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Obama's "birth certificate" - the Devil's in the details
Article 2, Sect 1, Clause 5 (Natural Born Citizen) ^ | 11/28/08 | Robert Reece

Posted on 11/28/2008 8:52:27 AM PST by BP2

Obama's "birth certificate" - the devil's in the details

The “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” is a portion of the Hawaiian “birth certificate” program that family members may have used to register a young Barack Obama as a US Citizen, during the era Hawaii was transitioning from being a US territory to statehood.

For the purposes of this article, it should be noted that there are several different types of "birth certificates" that Hawaii uses to show proof of birth:

- Certification of Live Birth
- Certificate of Live Birth
- Certificate of Delayed Birth
- Certificate of Hawaiian Birth

To be distinct and precise in terminology, there is no official document called a “birth certificate” in Hawaii. The term is loosely used to describe a certificated proof of birth. (In fact, if you take a look at your “birth certificate” that you may have tucked away in a safe place, it probably says, “Certificate of Live Birth” at the very top of the form.)

The “Certificate of Live Birth,” sometimes called the “long form,” or “vault copy” birth certificate shows details such as the hospital, doctor or midwife’s names, witness signatures, etc. This, by the way, is what John McCain released earlier in the year to the general public:



Since this summer, Obama has shown the “Certification of Live Birth” on his website.


The computer-generated “Certification of Live Birth” is used by the state of Hawaii IN LIEU OF the “Certificate of Live Birth,” or if originally filed, a “Delayed Certificate of Birth,” or even a “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth.” For verification purposes, however, the “Certification of Live Birth” does not indicate which birth record “root document(s)” that the Certification is based upon.


Hawaiian “birth certificate” history

Few official birth certificates existed at the turn of the century, and the few that were filed may have listed only the person’s first name. Hawaiian law established the “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” program in 1911. The program permitted a person born in Hawaii who was one year or older, and whose birth had not been previously registered in Hawaii, to be registered by a family or guardian. Hawaii had just been annexed in 1898 and was a US territory, so documenting residents made sense. With families moving between the islands, or having children without the aid of a hospital or doctor, the “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” allowed the new territory to capture names for census, voting, property ownership and of course, taxation.

The “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” application was a very basic form which was little more than a personal affidavit and might have little if any verifiable info of the birth. For example, Sun Yat-sen, Chinese revolutionary and political leader often referred to as the “Father of Modern China,” was able to file a “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” application and immigrate to the US in 1904 using the form.

Once processed, Sun Yat-sen’s application became a true "Certificate of Hawaiian Birth":



As the decades passed, the “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” Application and Certification process became more formalized. For example, this is the 1946 “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” application from Masayoshi Mitose, credited for having brought Kenpo martial arts to the US in the 1930s:


As is evident on Mitose’s supplemental data seems to indicate, the more detailed the support documentation, the greater likelihood the certificate would be accepted by the Secretary of Hawaii, and later, the Department of Health.


When Hawaii became a state in 1959, there were many people residing there who may not have had a filed birth certificate, but did possess a “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth.” Any person to whom a “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” had been issued could request to amendment, including a legal change of name, via a “Late Birth Certificate.”

By applying for a “Late Birth Certificate” issued in lieu of a “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth,” changes could be made to the official records of that person that were filed using the previously-submitted form. The “Late Birth Certificate” would be treated more like the more-legitimate “Certificate of Live Birth,” even though several years may have passed, memories faded and accounts changed regarding the events surrounding the birth.

To make changes to the “birth certificate” on file, an applicant would be required to submit documentary evidence of the birth facts, often in the form of a questionnaire and affidavits, to support the registration of the “Late Certificate of Birth.” On a small island, in a time devoid of computers and databases, verification was a little harder to come by than today. Also almost like a small town, people knew each other and were probably not highly suspicious of forgery or incomplete birth records.

Once approved, the “Late Birth Certificate” would be registered in the official birth records in place of the “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth.” Under existing policy, the “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” and supplementary data would then be surrendered to the Department of Health, assumedly to be archived.

The “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” Program was terminated in 1972 when, among other reasons, the law required the U.S. Social Security Administration to issue Social Security numbers and to obtain more stringent evidence of age and citizenship or alien status and identity. It is not publically known how many citizens possess the “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth,” or how many people used Hawaiian law to modify their birth records to reflect a “Certificate of Delayed Birth” on file in place of the previous form.

American citizenship has always been seen as being highly sought after for political freedom and economic opportunity. Laws similar the “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” existed for Guam and other American territories.

By today’s standards, compared to the “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” era of non-computerized record keeping of 1972 and before, it would seem relatively difficult to “slip in” using Hawaiian law to prove US Citizenship, especially if the child had not be born on Hawaii.

