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Some people just hate birthers [Vulgar language alert]
Moonage Political Webdream ^ | August 4, 2001

Posted on 08/04/2009 12:39:32 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

I have to admit, I had never heard the term “birther” before. I don’t watch tv much, so I guess that’s why. Dictionary.com doesn’t have a clue what “birther” is either. So, whenever a word is used I don’t know and dictionary.com doesn’t either, I go to urbandictionary.com. They of course have it. According to them, birther has several definitions:

A conspiracy theorist who believes that Barack Obama is ineligible for the Presidency of the United States, based on any number of claims related to his place of birth, birth certificate, favorite birthday, or whether or not he has heard the song Africa by Toto. “Did you know that Barack Obama’s parents concealed the location of his birth because they knew he would grow up to be President? What? Of course it makes sense, I’m a birther!” barack obama president birth conspiracy Brent Elliott, Dec 8, 2008

A racist sore loser who can’t deal with having a black president so they make up absurd conspiracy theories about Barack Obama’s birth certificate. These nutjobs actually believe that there has been a conspiracy going back 48 years to fake Barack Obama’s birth certificate. Apparently they had a crystal ball and knew that this black child (born in the days of segregation) would someday run for President. “Just ignore that racist nutjob foaming at the mouth. He’s a right wing birther conspiracy nut. gop racist bedwetter nazi klansman self-hating-gay, scoobydubious, Jul 16, 2009

A person who believes that Barack Obama has controversy and/or fraud surrounding his birth, though all theories have been either rejected or proved false. The birthers gathered on the steps of the Supreme Court – all 20 of them. http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/09/birthers-get-another-lifeline/

A redneck born on American soil in a barn delivered by a drunken veterinarian who also performs abortions. Parents are both American citizens who are usually first cousins if not brother and sister. Birthers fought for their right to marry their cousins. hillbilly redneck birth conspiracy obama by billthecat, Jul 28, 2009

A knuckle dragging gutter culture warrior related to tea bagging citizens who don’t want to pay taxes because they don’t support our troops. “Obama’s parents were so smart they planned 50 years ago to have a baby on foreign land and get him elected into the White House so he can raise taxes to pay for our troops. It’s true I am a tea bagging birther” What were those tea bagging protesters complaining about again? Ohh yay they refuse to accept a black man as president and now have resorted to saying Obama can not be president cause he is an illegal alien. Sounds crazy? No I am just a tea bagging “birther.” teabagging obama birther conspiracy nutjob troop hater knuckle dragging

A term for the frothy liquid mixture formed in the vagina when a baby is born. It is a foul smelling combination of maternal blood, vernix, and meconium (baby poop) that drips down over the mother’s anus during the third stage of labor. It is thought to be a contraction of the words “birth” and “lather.”, “Nurse, would you please wipe that birther off the crack of my patient’s a$$? a$$hole dumbf*ck idiot racistfool by drsteevo, Jul 28, 2009

Jargon term, or buzz word used by mainstream media to discredit, and marginalize the legal battle of Philip Berg, a registered democrat operating out of PA. The term was most recently pegged in an attempt to divide, a bi-partisan investigation into the legitimacy of Barack H Obama’s Presidency. If you don’t like mafia leaders, and respect the rule of law, then you are a birther.

So, after seeing that list of definitions submitted by what has to be respected observers of the United States version of the English language, it’s no wonder Eugene Robinson at RealClearPolitics thinks so lowly of birthers as well. He’s a little more kindly, simply calling them “nutjobs” in his opinion piece entitled “The Berserk Birthers”.

Now, this is where it gets kind of crazy for me:

Also beyond the Outer Limits of sanity is CNN anchor Lou Dobbs, who has been giving prime-time exposure to the “birther” lunacy — even while denying that he believes in it. Dobbs’ obsession with the “story” has become an embarrassment to the network, which has tried to position itself as untainted by political bias. CNN/U.S. President Jon Klein has pronounced the story “dead,” but insists that it’s legitimate for Dobbs to examine the alleged controversy, though in fact no controversy exists.

