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McCain’s Defense of Hagee
A Few Days With Figgins ^ | Saturday, May 24, 2008 | Gary Wiram

Posted on 05/24/2008 12:52:21 PM PDT by GaryWiram

OK, there wasn’t one. As a result of controversy that was raised up about Pastor John Hagee within the past few days, Senator John McCain rejected the endorsement Hagee had given his presidential candidacy, without any apparent attempt to come to Hagee’s defense.

At the center of the mentioned controversy is an argument Pastor Hagee included in a late 1990s sermon. Those who unearthed this sermon, sum up Hagee’s argument as saying, “… the rise of Adolf Hitler was part of God's plan to help the Jews reach the Promised Land.” If that’s an accurate summary, I think Pastor Hagee is wrong. I’m a man of faith and I believe that God does know the end from the beginning so I would agree that God knew what Hitler would do. I, also, believe the Bible and what it tells us about the nature of God. As an example, in Romans 8:28, we’re told, “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.” In other words, though God knows of the evil that men will do, He sees to it that it leads to good anyway, for His people. So, while I can see that applying to the mind-boggling evil that Hitler did, it isn’t in God’s nature to raise up that evil Himself. With that said, I guess I can see how Hagee could get carried away and come to the conclusion he did but I don’t agree with that conclusion and I would agree with McCain in rejecting that conclusion.

However, it wasn’t just that conclusion that McCain rejected. He rejected Hagee’s endorsement and in doing that, he rejected Hagee himself. In order to understand McCain’s character and his fitness to be our next President, I think it’s appropriate to ask … Why was there no apparent attempt to come to Hagee’s defense?

Of course, I can understand why it was politically expedient for McCain to reject Hagee’s endorsement. Especially, in light of how McCain’s detractors have relentlessly dug for anything they can find to counter the Rev. Jeremiah Wright stigma that McCain’s opponent, Senator Barack Obama, carries. But doesn’t Hagee deserve better? McCain actually sought out Hagee’s endorsement. And this past February, Hagee stood up for McCain, in the way McCain wanted. I trust that Hagee did this, fully aware that McCain has his flaws. McCain admits to this, himself. A good example came this past MLK Day; when McCain appeared at the site of MLK’s assassination and stated, “I was wrong. I was wrong.” And “We all make mistakes. We all make mistakes”, regarding his original opposition to establishing MLK Day, as a National Holiday. Perhaps McCain’s original opposition to MLK Day was out of some well-intended but misdirected over-exuberance. Whatever the reason, McCain, himself, now rejects that position and yet, he asks that we not allow this admitted error to cause us to reject him or his presidential candidacy.

Why, then, isn’t Senator McCain extending the same consideration to Pastor Hagee that he asks for himself? Perhaps Pastor Hagee wouldn’t admit to being in error. I don’t know. What I do know is that it troubles me that McCain rejected Hagee without any apparent attempt to give him that opportunity, so he might continue to stand up for him. It makes me wonder how the “Captain of the Straight-Talk Express” will stand up for me, in spite of my flaws. Although I’m, presently, a McCain supporter, I have to wonder if I can count on him once he finds out that I voted for Ambassador Alan Keyes for President, in California’s 2000 Primaries. I heard Keyes speak at my church and every time he spoke, he uttered my views. Since then, Barack Obama beat him like a drum, in the Illinois race for U.S. Senate and with his few appearances in the current presidential campaign; I’ve been embarrassed for Keyes. Maybe I was just overly enthusiastic about Keyes’ speech at my church but, considering what I’ve witnessed since then, I have to conclude that my judgment was flawed, in casting my Year-2000 Presidential Primary vote for him. Does that mistake, with or without admitting to it, mean that Senator McCain would reject my support and thus, reject me? Maybe so and maybe I’d understand it, in a way. Maybe that would be the politically expedient thing to do. But is that what we want our nation’s character to be founded on? Political expedience?! Shouldn’t we be willing to stand up for those who stand up for us … At least to the extent that, before rejecting them, we give them the opportunity to acknowledge their mistakes so that we can continue to stand up for them? I’ve done that for Senator McCain and so did John Hagee. But, that’s not what Hagee got from McCain, in return. John McCain is an unquestionably-genuine national hero. My gratitude for all he’s done for us and our nation is undying. Regardless, I’m disappointed that I didn’t see the courage of an unquestionably-genuine national hero in the way he dealt with this recent controversy, that was raised up around John Hagee. My hope is that he will revisit this in a way that assures me that we can continue to count on John McCain to courageously stand up for us all, imperfect though we are.


