council tells Marines to leave
Contra Costa Times, Jan. 30, 2008
Berkeley Council Tells Marines to Leave (Calls Marines "Intruders")
Contra Costa Times, Jan. 30, 2008
Initiative Drive Begun to Restrict Military Recruiting
Berkeley Daily Planet, Jan. 25, 2008
Marine Recruiters 'Traitors,' Say Code Pink Protesters
CNSNews, Oct. 18, 2007
Commentary: An Open Letter to Code Pink [Marine Recruiter Blasts Aging Hippie Traitors]
Berkeley Daily Planet, Oct. 2, 2007
Click here to sign MAF petition drive against Berkeley City Council's action
Ping.
“BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Council of the City of Berkeley encourage all people to avoid cooperation with the Marine Corps recruiting station, and applaud
residents and organizations such as Code Pink, that may volunteer to impede, passively
or actively, by nonviolent means, the work of any military recruiting office located in the City of Berkeley.
Ayes: Unanimous; Absent: Brody, Cohen, Litman, Seaton, Sherman.
CITY MANAGER
The City Manager takes no position on the recommendations of the Commission.
However, it is unlikely that the City has the ability to enforce Chapter 13.28 against the
United States military.
CONTACT PERSON
Steve Freedkin, Chairperson, Peace and Justice Commission, (510) 595-4626
Robert Meola, Peace and Justice Commission, (510) 644-1102
Manuel Hector Jr., Secretary, Peace and Justice Commission, (510) 981-5110”
Diapers?
The petition
We, the undersigned condemn the Berkeley City Council’s treasonous attack on US Marine Recruiters stationed in their city. We ask that Congress cut off funds from any and all municipal entity within the confines of the city of Berkeley, California, until such time as the city council withdraws it’s action.
The City Council has voted to tell the Marines their downtown recruiting station is not welcome and “if recruiters choose to stay, they do so as uninvited and unwelcome guests.”
The measure passed last week by a vote of 8-1.
The council also voted to explore enforcing a city anti-discrimination law, focusing on the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy.
In a separate item, the council voted, also 8-1, to give the Marxist protest group Code Pink a parking space in front of the recruiting office once a week for six months and a free sound permit for protesting once a week.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/cutoffberkeleynow
If you wish to, please share with your friends or e-mail to your address books.
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