CNN untainted by political bias? Wow! Now THAT’S out there! That’s berserk! That’s something only a nutjob could believe. It gets even better:

Is this an orchestrated campaign to somehow delegitimize Obama’s presidency? Is the fact that he is the first African-American president a factor? Is it that some people can’t or won’t accept that he won the election and serves as commander in chief?

Maybe, maybe not. Trying to analyze the “birther” phenomenon would mean taking it seriously, and taking it seriously would be like arguing about the color of unicorns. About all that can be said is that a bunch of lost, confused and frightened people have decided to seek refuge in conspiratorial make-believe. I hope they’re harmless. And I hope they seek help.

Now, it’s impossible for me to buy for one second CNN ever concerned itself about being unbiased in this last election. I’ve got an entire thread on this blog dedicated to news media political bias, and CNN is all over it. It goes back almost five years of documented cases of bias most usually with documentation proving that bias.

So, here’s the rub I have with this article by Eugene Robinson, if the argument against something neither cites evidence disproving the original argument and uses obviously flawed logic to discredit the original argument, it means the person making the argument really never set out to make any real effort to counter that argument. Monty Python illustrated best in their “taunting Frenchmen” bit on The Holy Grail. Don’t concern yourself with logic, just hurl insults.

And, for Eugene’s enlightenment, the whole birther thing has been kept alive because The White House will not provide a legitimate birth certificate. Now, I carry one in my pocket. It’s not that hard a thing to do. If Obama was the least bit interested in putting this whole birther thing to rest, he would have presented it. As it is, he apparently doesn’t care one way or the other. That’s the boat I’m in. I could care less. But, what I don’t believe in at all is running around hurling insults at people who believe otherwise, either way. Sure, it sounds kinda crazy that some people are making the argument Obama wasn’t born in the United States. But, it sounds even crazier to me that some people think CNN is not politically biased. And, in the big scope of things, which is more realistically dangerous, people of no influence thinking their president was born outside of the United States, or, media people ignoring media bias?


TOPICS: Computers/Internet; Conspiracy; Government; Politics; Reference
KEYWORDS: allahpundit; article2section1; bho44; birthcertificate; birthers; certifigate; charlesjohnson; colb; hillary; hillaryclinton; hotair; lgf; naturalborn; obama; obamanoncitizenissue; pumas
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Oh, we have more influence than we think we do, we just don't know what to do with it. If the presstitutes really thought that the "birthers" were hurting conservatism and the GOP (not always the same thing) they would shut their pieholes and let them be about it.
1 posted on 08/04/2009 12:39:32 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
the whole birther thing has been kept alive because The White House will not provide a legitimate birth certificate.

Thank you. Now was that so very hard?

Could the writer not have cut to the chase and skipped the invective? Its like you have to prove your bona fides to your mates by joining the 3 minute hate before finally, reluctantly, saying "but". Skip everything prior to "but" because its irrelevant.

The guy won't provide his BC. You assume its because he doesn't want to. I assume he doesn't want to because he can't and he dare not. Either way, I'm not crazy for asking just like you aren't crazy for asking.

2 posted on 08/04/2009 12:48:21 PM PDT by marron
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Lots of “mainstream” journalist think exactly the way this guy thinks. His rant was so over the top childish that it would be pointless to engage him in a little debate. Although debate isn’t the right word. There’s just one question this guy should be asked and that is where is the birth certificate?


3 posted on 08/04/2009 12:49:03 PM PDT by BertWheeler (Dance and the world dances with you...)
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To: All; marron; BertWheeler

The nastiness and invective against so-called “birthers” was from the Urban Dictionary writers and columnist Eugene Robinson, not the blogger.


4 posted on 08/04/2009 12:53:31 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (If we're an Empire, why are Cuba, Iraq, Philippines, Japan & Germany independent?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Some people just hate birthers
____________________________________________

Some people just hate America...

But we’re not going to let that stop us...