TOPICS: Government; Politics; Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: 2008; hagee; mccain; obama; pastor; pl; underthebus; wright

1 posted on 05/24/2008 12:52:21 PM PDT by GaryWiram
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To: GaryWiram
Serves Hagee right for endorseing the corrupt weasle..
Reminds of the frog giving the scorpion a ride across the river..
Duuuugh..
2 posted on 05/24/2008 12:55:18 PM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: hosepipe

http://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/jesus-did-not-come-to-be-the-messiah/


3 posted on 05/24/2008 1:10:44 PM PDT by Matchett-PI (Driving an Operation Chaos Hybrid that burns both gas AND rubber.)
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To: GaryWiram
I guess I can see how Hagee could get carried away and come to the conclusion he did but I don’t agree with that conclusion and I would agree with McCain in rejecting that conclusion.

I don't agree w/McCain - he is a self righteous, ego maniac - and when it comes to the things of God - he is the last person that would know. He takes one statement and runs w/it.

John Hagee is the MOST ardent supporter of Israel and McCain is the most ardent supporter of himself. McCain has alienated himself from the Christian conservatives - and there is a reason why - he doesn't agree w/them. And the feeling is mutual, IMO. I believe McCain has no intention of winning. He isn't 'in it' to win.
4 posted on 05/24/2008 1:28:23 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name
During the 2000 election, McCain released his medical records going back some years. At the time, Time magazine reported that after release in Vietnam, McCain was evaluated by Navy psychiatrists who determined he had an "overdeveloped superego" and an "unrealistically high" need for achievement

They pretty much nailed it way back in 1973!

5 posted on 05/24/2008 1:36:02 PM PDT by calcowgirl (Schwarzenegger and McCain are trying to castrate the elephant)
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To: presently no screen name

Of course he’s in it to win - and he’s just helped his chances by throwing Hagee under the bus.


6 posted on 05/24/2008 1:38:46 PM PDT by fuzzy dunlop
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To: calcowgirl

I’d guess he also has an unrealistic need for media approval, based on his tendency to court their positive coverage. Unfortunately, his dismally low intelligence doesn’t allow him to see that the more he jumps through their hoops, between now and November, the more hoops will appear. He’ll be in real trouble when they become radioactive flaming hoops, around the summer.


7 posted on 05/24/2008 1:40:45 PM PDT by DPMD (~)
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To: hosepipe; GaryWiram
As a result of controversy that was raised up about Pastor John Hagee within the past few days, Senator John McCain rejected the endorsement Hagee had given his presidential candidacy, without any apparent attempt to come to Hagee’s defense.

Cut MacCain some slack, guys. I imagine few of you have ever seen anyone so bravely run away. {/sarcasm off)

8 posted on 05/24/2008 1:47:43 PM PDT by E. Cartman (Better to have your enemy before you than beside you or behind you.)
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To: fuzzy dunlop
Of course he’s in it to win - and he’s just helped his chances by throwing Hagee under the bus.

And now it should be clear to even the Mug-Whores that MacCain is going after the same voting blocs as HillObama.

9 posted on 05/24/2008 1:49:02 PM PDT by E. Cartman (Better to have your enemy before you than beside you or behind you.)
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To: E. Cartman

What’s a “Mug Whore” ?

Sorry to be obtuse.


10 posted on 05/24/2008 1:54:05 PM PDT by fuzzy dunlop
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To: fuzzy dunlop; death2tyrants; KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle; calcowgirl; Liz; indylindy; Grunthor; ...
What’s a “Mug Whore” ?

Several days ago it was learned that the MacCain campaign was offering discounts on items from the official MacCain Campaign Store to folks who wrote positive things about the senator at various blogs and websites. While I would consider this good marketing if they were selling denture cream or geritol, that they're now using this ploy to make it look as if their boy has wide-spread support is both detestable and ridiculously burlesque.

Thus was born the term for those shilling for sharp discounts on official John MacCain products by writing nice things about the candidate "Mug-Whore".

11 posted on 05/24/2008 2:02:56 PM PDT by E. Cartman (Better to have your enemy before you than beside you or behind you.)
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To: E. Cartman

Am I a “mug whore” for only stating one or 2 weaknesses in the GOP candidate for President - how many should I have stated before I would fail to qualify ?