However, even today’s Hawaiian state law provides for the issuance of “birth certificates” if the child is born out of state, and potentially out of the US, as long as the legal parents can show Hawaii as their legal residence:

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State.
(a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child. (emphasis added)


How this affects Barack Obama

Barack Obama, born in 1961, has shown the world his “short form birth certificate,” or “Certification of Live Birth”:


For comparison, here’s an example of the more-detailed “vault copy” of a “Certificate of Live Birth”:


A very important point to note is that a “Certification of Live Birth” is an abbreviated version of the birth record on file with the Hawaiian Department of Health. The root document(s), could be: a) a true “Certificate of Live Birth”; b) a “Late Birth Certificate” with or without modifications; or c) a “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth.”

A “Certification of Live Birth” may reflect data that had been changed over time, and does not provide corroborated testimony such as dates, locations, change in paternal identification, and witnesses. Any record that amendments had been submitted and information changed is not shown on the “Certification of Live Birth,” which is laser printed on special green stock paper, and lacks detailed information that would be expected from a true “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth,” or “Certificate of Delayed Birth.”

Recent Statements Regarding Obama's "Birth Certificate"

Knowing the intricacies of the Hawaiian “birth certificate” adds mystery instead of resolution with Obama birth record critics, especially when applied to statements provided by Hawaiian officials before the Presidential election.

On Oct. 31, after being inundated by requests for more details about Obama’s birth records, Department of Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said she and registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, had personally verified that the Health Department possesses Obama's original birth certificate.

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures," Fukino said.

The cryptic and carefully-worded statement offered no true details of the “birth certificate,” and leads to more questions than answers among critics. In July, when Barack Obama’s Certification of Live Birth” was first distributed publically on the internet, Hawaiian Department of Health spokeswoman Janice Okubo simply asserted to the St. Petersburg Times, “it’s a valid Hawaii state birth certificate.”

Although officials are on record that there is an original “birth certificate” held by the state, and that it is correctly filed according to Hawaii state directives. However, the specifics of the type of “birth certificate” records on file, with modifications, as well as the details and accounts of witnesses, is still unknown at this time.


Credibility of the "Certification of Live Birth"

The computer-generated “Certification of Live Birth” was first used in November 2001 to allow the State of Hawaii to pull up birth records quicker for people requesting a “birth certificate” in person. At the very bottom of the form are the words, “This copy serves as prima facia evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding.” [HRS 338-13(b), 338-19]."

However, despite this written notice on the form, some Hawaii state agencies do not accept the “Certification of Live Birth” as irrefutable verification of Hawaiian birth. There have been numerous cases when the Hawaii Family Court System required more detailed data for paternity suits. Additionally, the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands provides the following guidelines to Hawaiian natives applying for Hawaiian Home Lands homestead:

The primary documents used to show you are of age and a qualified native Hawaiian are:
- A certified copy of Certificate of Birth;
- A certified copy of Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, including testimonies; or
- A certified copy of Certificate of Delayed Birth.

“In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.” (emphasis added)

Additionally, the “Certification of Live Birth” is not recognized by many Federal agencies. DoD 5220.22-M, the "National Industrial Security Program Operating Manual," provides baseline standards for the protection of classified information released or disclosed to industry. “Unified Facilities Guide Specifications,” section 1.5.22.2 allows for a total of 18 different means to verify US citizenship, ranging from a military ID card to even a “Hawaii certificate of foreign birth.” The “Certification of Live Birth” is not on the list of approved documents acceptable for proof of Citizenship.


Persisting questions and Constitutional Problems

Although some vetting took place in summer 2008 after Barrack Obama’s “Certification of Live Birth,” most media outlets and online bloggers failed to explore the unique aspects and varieties of Hawaiian “birth certificates.” Unfortunately, the birth certificate issue may cause a Constitutional crisis if Obama is determined to be other than a “Natural Born Citizen,” as Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 of the US Constitution requires.

One potential problem might involve a name change to “Barry Soetoro” when attending elementary school in Indonesia, which may have occurred if there was an amendment in Obama’s birth record. Some accounts of Obama’s youth indicate his name may have been changed to. A name change would also need to be legally registered in court.

Verbal accounts by some of Obama’s family reportedly indicate Obama’s birthplace was either Kapiolani or Queens Hospital in Hawaii on Aug. 8, 1961. However, no birthing records reportedly can be found in either of the two hospitals, and no records seem to exist that list Obama’s mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, as a patient at either hospital. Also, no medical staff has come forward to offer affidavits of Obama’s birth. A birth announcement appeared in the Aug. 13, 1963 edition of the Honolulu Advertiser, however, it’s not definitive if the announcement was placed by the Department of Vital Statistics or a family member. If the latter is true, it’s plausible that Obama and mother may not have been on the island at the time of birth.