5 posted on 08/04/2009 12:53:31 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

How do you find these offbeat articles and website blogs? You posted from one yesterday, written by a person claiming to live in East Tennessee in White’s Creek. Well, I live in East Tennessee and White’s Creek is just north and west of Nashville, which is definitely not in East Tennessee.


6 posted on 08/04/2009 12:55:44 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“A racist sore loser who can’t deal with having a black president so they make up absurd conspiracy theories about Barack Obama’s birth certificate. “

Replace “...so they make up absurd conspiracy theories about Barack Obama’s birth certificate” with “... don’t want socialized medicine”, “...think the stimulus didn’t work”, “...don’t like the czars”.

KEEP ON YOU LEFTIST MORONS!! There’s only so many times you can be called a racist for not agreeing with the President before it loses all meaning.

You will not silence me with a label of racist.

DISSENT IS NOT ONLY PATRIOTIC, IT IS ALSO NOT RACIST!


7 posted on 08/04/2009 1:05:31 PM PDT by autumnraine (You can't fix stupid, but you can vote it out!)
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To: MHGinTN
"How do you find these offbeat articles and website blogs?"

In military intelligence we have an old saying: "My job is so secret, even I don't know what I'm doing." But seriously, I use keywords on a news aggregator: It has "mainstream" news sites, itty bitty little newspapers, radio stations, PR sites and a variety of blogs. Lots of FR links, as well.

So the guy claimed to be from the wrong place? He sounded like a transplanted Yankee, anyhow. Maybe he just doesn't know $#*+ from Shinola...

8 posted on 08/04/2009 1:06:54 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (If we're an Empire, why are Cuba, Iraq, Philippines, Japan & Germany independent?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Trying to analyze the “birther” phenomenon would mean taking it seriously, and taking it seriously would be like arguing about the color of unicorns. About all that can be said is that a bunch of lost, confused and frightened people have decided to seek refuge in conspiratorial make-believe. I hope they’re harmless. And I hope they seek help.

I finally went to the original and saw that, indeed, the above is from Robinson. The FR formatting didn't make that clear.

Good article.

9 posted on 08/04/2009 1:13:04 PM PDT by marron
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
the whole birther thing has been kept alive because The White House will not provide a legitimate birth certificate.

A hard copy of the COLB Bambi posted online is good enough to prove American birth in any court or government office. I don't see why you consider it to be anything less than legitimate.

10 posted on 08/04/2009 1:14:28 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity

If it is legitimate enough to post it online, why would Obama fight to keep the lawsuits out instead of just handing over the so-called ‘hard copy’?


11 posted on 08/04/2009 1:19:04 PM PDT by autumnraine (You can't fix stupid, but you can vote it out!)
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To: curiosity

Because of the peculiarities of Hawaiian law.

And because of the sheer weirdness of the response. The weirder, the crazier, the wilder the invective, the more fraudulent documents muddying the water, along with fakes of fakes, the curiouser and curiouser I get.

I’ve never seen anything like this. I want to get to the bottom of it at this point.


12 posted on 08/04/2009 1:20:54 PM PDT by marron
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To: autumnraine
If it is legitimate enough to post it online, why would Obama fight to keep the lawsuits out instead of just handing over the so-called ‘hard copy’?

You are assuming that he could simply stop the lawsuits by handing over a hard copy to the court. Your premise is incorrect.

13 posted on 08/04/2009 1:21:02 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity

“You are assuming that he could simply stop the lawsuits by handing over a hard copy to the court. Your premise is incorrect. “

You can sue anyone for anything, but by entering a birth certificate into court as evidence, it would certainly quiet the issue down.


14 posted on 08/04/2009 1:29:00 PM PDT by autumnraine (You can't fix stupid, but you can vote it out!)
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To: autumnraine
You can sue anyone for anything, but by entering a birth certificate into court as evidence, it would certainly quiet the issue down.

You are assuming he would want to quiet the issue down. Again, your premise is incorrect.