If I am, from where do I collect my mug ?


12 posted on 05/24/2008 2:22:03 PM PDT by fuzzy dunlop
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To: Matchett-PI
I know.. Messiah was supposed to be a King.. so Hagee was correct partially.. As Jesus said.. he came for the Jews and minister to the Jews.. first/mainly.. The time/dispensation/eon of the gentiles had not yet begun.. So in a sense the messiah had not come yet.. fully.. What IS the messiah.. is the rub.. Even NOW the messiah has not fully come.. Maranatha Jesus... Also the Holy Spirits time was not fulfilled yet either..

What is messiah should not be looked at simplistically I think.. The agenda and plans of the messiah is beyond all our paygrades.. Even now the messiah is at work.. (John ch 10..) and will soon come as King.. You know of this planet and beyond..

13 posted on 05/24/2008 2:23:57 PM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: E. Cartman

McCain is now offering the Campaign 2008 vibrator. If you can shill for enough bonus points you can also get a thrill while boring your butt off.

The only one you may get for shilling for McCain.

If you are old, save enough bonus points, you can get a McCain Tee Shirt that says, “I Shilled for McCain and all I got was this stinking Tee Shirt.”

I might try to say something nice about him for one of those.


14 posted on 05/24/2008 3:22:38 PM PDT by dforest (I had almost forgotten that McCain is the nominee. Too bad I was reminded.)
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To: hosepipe

“Even now the messiah is at work.. (John ch 10..) and will soon come as King..” ~ hosepipe

Daniel 7:13-14I was watching in the night visions, and behold, One like the Son of Man, coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought Him near before Him. Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.

This is not speaking of a descent to earth. Notice the directionof the coming. It is UP to the Father. This is not speaking of His return DOWN to the earth, but of His vindication over death and ascension to the Father.... the very same event spoken of by the Ephesians passage. This is quite obvious.

Now let’s look once again at that primary text for discussion breaking it apart a bit.... [snip]
Continue: http://www.tektonics.org/esch/ddwplace.html

More: http://www.tektonics.org/esch/eschatology.html


15 posted on 05/24/2008 3:39:36 PM PDT by Matchett-PI (Driving an Operation Chaos Hybrid that burns both gas AND rubber.)
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To: E. Cartman
Thus was born the term for those shilling for sharp discounts on official John MacCain products by writing nice things about the candidate "Mug-Whore".

... and here you always thought those street corner gals in the seedier portion of downtown gave it away for ridiculously low prices...! ;)

16 posted on 05/24/2008 3:51:36 PM PDT by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle (If McCain really CAN "win without conservatives," then why do you care if I vote for him or not?)
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To: Matchett-PI
Yes.. where is the heavenlys?..
Where is the Spiritual Realm?..

The flesh tends to look at "things".. linearly.. in a linear way..
i.e. Whats.. HERE is not THERE.. NOW is not Then.. like that..

I appreciate I Cor 2;9 in that sense..
When the SPirit hits the fan we might all be quite surprised
at what "IS" and what "is NOT"...

17 posted on 05/24/2008 4:11:40 PM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle; Liz; calcowgirl; Calpernia; indylindy; AuntB; Tennessee Nana; ...
... and here you always thought those street corner gals in the seedier portion of downtown gave it away for ridiculously low prices...! ;)

Nah...just wait until they come out with "The Official Cindy MacCain" fun pack...you'll have to be over 18 with valid ID as proof to be eligible.

Oh, and, Mug-Whores, there's a minimum assessment of $50.00 to cover shipping and handling of your official John MacCain products.

If they're charging more for shipping and handling than the product's worth, it's your personal guarantee that you're getting an officially approved John MacCain product.

18 posted on 05/24/2008 4:27:57 PM PDT by E. Cartman (Better to have your enemy before you than beside you or behind you.)
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To: E. Cartman
Nah...just wait until they come out with "The Official Cindy MacCain" fun pack...you'll have to be over 18 with valid ID as proof to be eligible.

Not to worry, however: once Juan's outfitted them, one and all, with those sweet, snazzy valid U.S. drivers' licenses he's so anxious to bestow... they'll all have "valid U.S. ID," no matter where they're really from, or how they got here! WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEE -- !!!

