Obama's "birth certificate" - the Devil's in the details

Article 2, Sect 1, Clause 5 (Natural Born Citizen) ^ | 11/28/08 | Robert Reece

[joygrace]

Anyone actually able to put their hands on a copy of Stanley Ann Dunham’s 1067-pages-long dissertation, “Peasant Blacksmithing”?
There might be some important facts, previously overlooked, in the “Forward” or “Biography” sections about Ann’s travels, or about Barack Sr in Kenya. Facts that could be helpful in upcoming Supreme Court cases.

It’s on microfiche at University of Hawaii at Manoa, call number “MICROFICHE D32047”. I’ve been trying to put my hands on one of the SIX hard copies that exist in the WORLD of her thesis, with no luck yet....

Can a Hawaiian Freeper check that out for us?
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Did you send an email to Andy Martin? Isn’t he the lawyer who has filed petitions in Hawaii? I bet he would search for this document.

You have probably already contacted him but maybe if he couldn’t do it, he would know someone who would retrieve this document since he has made multiple trips to Hawaii?

Who knows... BHO’s fraud perpetrators probably set fire to it so it no longer exists.

[real_patriotic_american]

Obama is hiding something! I don’t believe that he is eligible to serve as President.

http://www.rallycongress.com/constitutional-qualification/1244

[joygrace]

And he even admitted there were issues with his citizenship during a debate with Alan Keyes and Jack Ryan

I’ve never actually been able to find this referrence. Does it REALLY exist? (I thought it was just Obat disinformation).
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BP2, I have never been able to find this information either. WND said this happened in an October, 2004 debate with Keyes and Obama. I watched a debate online at CSPAN archive. The date was 10/26/2004 and it was a sit-down debate held in Chicago.

Perhaps there was another debate in October,2004 that has been scrubbed??? There was something Obama said during this debate which caught my attention.

Obama was asked by the moderator, “what would you do with the Electoral College?”

OBAMA said, “I would eliminate the Electoral College. It’s breaking down.” Interesting answer. Telling.

This was a 57 minute debate and this question was part of a quick fire round of questions. The Electoral College question came up at 50:17 minutes into the debate.

I don’t have the specific link handy but you can find the debate on http://www.c-spanarchives.org.

It was cataloged under Product Id: 184143-1.

[autumnraine]

Anyone who thinks Google isn’t censoring, please notice when you click on the link, it says that the use is being investigated for abuse of terms of service!!

[autumnraine]

That one page is the BIGGEST ONE YET!

It is from the Hawaii state department saying that issue a certificate delayed!!

[autumnraine]

That must be why Alan Keyes is so ticked off about him winning. He knows!

[autumnraine]

So the Dept of Defense will not accept a “Certification of Live Birth”, but we are supposed to accept it for POTUS.

[autumnraine]

Yes, and wouldn’t you want to take your fancy American wife to Kenya to meet the in-laws?

[autumnraine]

That “get rid of the electoral college” is interesting. Especially since he is expecting to be considered “President-Elect” before they have even voted.

[nufsed]

He's got to be sweating bullets. He knows the issue is going to the court. He knows the truth. He was in Hawaii before the election. Had to have seen the file. He is not acting like an innoent man.

At this point, based upon the fight he's paying for, he is in big jeopardy. Only the court can save him, by finding some technicality to avoid the central constitutional issue.

[MIAMI-ARMANDO]

This is the last paragraph of an article I found. The birth certificate is only necessary to prove his father was Barrack H. Obama Sr.
If his father was from Kenya, he is ineligeble.

http://federalistblog.us/2008/11/natural-born_citizen_defined.html
By P.A. Madison on November 18, 2008
Therefore, we can say with confidence that a natural-born citizen of the United States means those persons born whose father the United States already has an established jurisdiction over, i.e., born to father’s who are themselves citizens of the United States. A person who had been born under a double allegiance cannot be said to be a natural-born citizen of the United States because such status is not recognized (only in fiction of law). A child born to an American mother and alien father could be said to be a citizen of the United States by some affirmative act of law but never entitled to be a natural-born citizen because through laws of nature the child inherits the condition of their father.

[Windflier]

The thing is at this late date, if he WAS found to be constitutionally ineligible to be president, and the supreme court ruled an such... there be a full blown civil war by the left wing Obamabots

I say let the Orcs bring it to Middle Earth and try our resolve.

[Windflier]

They claim it was done on the back and nothing bled through. So sad, the seal and signature didn’t bleed through the front. It’s CRYSTAL clear in the font and type, but the scanner didn’t pick up a pressed in seal and signature.

Great observation, AR.

The scanner also didn't pick up the paper creases, which are deeply impressed, and clearly shown in the photographs of "the same document".

[autumnraine]

Exactly! So did they fold it afterward? Pretty clear scan to be so folded and sealed.

[Windflier]

But the thing about conspiracies is that it's hard to cover-up EVERY lead.

I've been thinking tonight that it's quite possible that no one's minding the minders in the Hawaiian records offices.