Depending on the events and timing, the “birth certificate” issue could impact the outcome of the Presidential election if Obama’s records are incomplete and do not match the name on Certified ballots. State Secretary of State laws differ on this subject, but could have an effect on Electoral Collage delegates and how they might be allowed to vote on Dec. 15.

At this time, at least 17 lawsuits are pending in various state and federal courts. Additionally, it’s been rumored online that some Electoral College delegates may make requests to see details of Obama’s birth records. Some court cases are destined to be dismissed, while others may lead to a final show-down between Obama and his birth certificate critics.

According to a lawsuit by Philip Berg that is before the Supreme Court on appeal, Berg states that Obama’s mother was in Kenya during her pregnancy, and was prevented from flying back to Hawaii because of flight restrictions to prevent births in flight. Berg alleges Obama’s paternal grandmother, half-brother, and half-sister have stated that Obama was born in Kenya. Shortly after giving birth, Obama’s mother flew to Hawaii to register the birth. Justice Souter dismissed the case on Nov. 3. However, Supreme Court rules state that “any brief in opposition shall be filed within 30 days after the case is placed on the docket.” All parties, the Democratic National Committee, the Federal Elections Committee, Obama, and others are to respond to the court case dismissed by the Third Circuit by December 1.

Additional credibility issues arise depending on the details of Obama’s “vault copy” birth certificate and how it would hold up to a Constitutional challenge of Natural Born Citizenship. As former Ambassador and 2008 Presidential candidate Alan Keyes outlines in his pending lawsuit with the California Secretary of State: “a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth was the result of the uncorroborated testimony of one witness and was not generated by a hospital. Such a Certificate could be obtained up to one year from the date of the child’s birth. For that reason, its value as prima facie evidence is limited and could be overcome if any of the allegations of substantial evidence of birth outside Hawaii can be obtained.”

In a lesser-known case with potentially earth shattering consequences, the US Supreme Court is set to have a closed-door Conference to evaluate if they wish to further explore the Constitutional-status of Barack Obama, John McCain and Roger Calero as Natural Born Citizens. In contrast to Keyes case and more than a dozen cases pending on the Presidential election, Leo C. Donofrio uniquely alleges Obama’s dual citizenship status at birth with the US and Kenya is prohibited by the Framers of the Constitution because of their concern of “divided loyalties” and “foreign influence.” The case of Donofrio vs. the New Jersey Secretary of State, has the potential to put the final election results on hold, leading up to Electoral College voting on Dec. 15, and Inauguration Day on Jan. 20.

Immediately before Thanksgiving Day, another appeal was added to the US Supreme Court which directly challenges the “Certification of Live Birth” that appears on Obama's website. In the case, Cort Wrotnowski alleges Connecticut Secretary of the State Susan Bysiewicz should not have placed Obama’s name on the ballot without verifying the authenticity of Obama’s birth certificate. “It’s a fundamental point, which is this document has not been produced,” Wrotnowski said. “I’m not the first, not the last, just among a growing number of people across the country who’ve become distressed about the lack of disclosure.”


Conclusion

Given many the many rumors swirling about Barack Obama’s youth, his and his mother’s travels between Africa, Indonesia, Hawaii and Washington State, his father’s Kenyan citizenship, family eye-witness accounts that Barack was born in Kenya, and other inconsistencies, speculation on the known facts is rampant. Critics estimate Obama and his campaign has spent nearly $1 million dodging the issue of the details behind his “birth certificate.”

Critics should be asking the correct questions with their requests to see the "birth certificate." As this article has shown, the root document(s) may be something other than a true “Certificate of Live Birth.”

To have a FULL accounting, the "birth certificate" is NOT enough. The ENTIRE "birth record" on file with the Secretary of Health Vital Statistics Office, as well as any archived files with the former "Secretary of Hawaii" (as was the procedure under the Organic Act of 1900), should be examined to determine if a “Late Birth Certificate” with modifications, or a “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” is present or has been archived away from the "vault copy."

Even in the event of an adoption, which is a possibility, the entire records can still be unsealed with a court order so that officials who have the Constitutional requirement to verify a candidate's qualifications may review the document. This is not to conduct a "witch hunt" -- but should be done in the venue of "due diligence," to put this issue to rest.

To silence the questions of his birth records and citizenship, as well as lessen his legal jeopardy in regard to his eligibility to hold the office of President, perhaps Obama’s best course of action would seem that he reveals the details of his birth record. In doing so, he would be able to put to rest doubts that have hounded him for years. Leaving the questions unanswered may well taint the legitimacy of his Presidency for years to come.