19 posted on 05/24/2008 4:41:43 PM PDT by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle (If McCain really CAN "win without conservatives," then why do you care if I vote for him or not?)
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To: E. Cartman; KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle; calcowgirl; indylindy; AuntB; Tennessee Nana; Czar; ...
...just wait until they come out with "The Official Cindy MacCain" fun pack...you'll have to be over 18 with valid ID as proof to be eligible........

ROTFL. Now, now guys, I don't want any fighting over who gets the first shot at the The Official Cindy MacCain Fun Pack.

Relax a bit, and hoist a few cold ones, why don't you. A/B heiress Cindy would approve.

20 posted on 05/24/2008 5:57:50 PM PDT by Liz (Without the brave, there'd be no land of the free. Senator Fred Thompson)
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To: Liz
ROTFL. Now, now guys, I don't want any fighting over who gets the first shot at the The Official Cindy MacCain Fun Pack.

Back in the days of my beardless youth, we typically referred to that sort of thing as a Lou Reed Lunch, or else The Iggy Pop Diet Regimen. ;)

21 posted on 05/24/2008 6:00:31 PM PDT by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle (If McCain really CAN "win without conservatives," then why do you care if I vote for him or not?)
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To: indylindy

LOL!


22 posted on 05/24/2008 6:20:06 PM PDT by AuntB (Vote Obama! ..........Because ya can't blame 'the man' when you are the 'man'.... Wanda Sikes)
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To: Liz; KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle
Relax a bit, and hoist a few cold ones, why don't you. A/B heiress Cindy would approve.

Sigh.... If we must. ;-)


23 posted on 05/24/2008 8:04:08 PM PDT by calcowgirl (Schwarzenegger and McCain are trying to castrate the elephant)
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To: Liz

How did you do that?

The pic changed.


24 posted on 05/24/2008 8:41:28 PM PDT by calcowgirl (Schwarzenegger and McCain are trying to castrate the elephant)
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To: calcowgirl

Thanks. While I didn’t know about the Navy’s report - they are certainly right on. We’ve seen the results in real time.


25 posted on 05/26/2008 7:43:34 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: fuzzy dunlop
Perhaps, in your quest to blast Hagee, also, you misread what I wrote....He isn't 'in it' to win.

McCain commenting and/or responding on things he knows nothing just confirms his McCraziness. Pastor Hagee has been the voice for Israel and he takes seriously the Word of The Lord concerning Israel - I will bless those that bless you and curse those that curse you. And McCain blasts the man who blesses Israel with all of his teachings, prayers, support.

McCain is the synonym for dumb, clueless! The smart know when to keep their mouth shut and know the appropriate time when silence is golden.
26 posted on 05/26/2008 8:13:41 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

In your original post, you made the statement that neither Hagee nor McCain agree with each other.

Why the anger then when McCain simply refuses an endorsement from a man with whom he doesn’t agree ?

And I think you’ll find 90% of Americans find Hagee’s comments about God “allowing” the “hunter” Hitler to undertake genocide so that it would “get them to come back to the land of Israel” as deeply offensive as McCain obviously found them.

I agree with your comment about the smart knowing when to keep their mouths shut.


27 posted on 05/26/2008 8:38:07 AM PDT by fuzzy dunlop
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To: fuzzy dunlop
And I think you’ll find 90% of Americans find Hagee’s comments about God “allowing” the “hunter” Hitler to undertake genocide so that it would “get them to come back to the land of Israel” as deeply offensive as McCain obviously found them.

I love how everything is now couched in terms of being offended. Can't we disagree without offense? I know I disagree with Hagee, but his comments don't offend me. Why do we have to be such women about everything?
28 posted on 05/26/2008 8:42:28 AM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We deserve the government we allow.)
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To: AD from SpringBay

I found Hillary evoking the Holocaust when trying to make a point about trade OFFENSIVE :

http://elections.jta.org/2008/05/02/clinton-first-they-came-for-the-steel-companies/

I found Hagees remarks about God using the Holocaust to further the cause of Israel OFFENSIVE.

Sometimes, one doesn’t just disagree with something. They find it OFFENSIVE.

Nice remark out of the 1970’s at the end there, FRiend.


29 posted on 05/26/2008 8:54:44 AM PDT by fuzzy dunlop
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To: fuzzy dunlop

No anger on my part. McCain is the last one I’d spend an ounce of energy on. I’d love to see exactly what McCain has done personally and politically for Israel. He comes off offended - oh please, give me a break!! Juan is in bed with the worst of the worst.