15 posted on 08/04/2009 1:55:48 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: marron
Because of the peculiarities of Hawaiian law.

Such as...

16 posted on 08/04/2009 1:56:36 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
the whole birther thing has been kept alive because The White House will not provide a legitimate birth certificate.

No one hides good things about themselves do they? Especially politicians. Unless, of course, they are mentally ill.

17 posted on 08/04/2009 2:14:56 PM PDT by TigersEye (0bama: "I can see Mecca from the WH portico." --- Google - Cloward-Piven Strategy)
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To: curiosity; pissant; STARWISE; Red Steel; rxsid; Plutarch; MissTickly; bareford101; RobinMasters; ...
"A hard copy of the COLB Bambi posted online is good enough to prove American birth in any court or government office. I don't see why you consider it to be anything less than legitimate."

Here we go, again: 1. No, it's not. 2. If Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. is actually Mr. Obama's father (which we don't really know, one way or the other) he is not a natural born citizen, as his father was not a citizen. 3. Was Mr. Obama adopted by his stepfather in Indonesia? 4. Is the COLB shown on-line genuine? I've read numerous articles that say it's not. 5. Why the secrecy about everything involved with his history? School records, birth certificate, passport, state senate records, etc., etc.?? Somebody here help me explain to this FReeper why he's wrong.

18 posted on 08/04/2009 3:12:32 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (If we're an Empire, why are Cuba, Iraq, Philippines, Japan & Germany independent?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
1. No, it's not. 2. If Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. is actually Mr. Obama's father (which we don't really know, one way or the other) he is not a natural born citizen, as his father was not a citizen.

Interacting with you is like talking to a brick wall. It is simply not true that you need to have two citizen parents to be a natural born citizen. Birth in the US, under US jurisdiction, is enough. SCOTUS settled that definitely in US v. Kim Wong Ark, as I have pointed out to you and others multiple times.

Why are you so intent on ignoring it?

3. Was Mr. Obama adopted by his stepfather in Indonesia?

Not relevant to his eligibility to be president.

4. Is the COLB shown on-line genuine?

Again, not relevant, because it has already been confirmed by state officials that he was born in Hawaii.

5. Why the secrecy about everything involved with his history?

Because it encourages crackpot conspiracy theorists who make his opposition look bad.

I've read numerous articles that say it's not.

Oh, well, if you've read articles about it, then there must be something to it! /sarcasm.

School records, birth certificate, passport, state senate records, etc., etc.??

19 posted on 08/04/2009 3:21:01 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I am not opposed to founding out the truth. I have only added two thoughts of caution:

1) Watch out for traps (Orly).

2) Don’t let it distract you from real issues.


20 posted on 08/04/2009 3:21:01 PM PDT by Perdogg (Sarah Palin-Jim DeMint 2012 - Liz Cheney for Sec of State - Duncan Hunter SecDef)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; curiosity; pissant; STARWISE; Red Steel; rxsid; Plutarch; MissTickly; ...
Start here:

Link to US Passport Office

"*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar’s signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes. "

21 posted on 08/04/2009 3:25:26 PM PDT by FTJM
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To: curiosity; dontask

And if you believe anythi gof what you wrote then I have a seaside mansion on sale for you.

Without disrespect but horrified by your naivete, your thinking and simplicity is why we have Obamabo as President. The voters believed the lies he threw at them and continues to do so.

And there are trolls on FR, too, who lurk and try to disinform and scare to protect Obama.

A bit like you they refused to check out facts posted over and over on FreeRepublic and other sites like AntiMullah.