TOPICS: Government; History; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: birthcertificate; certifigate; lawsuit; naturalborncitizen; obama; obamatransitionfile; obamatruthfile; scotus
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(Just go past the "Possible Blogger Terms of Service Violations" -- all new blogs get that notice.)

This article goes in A LOT greater detail than I've seen elsewhere about the intricacies of the Hawaiian birth certificate program.

There's LOTs of different ways that Barry can hide true birth records history.

As the article says, "Critics should be asking the correct questions..."

1 posted on 11/28/2008 8:52:27 AM PST by BP2
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To: BP2

I am thankful for people whogive us food for thought:

Dr. Polarik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDIVEfVGLBQ&eurl=&feature=player_embedded

and

James David Manning PHD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJc6uczdhE0

Boom Chaka Laka Brother!


2 posted on 11/28/2008 8:54:49 AM PST by chicagolady (Mexican Elite say: EXPORT Poverty Let the American Taxpayer foot the bill !)
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To: BP2
The truth is Obama is not a citizen by birth. He can continue the fight in the courts for years; and probably get by with it.

Remember the medias LOVE him.

3 posted on 11/28/2008 8:59:52 AM PST by geologist (The only answer to the troubles of this life is Jesus. A decision we all must make.)
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To: BP2

The article says — “To silence the questions of his birth records and citizenship, as well as lessen his legal jeopardy in regard to his eligibility to hold the office of President, perhaps Obama’s best course of action would seem that he reveals the details of his birth record. In doing so, he would be able to put to rest doubts that have hounded him for years. Leaving the questions unanswered may well taint the legitimacy of his Presidency for years to come.”

Well, yeah..., every law that Obama signs, every law that Congress passes — will all be challeged by someone, somewhere, in that it’s not a valid law because there is evidence that Obama is not a natural-born citizen and that he has done nothing to disprove this evidence, legally....

Look for lawsuits continuously on every piece of legislation throughout any term that Obama occupies that office.


4 posted on 11/28/2008 9:01:24 AM PST by Star Traveler
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To: chicagolady

You said — “Boom Chaka Laka Brother!”

Amen to that... LOL. I like that black preacher... :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJc6uczdhE0


5 posted on 11/28/2008 9:06:34 AM PST by Star Traveler
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To: BP2

Interesting research. Chances of seeing the legitimate certificate of birth from Kenya, Hawaii, Indonesia or wherever are now probably slim to none, unfortunately, but the questions should continue to be asked.


6 posted on 11/28/2008 9:07:08 AM PST by kevinm13 (John 8:32: "And you will know the truth and the truth shall set you free.”)
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To: BP2
To silence the questions of his birth records and citizenship, as well as lessen his legal jeopardy in regard to his eligibility to hold the office of President, perhaps Obama’s best course of action would seem that he reveals the details of his birth record. In doing so, he would be able to put to rest doubts that have hounded him for years. Leaving the questions unanswered may well taint the legitimacy of his Presidency for years to come.

Until Obama does this I'm going to assume that the claims of forgery in the BC Obama submitted in June and a Obama Kenyan birth are a very real possibility.

7 posted on 11/28/2008 9:07:25 AM PST by TruthWillWin
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To: BP2

Dec 5th approaches. Let us hope and pray that at least five justices do not allow a Kenyan national to become our President.


8 posted on 11/28/2008 9:07:48 AM PST by PeterFinn (Where in the world was Obama born? Will we ever know?)
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To: BP2
Here is a site to sign a petition demanding Obama provide a vault copy of his BC. Sign the petition and also provide a zip code and the site will generate an email and/or letter and send it to your congressperson:

Stop the Obama Constitutional Crisis Sign the Petition : 121,065 Letters and Emails Sent So Far

9 posted on 11/28/2008 9:08:44 AM PST by TruthWillWin
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To: BP2

Suspend the Constitution, then this particular requirement will not be effective.

Nothing in the Constitution would be effective, in fact.

Go to government by shooting from the hip, making it up as you go along.

Works in Zimbabwe. Even in South Africa, if I recall correctly.


10 posted on 11/28/2008 9:17:50 AM PST by alloysteel (Molon labe! Roughly translated, "Come and take them!" referring to personal weapons.)
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To: Star Traveler; ckilmer; freepersup; Frantzie; pissant; Lmo56; STARWISE; SE Mom; Bahbah; ...
For example, Sun Yat-sen, Chinese revolutionary and political leader often referred to as the “Father of Modern China,” was able to file a “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” application and immigrate to the US in 1904 using the form.

Good to know the “Father of Modern China” and Obama may have something in common. They might have become US citizens via the same mechanism - the Certificate of Hawaiian Birth ...

