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The Real Srebrenica Massacre
4International ^ | January 11, 2010 | John Peter Maher, Ph.D.

Posted on 01/28/2010 7:37:52 PM PST by Ravnagora

WARNING: THIS BLOG CONTAINS EXTREMELY GRAPHIC ATROCITY PHOTOS.

*****

When did commentators first start using the formulation, the catch phrase, “The Srebrenica Massacre [of x-thousands of Muslim men and boys]”?

When did the “Srebrenica Massacre” story break?

No reports from 10 July 1995 and the immediately ensuing days and weeks ever refer to “the massacre of 8000 (or 7000 etc) Muslim men and boys”.

FROM Iran, no mention of a massacre having taken place:

“Iranian foreign minister [Velayati], in a message to the UN secretary-general, has asked for immediate action to prevent a massacre of the defenceless people of Srebrenica by the Serb rebels. SOURCE: Vision of the Islamic Republic of Iran Network 1, Tehran, in Persian 0930 gmt 11 Jul 95; Source: Voice of the Islamic Republic of Iran Network 1, Tehran, in Persian 0930 gmt 11 Jul 95; SECTION: Part 4 Middle East; THE MIDDLE EAST; IRAN; ME/2353/MED. Message to UN secretary-general. Text of report by Iranian TV on 11th July.

From the front, no mention of a massacre having taken place:

Reports from the front in mid-July 1995, e.g. Chris Hedges in the New York Times of 18 July 1995, reported that thousands of armed Muslim fighters “slipped” through Serb lines under fire and arriving safe in Tuzla, held by Muslim forces (and a US garrison).

The lag time between as yet unbaptized “Srebrenica Massacre” on 10-11 July 1995 and the first press reports is over a month. David Rohde, who spearheaded the story that became known as “the Srebrenica Massacre”, did not himself use any such phrase or make such a claim. In his story, in the Guardian of 19 August 19 1995 we find “…I saw what appeared to be a decomposing human leg protruding from freshly turned dirt…” He repeated Albright’s fabrication about a massacre in a soccer stadium in a nearby town, [where] human faeces, blood, and other evidence indicated large numbers of people were confined, and perhaps shot.” Also: “United Nations official estimate that 4,000 to 6,000 Muslim men are still missing in the wake of the Srebrenica and Zepa assaults.”

Zbigniew Brzezinski:

The news would have still been hot when Zbigniew Brzezinski wrote an Op-Ed piece in “The New Republic” of 7 August 1995, under the headline: AFTER SREBRENICA. Zbig Brzezinski says only that something awful “might” happen.

Nowhere does Brzezinski mention a “Srebrenica massacre”. That catch phrase does not appear until weeks after the alleged event. It will not be found in the press until the American-sponsored Croatian “Storm” (Oluja) on Serb Krajina in August-September 1995.

(In)Consistency: Madeleine Korbel Albright, whose “Albright Group” now has the franchise for the cell phone business in Kosovo, brought the earliest allegation of a Serb massacre of Muslims on August 11, 1995. The chief United States delegate to the United Nations told a closed session of the Security Council that 2,000 to 2,700 missing Bosnians from the Srebrenica enclave might have been shot by the Bosnian Serbs.– She did not use the formulation “Srebrenica massacre.”

So, the numbers in Albright’s document and subsequent tellings and re-tellings are not consistent. What this implies we know from the Book of Daniel, chapter 13, where Susanna is denounced by corrupt Elders. Since their testimonies were inconsistent, as Daniel showed by “debriefing” the corrupt judges separately, the judges were condemned for bearing false witness.

LEXIS-NEXIS searches now permit us to track down press reports on whatever story. Readers can see for themselves what results turn up in searches dated between 10 July 1995 and the beginning of October 1995, using parameters such as

(Srebrenica AND massacre) (Srebrenica AND missing) Srebrenica AND 7000 OR 8000) (7000-8000 men and boys) …

(Koranically, once boys attain the age of fifteen, they are “warriors” for Islam.) Remember boy bombers in Israel.

Did the Srebrenica Massacre” happen? Draw your own conclusions.

Remember the the “Jenin Massacre” in the world press’ satanization of Israel

In late 2009 and early 2010 Oliver Kamm in The Times (London) indulges in every logical fallacy in the book. What he repeats he pretends is true. Kamm never wrote a line about a massacre at Srebrenica until years after the purported event.

J. P. Maher

*****


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Politics
KEYWORDS: bosnia; dhimmwit; historicalrevision; serbs; srebrenica

1 posted on 01/28/2010 7:37:52 PM PST by Ravnagora
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To: Ravnagora

Thought so, that seems like some time ago though Ravnagora, I can recall the story being that there was some sort of “safe haven” city that the Serbs (no mention was made of either irregulars or the Yugo National Army) attacked and there was supposed to have been a massacre.