22 posted on 08/04/2009 3:29:49 PM PDT by FARS ( Be happy, Be well)
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To: curiosity
Are you deluded or obstinate (or both)? We've been over this again and again. Sure, the probability is that Mr. Obama will serve out his full four year term: The Democrat-led Congress and Supreme Court aren't looking for massive riots in the inner cities spreading out to the suburbs and rural areas. Plus he's a useful tool and lightening rod for the Democrats and gives them cover, as they can scream “RACIST!” at just about any opposition to his and their plans. Does that make it right? United States vs. Kim Wong Ark has absolutely NOTHING to do with this situation, as has been proved over and over again here on FR.
23 posted on 08/04/2009 3:33:24 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (If we're an Empire, why are Cuba, Iraq, Philippines, Japan & Germany independent?)
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To: FTJM
Do you even bother to read what you quote? The COLB meets all of those requirements:

a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal The seal on Obama's COLB is raised. Check.

registrar’s signature, On the back. Check.

and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Obama's was filed on August 8, 1961. His birth birth on August 4, 1961. There's less than a one year difference between those two dates. Check.

Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.

Yes, some short versions are not acceptable, but Obama's clearly meets the requirements.

24 posted on 08/04/2009 3:34:25 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity

You would be right ONLY if the document presented was NOT a valid one and so would not serve Obama at all.

Are you aware that sites all over the Internet have scrubbed (removed) copies of the document you mention because they worry about subpoenas to produce what they have in court and be open to forgery and other charges?


25 posted on 08/04/2009 3:35:44 PM PDT by FARS ( Be happy, Be well)
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To: curiosity

It is NOT a birth CERTIFICATE but a Certification of Live Birth. FAmous Chinese born Sun Yat Sen has one of those. And he WAS NOT born in Hawaii

See for yourself.

http://noiri.blogspot.com/2009/07/obama-guilty-on-at-least-one-count-of.html


26 posted on 08/04/2009 3:42:08 PM PDT by FARS ( Be happy, Be well)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Are you deluded or obstinate (or both)? We've been over this again and again.

Yes we have, and it's because you're the one who's obstinate.

Here's how our typical conversation goes:

You: To be a natural born citizen, you need two citizen parents.

Me: No you don't. US v. Kim Wong Ark clearly says you don't.

Then crickets.

Then the next day you repeat the line, "To be a natural born citizen, you need two citizen parents," as if no conversation had previously taken place.

Sometimes it goes a little differently. Instead of ignoring Kim Wong Ark, you say, without any basis, that it is not relevant to the current situation when it clearly is.

United States vs. Kim Wong Ark has absolutely NOTHING to do with this situation,

I see. So today you are choosing plan B. Okay, here we go.

The Kim Wong Ark case is directly relevant because it was a citizenship case. SCOTUS court ruled that Mr. Ark was a natural born citizen even though his parents were not. Please explain to me why that is different from the current situation.

as has been proved over and over again here on FR.

You can't prove something by simply repeating it over and over again.

27 posted on 08/04/2009 3:44:40 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: FARS
It is NOT a birth CERTIFICATE but a Certification of Live Birth.

A difference without distinction. The state department still accepts a certification as proof of US birth.

FAmous Chinese born Sun Yat Sen has one of those.

No he did not. He had fraudulantly obtained a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, an entirely different document.

28 posted on 08/04/2009 3:46:24 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: FARS
You would be right ONLY if the document presented was NOT a valid one and so would not serve Obama at all.

Not true. Presenting a valid COLB would not stop the lawsuits. Most of them aren't even related to birth certificate issues.

29 posted on 08/04/2009 3:48:29 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity
Of course I read what I quoted, did you?

""*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar’s signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes. ""

Where in the statement above does it exclude short form versions from the preceding definition?

30 posted on 08/04/2009 3:50:13 PM PDT by FTJM
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To: FARS
Are you aware that sites all over the Internet have scrubbed (removed) copies of the document you mention because they worry about subpoenas to produce what they have in court and be open to forgery and other charges?

The factcheck photos are still up:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

So is the scan on fightthesmears:

http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate?fc_c=1378032x2896433x111239450

I don't see any evidence that it was scrubbed.

31 posted on 08/04/2009 3:51:50 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: FTJM
Where in the statement above does it exclude short form versions from the preceding definition?

It doesn't. What's your point?

32 posted on 08/04/2009 3:53:17 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity; All

pot calling the kettle black. You are defintiely mixing oranges and apples with your reference.