11 posted on 11/28/2008 9:18:34 AM PST by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: BP2
"(In fact, if you take a look at your “birth certificate” that you may have tucked away in a safe place, it probably says, “Certificate of Live Birth” at the very top of the form.)"

Actually, I did get mine out and look a few weeks ago and was surprised to see that document itself does not contain a title of any kind.

The certification by the State Registrar of Vital Statistics and the State Commissioner of Health, contains a note that says "if this is a copy of a birth record, any agreement of or difference between the child's surname and the surname of its father does not imply legitimacy or illegitimacy. This is merely a copy of the information suppllied for the preparation of the original birth certificate."

Birth certificates, no matter what they are called within a specific jurisdiction, are going to vary from state to state and could possibly even vary between counties in a particular state. Some people have a difficult time getting their heads around that concept.

12 posted on 11/28/2008 9:20:09 AM PST by JustaDumbBlonde (America: Home of The Free Because of The Brave)
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To: BP2

Both are commies too, I reckon.


13 posted on 11/28/2008 9:20:32 AM PST by pissant (THE Conservative party: www.falconparty.com)
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To: TruthWillWin
Until Obama does this I'm going to assume that the claims of forgery in the BC Obama submitted in June and a Obama Kenyan birth are a very real possibility.

There is no doubt left in my mind on the former, and I'm about 90% convinced of the latter.

MM (in TX)

14 posted on 11/28/2008 9:21:29 AM PST by MississippiMan
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To: BP2

I don’t care who you are or where you live, look at your own BC. I am 45 had to get a copy of mine recently. Obviously it is the short form. The one thing that is blaring on his is lack of SIGNATURES. I am not even talking about the Dr. but any official document you get from the state has a signature and seal. The signature is from the State Registrar from the Office of Vital Records and the person who issued it to you. They also say on them NOT VALID UNLESS EMBOSSED WITH A RAISED SEAL. Mine also says, this is to Certify that this is a true reproduction of the original record on file with the state office of vital records.

What he presented as PROOF, I could do myself on the computer.


15 posted on 11/28/2008 9:26:53 AM PST by panthermom
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To: BP2

Good stuff on Plains Radio the last two nights with Leo’s. essentially one of the men who wrote the 14th Amnednment pointed out that natural born citizen may require 2 American born parents. Someone found a case with Justice John Paul Stevens (oldest on the court) essentially backing Leo’s case.

Also Scalia was on CSPAN giving a speech at a dinner right after Leo’s case. He said they no longer look at Common Law and I forget the other details but it would be supportive of Leo’s case.

A few people who listen to Plains Radio have been doing legal research on their own. They have been coming up with great legal research to support Leo’s case.


16 posted on 11/28/2008 9:27:21 AM PST by Frantzie
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To: BP2
Critics estimate Obama and his campaign has spent nearly $1 million dodging the issue of the details behind his birth certificate.

At first this "Obama birth certificate" business seem like so much BS...

But for Obama to NOT provide the full paper trail just to be done with it?... What there that he does not want found out?

The thing is at this late date, if he WAS found to be constitutionally ineligible to be president, and the supreme court ruled an such... there be a full blown civil war by the left wing Obamabots

My bet, if there is something there, the power that be will hide it...

And if Obama does "go right"(to any degree) the left wing Obamabots will also believed there hiding something on "birth certificate" issue and he being blackmailed by the "evil right"

17 posted on 11/28/2008 9:28:05 AM PST by tophat9000 ( Note: To Obama's Thugocracys... We are all " joe the plumber "...)
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To: BP2
Obama’s best course of action would seem that he reveals the details of his birth record. In doing so, he would be able to put to rest doubts that have hounded him for years.

Revealing the details his birth record could unravel this guy's entire history which he clearly has sought to hide. I hope the true extent of his deceit will eventually come to light.

Thank you for posting.

18 posted on 11/28/2008 9:28:51 AM PST by Starboard
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To: BP2; Calpernia; Fred Nerks; null and void; pissant; george76; Polarik; PhilDragoo; Candor7; ...
BP2, thank you for an excellent article, and thanks for the ping.

Pinging The List.

19 posted on 11/28/2008 9:30:35 AM PST by LucyT (.......................Don't go wobbly now.......................)
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To: BP2; LucyT

EXCELLENT!!!

Also, the Selective Service Registration fraud is finally catching up.

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2008/11/obama-selective-service-registration-another-obama-record-another-question/

Please pass it around.


20 posted on 11/28/2008 9:34:01 AM PST by autumnraine (Churchill: " we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall never surrender")
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To: pissant
Very little has been posted on the Hawaiian "Certificate of Delayed Birth."