30 posted on 05/26/2008 4:15:32 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: E. Cartman

Why’d you put me on your ping list? I’m not part of your lets-urge-people-not-to-vote-for-McCain-so-Obama-wins crowd.


31 posted on 05/26/2008 5:27:57 PM PDT by death2tyrants
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To: death2tyrants

Thanks for the back-up in here FRiend - it’s been a bit lonely.

Some of us conservatives have such a pathalogical detestation of McCain, it’s blinding us to the realities of the situation.


32 posted on 05/27/2008 3:54:44 AM PDT by fuzzy dunlop
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To: fuzzy dunlop

You’re welcome. There’s a whole crowd of them that start flamming anyone who expresses support for McCain in the General Election.


33 posted on 05/27/2008 7:10:29 AM PDT by death2tyrants
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To: fuzzy dunlop
it’s blinding us to the realities of the situation.

I don't think it's blinding ANY conservative. The reality is very clear. That's the problem, the powers that be see it/have known it - and, yet, McCain, is the only one standing. What's wrong w/the picture? Anyone would have to be gagged, blindfolded and held in darkness NOT to know something is greatly amiss in this election. And then add McCain's "up yours" attitude to the conservatives. Yeah, sure, the GOP wants to win - NOT!
34 posted on 05/27/2008 3:37:16 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: death2tyrants
Why’d you put me on your ping list? I’m not part of your lets-urge-people-not-to-vote-for-McCain-so-Obama-wins crowd.

You're not on my ping list...and I take it then you're one of those no-matter-what-he-does-no-matter-how-lefitst-or-asinine-if-he's-got-the-magic-R-behind-his-name-it's-only-good-and-I'll-vote-for-him-no-matter-what "Americans"?

35 posted on 05/27/2008 5:55:30 PM PDT by E. Cartman (Better to have your enemy before you than beside you or behind you.)
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To: presently no screen name

Fair enough, but my view is that you might as well howl at the moon.

Given the tone of a few of your posts in this thread - I recommend an anger management course too.

McCain or Obama (or Barr, I suppose if you have a death wish).

That’s the facts of the matter. We need to make the best of a bad situation. Obama is not the best of a bad situation.

What do you think is “amiss”? Do you detect a dark conspiracy somewhere ?


36 posted on 05/28/2008 4:26:59 AM PDT by fuzzy dunlop
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To: fuzzy dunlop
I recommend an anger management course too.

Considering your posts - you are in no condition to recommend anger management to ANYONE. Do you see/recognize your deep seated anger?

Of course he’s in it to win - and he’s just helped his chances by throwing Hagee under the bus.

Do you detect a dark conspiracy somewhere ?

You are too easily angered and offended to understand somethings - you haven't gotten passed 'surface' yet - and your following statement is just on example. Sometimes, one doesn’t just disagree with something. They find it OFFENSIVE


37 posted on 05/28/2008 6:52:27 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

I’m sorry - your post makes no sense to me. I suggest I leave you to howl at your moon and you leave me with my boiling rage. Further dialogue is probably imppossible at this point.

M’kay ?


38 posted on 05/28/2008 7:29:31 AM PDT by fuzzy dunlop
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To: fuzzy dunlop
I’m sorry - your post makes no sense to me.

Not 'surface' enough for you? I couldn't have made it any easier. Perhaps, it's more that your own anger was exposed - so the 'no comprehende' comment was an easy out.

bye fuzzy.
39 posted on 05/28/2008 9:22:32 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: GaryWiram
" I, also, believe the Bible and what it tells us about the nature of God. As an example, in Romans 8:28, we’re told, “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.”"

The Bible also says if you reject Jesus you reject God and thus are not subject to provisions of Romans 8:28

40 posted on 05/28/2008 9:31:28 PM PDT by joebuck (Finitum non capax infinitum!)
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To: E. Cartman

“You’re not on my ping list”

Then why was I pinged to your post 11?

“if-he’s-got-the-magic-R-behind-his-name-it’s-only-good-and-I’ll-vote-for-him-no-matter-what “

Do you know of any candidates in the General Election who are better than the one with the R behind his name?


41 posted on 05/29/2008 6:28:47 AM PDT by death2tyrants
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To: presently no screen name

I’ll just leave this one for the lurkers to enjoy !!

bye pnsn


42 posted on 05/29/2008 2:32:29 PM PDT by fuzzy dunlop
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