These days there are anchor babies, no legal parents required. Back then different laws and ICE regulations applied. Check those out and then continue yor deflection of reality.

AND the matter of citizenship is a minor aspect showing only the probable degree or ineligibility. YOu have to be a NATURAL born kind and there is no way Obambi, with a Kenyan/British father, qualifies even if he were born on US soil.

Nothing about the COLB you defend qualifies as it is a poor forgery and has even been taken off the Obama site.

It used to be posted everywhere. See if you can find a copy anywhere on the INternet.


33 posted on 08/04/2009 3:56:48 PM PDT by FARS ( Be happy, Be well)
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To: curiosity
It doesn't. What's your point?

Think about it real hard.

34 posted on 08/04/2009 3:58:01 PM PDT by FTJM
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To: curiosity

Acceptance by the State Dept for a passport does not qualify the person to be President, does it? The same rules are not the controlling factors.

Sun Yat Sen’s was fraudulent but not Obambi’s? Really biased and selectively skewed eyesight. I won’t say mind set as this implies a sound mind behind the reasoning.

Bye


35 posted on 08/04/2009 4:04:09 PM PDT by FARS ( Be happy, Be well)
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To: FARS
You are defintiely mixing oranges and apples with your reference.

Okay, then please explain the difference. Mr. Kim: born in the USA, but allegedly not a natural born citizen because parents Chinese subjects. Court rules otherwise.

Mr. Obama: born in USA, but allegedly not a natural born citizen because Father British subject.

How's this different exactly?

These days there are anchor babies, no legal parents required. Back then different laws and ICE regulations applied. Check those out and then continue yor deflection of reality.

LOL. You are asking me to check what ICE regulations were in place at a time when ICE did not exist. And you're accusing me of being detached from reality?

YOu have to be a NATURAL born kind and there is no way Obambi, with a Kenyan/British father, qualifies even if he were born on US soil.

SCOTUS precedent says otherwise.

Nothing about the COLB you defend qualifies as it is a poor forgery and has even been taken off the Obama site.

It's still there in multiple places. See links above.

36 posted on 08/04/2009 4:04:43 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: FARS
Acceptance by the State Dept for a passport does not qualify the person to be President, does it?

It proves natural born citizenship to any court or government agency, which is all that's at issue here.

Sun Yat Sen’s was fraudulent but not Obambi’s?

Sun Yat Sen's Certificate of Hawaiian birth was filed in 1911, 50 years before Obama's, before Hawaii was even a state. Furthermore, Sun Yat Sen's was filed more than a year after his birth, whereas Obama's was filed within 4 dyas.

It's not even the same type of document. A Certificate of Hawaiian Birth is not the same thing as a Certification of Live Birth. Look it up.

As you say, apples and oranges.

37 posted on 08/04/2009 4:09:10 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: FTJM
Think about it real hard.

I did. I still don't see your point. Perhaps I'm stupid. I would really appreciate it if someone of your obviously superior intelligence would explain it to me.

38 posted on 08/04/2009 4:11:53 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity

If I refer to some British history in the days of Chaucer do you insist I use Chaucerian English? ICE did not but it is the current version of the Immigration organization and you are nitpicking and wasting our time.

Two known fervent pro-Obama sites out of dozens taht used to have it does not the matter prove. I believe they have removed it. When did you last check?

There is a Persian saying that describes what you are doing , it says putting both your feet into one shoe and (by inference refusing to budge because you cannot walk bu trefuse to admit it)


39 posted on 08/04/2009 4:12:56 PM PDT by FARS ( Be happy, Be well)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The online COLB may very well be “authentic” but that means very little.

It means that the State of Hawaii has an original birth document of some sort for Obama in its archives. The information on the online COLB was taken from that source document.

The question remains: What is the nature of that original document? Is it a long-form birth certificate? It would be, if Obama was born in a hospital in Hawaii because the attending physician would have been required by law to file one.

If there is one, why hasn't it been released?