I've never seen any images of one, and it would certainly explain why Obama may not have wanted us to see what he has on file with Vital Statistics. Also helps him to "hide" any other certificates in the file.

By applying for a “Late Birth Certificate” issued in lieu of a “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth,” changes could be made to the official records of that person that were filed using the previously-submitted form. The “Late Birth Certificate” would be treated more like the more-legitimate “Certificate of Live Birth,” even though several years may have passed, memories faded and accounts changed regarding the events surrounding the birth.

How to Apply for the Issuance of a Late Birth Certificate in Lieu of a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth

Upon receiving a request to amend an entry on an existing Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, the Registration Unit of the Office of Health Status Monitoring will send:

  1. notification to the requestor that the amendment request is treated as an application for registration of a late certificate of birth, and
  2. instructions on procedures for and submission of required documentary evidence in support of registration of a late certificate of birth.

If the amendment request is subsequently withdrawn, all documents received in support of the amendment will be returned. If the requestor elects to proceed with the application for registration of a late certificate of birth, the documentary evidence submitted in support of registration will be reviewed and evaluated for adequacy. If the application is approved, a late birth certificate will be issued and the original Certificate of Hawaiian Birth issued to the applicant must be surrendered to, for cancellation by, the Department of Health.

21 posted on 11/28/2008 9:36:37 AM PST by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: autumnraine

the one thing people fail to remember! OBAMA IS A CONSTITUTIONAL LAWYER!! HE KNOWS HE DOESNT QUALIFY!!!!


22 posted on 11/28/2008 9:36:44 AM PST by remaxagnt
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To: BP2

Wouldn’t Stanley Ann’s passport records be dispositive? (And interesting.) Perhaps Obama went to see his grandma to obtain his mom’s passport.


23 posted on 11/28/2008 9:42:23 AM PST by Poincare
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Thanks LucyT.


24 posted on 11/28/2008 9:43:05 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile finally updated Saturday, October 11, 2008 !!!)
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To: tophat9000

>>> And if Obama does “go right”(to any degree) the left wing Obamabots will also believed there hiding something on “birth certificate” issue

Well, not sure about him leaning to the Right on us, but he’s pretty much already promising a “chicken in every pot” in his “Office of the President-Elect” speeches!


25 posted on 11/28/2008 9:44:33 AM PST by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: BP2
This is an excellent piece of work and thanks for putting it up!

Any rational talk show host that sees this will be derelict in his/her duty to discuss this topic. It's been avoided way too long.

26 posted on 11/28/2008 9:44:45 AM PST by rodguy911 (HOME OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE--GO SARAHCUDA !!)
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To: BP2; Squantos

The National Enquirer and Star, etc, should get on this ...it would sell tons of paper.

“Possible birth abnormality concealed...”
“No Birth Certificate...Is He a Hermophrodite?”

“Is he from the Planet.”

“Changes we don’t now about..?”


27 posted on 11/28/2008 9:45:49 AM PST by fishhound (Obama and company are trying to FOCAround with the Church.)
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To: Star Traveler

Wow excellent point,I still say he will try and get by without providinn any true documents, only forgeries.


28 posted on 11/28/2008 9:46:25 AM PST by rodguy911 (HOME OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE--GO SARAHCUDA !!)
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To: Poincare

Very good question. What happened to the passport? Also wonder if there are any records concerning her from the US embassy there.


29 posted on 11/28/2008 9:46:29 AM PST by Starboard
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To: PeterFinn

I think I read it only takes 4 to agree to hear the suit.
Maybe I am wrong.


30 posted on 11/28/2008 9:47:43 AM PST by rodguy911 (HOME OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE--GO SARAHCUDA !!)
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To: BP2
bookmarked
Photobucket
31 posted on 11/28/2008 9:49:29 AM PST by Canedawg (The media is a ass, a idiot.," said Mr. Bumble.)
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To: BP2

ping


32 posted on 11/28/2008 9:54:05 AM PST by outofsalt ("If History teaches us anything it's that history rarely teaches us anything")
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To: BP2
absolutely this has been my thinking as well!! Many of his appointments have been simply to get “us” off his back. The most blatant of all is defense(for one year of course) but this guy and his handlers are the slickest ever.
33 posted on 11/28/2008 9:54:05 AM PST by rodguy911 (HOME OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE--GO SARAHCUDA !!)
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To: Poincare; pissant
Anyone actually able to put their hands on a copy of Stanley Ann Dunham's 1067-pages-long dissertation, “Peasant Blacksmithing”?

There might be some important facts, previously overlooked, in the “Forward” or “Biography” sections about Ann's travels, or about Barack Sr in Kenya. Facts that could be helpful in upcoming Supreme Court cases.