With a possible constitutional crisis looming, or even a full-blown illegal theft of a US election through fraud, you'd think that the US Marshalls and the FBI would have those offices fully secured by armed personnel with video cameras and bomb-sniffing dogs by now.

Unless those measures are in place, there's no telling what mischief can be done by just a few well-placed individuals.

[autumnraine]

Yes, it seems after they released it on his website, and before factcheck.org got to take some pictures, lots was added that was questioned before.

Have you seen the information on his supposed Selective Service Registration?

[Windflier]

Have you seen the information on his supposed Selective Service Registration?

Yes, and that one has at least as many inconsistencies as the phony bc does.

Registration numbers wrong, dates wrong, PO stamp wrong, wrong form, etc. It appears to me that all of this was cobbled together hastily by rank amateurs who thought they could outsmart millions of peoples' scrutiny.

I also want to re-stress the importance of the missing paper impressions on the original bc scan. This is a smoking gun of magnitude, and is prima facie evidence of the commission of the federal offense of forgery of a government document with intent to defraud.

Let someone from camp Obama try to convince a judge that the bc was only folded after it was scanned into a computer. They can't, because the heavy, embossed seal impression is missing from the original scan, too.

BOOM-SHAKA-LAKA!

[Polarik]

Great article! Very thorough. I have a few questions about what you said.

To have a FULL accounting, the "birth certificate" is NOT enough. The ENTIRE "birth record" on file with the Secretary of Health Vital Statistics Office, as well as any archived files with the former "Secretary of Hawaii" (as was the procedure under the Organic Act of 1900), should be examined to determine if a “Late Birth Certificate” with modifications, or a “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” is present or has been archived away from the "vault copy."

Seems like Hawaii makes a clear distinction between the short-form, Certification of Live Birth, and the "longer, but not long form," Certificate of Live Birth from what they call a "standard birth certificate," which is Hawaii's long-form, Certificate of Live Birth, or the Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, or any complete, original Birth Certificate, or Certificate of Birth (same thing) issued BY ANOTHER STATE OR COUNTRY at the time of birth, signed by the attending doctor, parent(s), and so on.

From my understanding of the Law, there is a big difference between having a "standard birth certificate" on record AND a late registration, Certificate of Live Birth, which is substituted (but is not a substitute) for a nonexistent "standard birth certificate."

According to Vital Records:

A request to amend a Certificate of Live Birth will, however, be considered to be and treated as an application with the Department of Health for registration of a late certificate of birth in current use, unless a standard birth certificate for that person already exists in the vital records of the Department of Health.

If there is a standard birth certificate on record, and the approval is given to amend it with an application for a new Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, THEN the original, standard birth certificate is put in an envelope and sealed, and the existing birth record is updated -- but, it is definitely NOT called an original birth certificate.

If there is NO standard birth certificate on record, and the approval is given to accept a new Certificate of Live Birth, THEN that COB becomes a late birth registration, and the information on it is used to create a new birth record.

BUT, Hawaii DOES NOT label that birth record, a "Standard birth record," because it was created with a late birth, COB.

What if the request for amending the standard birth record is denied? Then the standard birth record remains in force.

What if the request for creating a late birth COB is denied? Then there will be no birth records of any kind.

Again, here are the rules:

If there is no standard birth certificate on file, an applicant is required to submit documentary evidence of the birth facts necessary to support of the registration of the late certificate of birth. If approved, the late birth certificate will be registered in place of the Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, which must then be surrendered to the Department of Health.

What if there was an exisiting birth record, and the request from Obama's mother is approved, but she never surrenders the previous COB or whatever was the standard birth record? I would imagine that the approval would be rescinded, as if it never was approved. Or, perhaps approval is only given contingent upon getting that COB back?

There were two events that might, at least, reduce the possible scenarios.

First off, I'd bet that what turned out to be a rumor, that Gov. Lingle had "sealed" Obama's original birth certificate, was actually a misunderstood communication leaked to the press regarding what was said. Namely, that Obama does have a an "original birth certificate" sitting in a sealed envelope, and THAT is what Directors Fukino and Onaka "formally verified," because (a) there was a sealed envelope, and (b) only the Health Department can seal a birth record.

Now, what's in that "sealed" envelope? I can tell you what is NOT iin that sealed envelope, and that is the bogus information on a forged COLB.

[PhilDragoo]

[Yaelle]

To silence the questions of his birth records and citizenship, as well as lessen his legal jeopardy in regard to his eligibility to hold the office of President, perhaps Obama’s best course of action would seem that he reveals the details of his birth record. In doing so, he would be able to put to rest doubts that have hounded him for years. Leaving the questions unanswered may well taint the legitimacy of his Presidency for years to come.

This is very fascinating. Worth a read just to understand the intricacies of the 20th century Hawaiian birth records "system." No one born before 1971 in Hawaii can have their citizenship accepted without question; a deeper check is needed across the board. Not that such an investigation would take much time or cost much. There's no excuse for the media being blind on this issue. It's more interesting than half of the legal stuff that is pursued on Greta and Nancy Grace et al.