On the other hand, there are other types of “original” birth certificates that the State of Hawaii issued in 1961. And some of those would not necessarily have required that Obama have been born in Hawaii. They are merely attestation of his birth by a parent or near relative, his grandparents for example.

Now, if the “original” were of this type, one can see the reason for not releasing it.

And as a matter of fact, the State of Hawaii has refused to comment on exactly what kind of “original” document they have consulted to issue the COLB, which is only an electronic form verifying that the state has some form of original birth document in its possession.

40 posted on 08/04/2009 4:13:31 PM PDT by mojito
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To: curiosity

BIG BOOBOO. It does not prove NATURAL born status, just citizenfhip


41 posted on 08/04/2009 4:14:38 PM PDT by FARS ( Be happy, Be well)
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To: curiosity
Factcheck took a grand total of 6 minutes and 44 seconds to examine and photograph 0bama's COLB. Does that sound like enough time to prove whether or not a document is true and accurate?

Inconsistencies undermine FactCheck report on Obama "birth certificate

RE: UNITED STATES v. WONG KIM ARK

42 posted on 08/04/2009 4:15:14 PM PDT by smokingfrog (No man's life, liberty or property is safe while the legislature is in session. I AM JIM THOMPSON)
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To: FARS
ICE did not but it is the current version of the Immigration organization and you are nitpicking and wasting our time.

Okay, so what's your point about the regulations of the "immigration organization" at the time of the Kim Wong Ark case?

Two known fervent pro-Obama sites out of dozens taht used to have it does not the matter prove. I believe they have removed it. When did you last check?

Just now. Factcheck and Fightthesmears still have it up.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate?fc_c=1378032x2896433x111239450

Are those the organizations you are talking about?

There is a Persian saying that describes what you are doing , it says putting both your feet into one shoe and (by inference refusing to budge because you cannot walk bu trefuse to admit it)

Here's a straightforward American way of saying what you're doing: you refuse to see reality because you are so pathologically attached to your fantasy.

43 posted on 08/04/2009 4:18:29 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: FARS
BIG BOOBOO. It does not prove NATURAL born status, just citizenfhip

It proves birth in the USA, which according to SCOTUS precedent (cf. US v. Kim Wong Ark) is sufficient for natural born citizenship.

44 posted on 08/04/2009 4:20:10 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: smokingfrog
Factcheck took a grand total of 6 minutes and 44 seconds to examine and photograph 0bama's COLB. Does that sound like enough time to prove whether or not a document is true and accurate?

Let's see. To check it's accuracy, I'd examine the seal and the contents. Actually, 6 minutes seems like a long time.

As to your link about US v. Kim Wong Ark, it's garbage.

45 posted on 08/04/2009 4:24:03 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: mojito
On the other hand, there are other types of “original” birth certificates that the State of Hawaii issued in 1961. And some of those would not necessarily have required that Obama have been born in Hawaii.

That is simpliy not true.

46 posted on 08/04/2009 4:26:24 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity

Please stop lying. You know the original birth record could have been generated by a false affidavit filed by Grandma Madelyn.


47 posted on 08/04/2009 4:37:01 PM PDT by Plummz (pro-constitution, anti-corruption)
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To: curiosity
“Here is a summary of Hawaii’s “state policies and procedures” in 1961.

In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were four different ways to get an “original birth certificate” on record. They varied greatly in their reliability as evidence. For convenience, I’ll call them BC1, BC2, BC3, and BC4.

BC1. If the birth was attended by a physician or mid wife, the attending medical professional was required to certify to the Department of Health the facts of the birth date, location, parents’ identities and other information. (See Section 57-8 & 9 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).