It's on microfiche at University of Hawaii at Manoa, call number "MICROFICHE D32047". I've been trying to put my hands on one of the SIX hard copies that exist in the WORLD of her thesis, with no luck yet....

Can a Hawaiian Freeper check that out for us?


34 posted on 11/28/2008 9:56:53 AM PST by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: BP2

Unfortunately (for us) even if Obama was born in Kenya the records are now long gone. He campaigned for his cousin there and it’s no stretch to believe that his cousin would now help him.

The fix is in!


35 posted on 11/28/2008 9:59:21 AM PST by oldfart (Obama nation = abomination. Think about it!)
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To: fishhound

LOL..... All that matters now is the supreme decision.


36 posted on 11/28/2008 10:06:12 AM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: BP2

These intricacies may be why ICE started investigating Hawaii for illegal immigration practices back over the summer.


37 posted on 11/28/2008 10:06:30 AM PST by Calpernia (Hunters Rangers - Raising the Bar of Integrity http://www.barofintegrity.us)
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To: panthermom

They claim it was done on the back and nothing bled through.

Google Glen Beck’s “Obama unluckiest man ever” and add this one to it. So sad, the seal and signature didn’t bleed through the front. It’s CRYSTAL clear in the font and type, but the scanner didn’t pick up a pressed in seal and signature.


38 posted on 11/28/2008 10:12:18 AM PST by autumnraine (Churchill: " we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall never surrender")
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To: Calpernia

Here is the “boom shaka laka” preacher with a less emotional description of the mess that we are in. These two video’s probably raise even more questions, but they are VERY good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1spPrzvYWRI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8b_usFyLHQ&feature=related


39 posted on 11/28/2008 10:12:43 AM PST by Free America52
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To: chicagolady

40 posted on 11/28/2008 10:13:49 AM PST by Calpernia (Hunters Rangers - Raising the Bar of Integrity http://www.barofintegrity.us)
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To: Star Traveler

Why? No one challenged anything he did as an IL Senator. And he even admitted there were issues with his citizenship during a debate with Alan Keyes and Jack Ryan.


41 posted on 11/28/2008 10:16:22 AM PST by Calpernia (Hunters Rangers - Raising the Bar of Integrity http://www.barofintegrity.us)
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To: LucyT

Thanks, LucyT

MSM are COWARDS for not reporting this and other Obama lies Ping.


42 posted on 11/28/2008 10:17:14 AM PST by Iowan
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To: Calpernia

You asked — “Why? No one challenged anything he did as an IL Senator. And he even admitted there were issues with his citizenship during a debate with Alan Keyes and Jack Ryan.”

That’s because there wouldn’t be anything to be legally challenged in his birth certificate (as a natural-born citizen) as an Illinois Senator. But, there is something to be legally challenged, in that regard, as President of the United States (per the Constitution...).


43 posted on 11/28/2008 10:24:23 AM PST by Star Traveler
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To: oldfart

Yeah a lot of old leads were covered up.

The MSM keeps saying the BC issue had been vetted -- no, they just didn't do any real investigation work beyond the official AP news releases.

Lots of other leads that Hillary supporters had up until the DNC Convention had been overlooked or stopped by the Obots.

But the thing about conspiracies is that it's hard to cover-up EVERY lead.


44 posted on 11/28/2008 10:29:46 AM PST by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: Star Traveler

You would be right if Obama was a ‘naturalized citizen’ while holding a senatorial office.

But, since there is no documentation to prove that, he may be an illegal alien (actually, I say enemy combatant).

THAT would be challengable as an IL senator.


45 posted on 11/28/2008 10:30:31 AM PST by Calpernia (Hunters Rangers - Raising the Bar of Integrity http://www.barofintegrity.us)
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To: Calpernia

This is a most excellent article.

Tremendous research! It provides sources for a few of the things we’ve been saying about the more relaxed atmosphere of the 1960s surrounding documents and birth certificates.

A reference piece that is valuable. Thanks!

Two thumbs up.


46 posted on 11/28/2008 10:39:07 AM PST by mondoreb (Proud to be "half-baked".)
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To: Star Traveler
And he even admitted there were issues with his citizenship during a debate with Alan Keyes and Jack Ryan

I've never actually been able to find this referrence. Does it REALLY exist? (I thought it was just Obat disinformation).


47 posted on 11/28/2008 10:39:14 AM PST by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: Calpernia

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


48 posted on 11/28/2008 10:50:02 AM PST by chicagolady (Mexican Elite say: EXPORT Poverty Let the American Taxpayer foot the bill !)
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To: oldfart

Actually, the Brits would have at least some type of records. Kenya was a UK Colony at the time of 0’s birth up until he was approximately 2 years old.


49 posted on 11/28/2008 10:51:32 AM PST by Shady Ray
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To: BP2
Sun Yat Sen! Great article that explains why China-born Sun Yat Sen and others have used the easy path that Hawaii's birth certification process provided -- at least through 1972 to gain fraudulent US citizenship status. It is worth some time to cover Sun Yat-sen's bio. It has certain analogy to current Obama questions.
Extracts from a biography on Answers.com

Sun Yat-sen was born on Nov. 12, 1866 [bvw -- his Hawaiian birth cert claims he was born Nov. 24, 1876! Obama's date is in question too, but not off by ten years.], into a peasant household Kwangtung [bvw --a province of China]. His early education, like his birthplace, established him as a man of two worlds, China and the West. After a rudimentary training in the Chinese classics in his village school, he was sent to Hawaii in 1879 [bvw -- how like Obama's early years in Indonesian learning Islam, a child of two worlds!], to join his émigré elder brother. There he enrolled at an Anglican college where he studied Western science and religion. Upon graduation in 1882, he returned to his native village, but he soon was banished for defacing the village idols.

Sun spent the formative years of his late teens and early 20s studying [medicine] in Hong Kong.

By the spring of 1893 [bvw-- age 26, corresponding to Obam's Colombia years], he had become more interested in politics than in medicine. Sun returned to Hawaii to organize the Hsing-chung hui (Revive China Society) [bvw -- "Community organizing" of a sort]. When the Sino-Japanese War appeared to present possibilities for the overthrow of the Manchus, Sun returned to Hong Kong and reorganized the Hsing-chung hui as a revolutionary secret society [bvw --the Weathermen of the day] . An uprising was planned in Canton in 1895 but was discovered, and several of Sun's comrades were executed. Having become a marked man, Sun fled and found refuge in Japan.

The pattern for Sun's career was established: hastily organized plots, failures, execution of co-conspirators, overseas wanderings in search of sanctuary and financial backing for further coups [bvw -- sort of like Obam'a pal and mentor William Ayers]. Sun grew a moustache, donned Western-style clothes, and, posing as a Japanese, set out once again, first to Hawaii, then to San Francisco, and finally to England to visit Cantlie. There he was kidnaped by the Chinese legation and held captive pending deportation back to China. Rescued at the last minute through the efforts of Cantlie, he emerged from captivity with an international reputation enhanced by his own account of the event, Kidnapped in London (1897) [bvw -- sort of like "Dreams of My Father"]. Before leaving England, he frequented the reading room of the British Museum [bvw- in Dreams Obama claims to have spent his Colombia years in the college library], where he became acquainted with the writings of Karl Marx [bvw -- Marx again!].

In July 1897 Sun returned to Japan, where he adopted the pseudonym Nakayama (Chinese, Chung-shan). He also attracted the support of prominent Japanese Sinophiles, liberals, and adventurers who hoped that Japan, by promoting political change in China, could build an Asian bloc against the West. [bvw -- Change! And an alliance with plotters like Soros et al.]

[...] By the time he arrived back in China on Christmas Day, rebellion had spread through the Yangtze Valley. A tumultuous welcome greeted Sun, and in Nanking, revolutionary delegates from 14 provinces elected him president of a provisional government. On Jan. 1, 1912, Sun Yat-sen proclaimed the establishment of the Republic of China.

[...civil war...] He undertook, moreover, to breathe new life into the faltering Kuomintang and to set in motion a thoroughgoing reorganization of the party. Of equal consequence was Sun's decision to accept support from the Soviet Union Part of the agreement provided for the admission of individual Chinese Communists into the Kuomintang. On Jan. 26, 1923, in a joint manifesto with Sun, Soviet envoy Adolph Joffe guaranteed Russian support for the reunification of China.

By the middle of February 1923 Sun was back again as head of a military government. On October 6 Michael Borodin arrived in Canton, having been sent by the Comintern in response to Sun's request for an adviser on party organization. In January 1924 the first National Congress of the Kuomintang approved a new constitution which remodeled the party along Soviet lines. At the top of a tightly disciplined pyramidal structure was to be a Central Executive Committee with bureaus in charge of propaganda, workers, peasants, youth, women, investigation, and military affairs. Sun's Three People's Principles were restated to emphasize anti-imperialism and the leading role of the party.

Well, that's a lot -- please read the whole bio. What parallels to the star-crossed power twins of William Ayers and Barrack Obama!

To the point of the thread note how Sun moved effortlessly from one nation to another, community organizing, power group organizing and playing-off one another, making and breaking alliances, establishing secret organizations. And deftly changing identities!

50 posted on 11/28/2008 10:58:19 AM PST by bvw
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