BC2. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then all that was required was that one of the parents send in a birth certificate to be filed. The birth certificate could be filed by mail. There appears to have been no requirement for the parent to actually physically appear before “the local registrar of the district.” It would have been very easy for a relative to forge an absent parent’s signature to a form and mail it in. In addition, if a claim was made that “neither parent of the newborn child whose birth is unattended as above provided is able to prepare a birth certificate, the local registrar shall secure the necessary information from any person having knowledge of the birth and prepare and file the certificate.” (Section 57-8&9) I asked the Dept of Health what they currently ask for (in 2008) to back up a parent’s claim that a child was born in Hawaii. I was told that all they required was a proof of residence in Hawaii (e.g. a driver’s license [We know from interviews with her friends on Mercer Island in Washington State that Ann Dunham had acquired a driver’s license by the summer of 1961 at the age of 17] or telephone bill) and pre-natal (statement or report that a woman was pregnant) and post-natal (statement or report that a new-born baby has been examined) certification by a physician. On further enquiry, the employee that I spoke to informed me that the pre-natal and post-natal certifications had probably not been in force in the ‘60s. Even if they had been, there is and was no requirement for a physician or midwife to witness, state or report that the baby was born in Hawaii.

BC3. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then, up to the first birthday of the child, a “Delayed Certificate” could be filed, which required that “a summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for delayed filing or the alteration [of a file] shall be endorsed on the certificates”, which “evidence shall be kept in a special permanent file.” The statute provided that “the probative value of a ‘delayed’ or ‘altered’ certificate shall be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence.” (See Section 57- 9, 18, 19 & 20 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).”

[In other words, this form of vault birth certificate, the Delayed Certificate, required no more than a statement before a government bureaucrat by one of the parents or (the law does not seem to me clear on this) one of Barack Obama’s grandparents. If the latter is true, Ann Dunham did not have to be present for this statement or even in the country.]

BC4. If a child is born in Hawaii, for whom no physician or mid wife filed a certificate of live birth, and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed before the first birthday, then a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth could be issued upon testimony of an adult (including the subject person [i.e. the birth child as an adult]) if the Office of the Lieutenant Governor was satisfied that a person was born in Hawaii, provided that the person had attained the age of one year. (See Section 57-40 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961.) In 1955 the “secretary of the Territory” was in charge of this procedure. In 1960 it was transferred to the Office of the Lieutenant Governor (“the lieutenant governor, or his secretary, or such other person as he may designate or appoint from his office” §338-41 [in 1961]).”

http://www.westernjournalism.com/?page_id=2697

Other than an official long form birth certificate (BC1) all that would have been required is that an adult attest that Obama was born in Hawaii. No questions asked.

I just can't see where there might be the potential for abuse or fraud inherent in this system, can you?

48 posted on 08/04/2009 5:04:29 PM PDT by mojito
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To: curiosity
Perhaps I'm stupid

Good, we’re starting to agree.

I responded to this comment:

"A hard copy of the COLB Bambi posted online is good enough to prove American birth in any court or government office. I don't see why you consider it to be anything less than legitimate."

1. Obama’s copy wasn’t a hard copy but a scanned pic posted online. Per WND, the State of Hawaii hasn’t confirmed that they issued hard copy COLB represented in the online image.

2. You stated that Obama’s COLB “meets the requirements” for passport purposes (a government office) because it presumably agrees with the definition provided in the US Passport link even though it clearly states that some short form versions are not acceptable. The linked comments do not exclude any or all short forms from its definition of certified birth certificates nor does it specify which short forms are unacceptable or why. You must have amazing psychic abilities to be able to unilaterally rule Obama’s short form from that universe. Short forms are not always “good enough to prove American birth in any court or government office”, forgetting the fact a US passport DOES NOT PROVE AMERICAN BIRTH. IT PROVES AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP.

3. The US Passport Office acknowledges the severity and scope of birth certificate fraud used to obtain US Passports. A short form computer generated abstract based on a fraudulent long form birth certificate (source document) would NOT be “good enough to prove American birth in any court” unless it’s a kangaroo court.

Next topic: DHHL requirements.

49 posted on 08/04/2009 5:37:52 PM PDT by FTJM
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“FREE THE LONG FORM!”


50 posted on 08/04/2009 5:44:22 PM PDT by Dryman (Now, Back to Lurking)
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