Do you happen to know if the Balkans pinglist is still active?

I thought Kronos used to have one?


2 posted on 01/28/2010 7:43:06 PM PST by padre35 (You shall not ignore the laws of God, the Market, the Jungle, and Reciprocity Rm10.10)
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To: Ravnagora

Thought so, that seems like some time ago though Ravnagora, I can recall the story being that there was some sort of “safe haven” city that the Serbs (no mention was made of either irregulars or the Yugo National Army) attacked and there was supposed to have been a massacre.

Do you happen to know if the Balkans pinglist is still active?

I thought Kronos used to have one?


3 posted on 01/28/2010 7:43:23 PM PST by padre35 (You shall not ignore the laws of God, the Market, the Jungle, and Reciprocity Rm10.10)
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To: joan; Smartass; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; vooch; ...

4 posted on 01/28/2010 7:43:34 PM PST by Ravnagora
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To: padre35

Hi padre35, yes the Balkan Ping List is still active. I just posted it a few seconds ago.

Srebrenica was one of the “safe havens” in Bosnia. The “Myth” surrounding the “Massacre” has been successfully repudiated by Professor Peter Maher over the course of many years now, using facts, logic, and rationality. The “Myth” continues to be perpetrated, as we speak by those who absolutely REFUSE to accept the fact that this “massacre” allegedly perpetrated by the Serbs against the Bosnian Muslims was a manufactured story.

Maher is not a journalist. However, he practices better journalistic ethics than 90 percent of them out there today.

*****


5 posted on 01/28/2010 7:50:22 PM PST by Ravnagora
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To: Ravnagora

May Clinton burn in Hell.....and our country ask forgiveness.........for this travesty.


6 posted on 01/28/2010 7:53:30 PM PST by RightOnline
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To: Ravnagora
Kind of hard to repudiate something that the perps themselves acknowledge.

Well, hard if you're sane, anyway.

7 posted on 01/28/2010 7:56:50 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

I’m no expert in this AT ALL, just a passerby, but what “perps” acknowledge it? Were they spared prosecution for acknowledging it? Was that a cost of doing business? Again, I have no idea if it took place, or if it’s outrageous to suggest it didn’t.


8 posted on 01/28/2010 8:12:24 PM PST by dangus (Nah, I'm not really Jim Thompson, but I play him on FR.)
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To: dangus
Those who perpetrated the slaughter acknowledge they did it.
The Bosnian Serb Government acknowledges it happened.
The Serbian Government acknowledges it happened.

A small band of David Irving wannabes are still trying to rally the ignorant and the stupid to their banner of denial, however.

9 posted on 01/28/2010 8:25:34 PM PST by Hoplite
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: Ravnagora

So apparently Albright;s company is running the cell phone business in Kosovo?

I’d heard there was also a oil pipeline deal in the works that had been agreed to?

South Stream 2?


11 posted on 01/28/2010 8:33:17 PM PST by padre35 (You shall not ignore the laws of God, the Market, the Jungle, and Reciprocity Rm10.10)
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To: Hoplite
Those who perpetrated the slaughter acknowledge they did it. The Bosnian Serb Government acknowledges it happened. The Serbian Government acknowledges it happened.

You should be more specific and mention some names associated with those government entities you are alluding to, Hoplite.

12 posted on 01/28/2010 8:45:42 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: getoffmylawn; Hoplite

I don’t know by what logic the slaughter of 2 million Armenians or 30 million Ukranians isn’t a genocide, but the killing of 8000 men, and forced relocation of 25,000 women and children is. Is forced relocation genocide? Does that mean the Pakistani-Indian partition is genocide? How about Eisenhower’s “Operation Wetback?” It appears that the term was first applied to the situation by a Bosnian-Serb before the fact, using the term to refer to plans for a forced relocation.

I did read on Wikipedia that in 2003, the Bosnian-Serbian Republic denied the genocide; and the defendants convicted of genocide had pled innocent. If Wikipedia is unreliable on this, at least it makes the point that there is at least significant disagreement. A later 2005 “apology” seems entirely economically motivated.

It seems one must get into conspiracy theories to deny that 6-8,000 Muslims in Srebrenica were killed and buried in mass graves. I suppose any ground for debate as to the scale of the atrocity lies in questioning what portion of these were killed in cold blood, and what portion were killed in battle. It is legitimate in war to kill retreating combatants; the Islamo-fascist insistence on attacking in civilian clothing and from highly populated areas makes complaints about the age range of the dead a little iffy. But again, it seems the larger ground for debate is whether killing the male inhabitants of one city constitutes “genocide.”

And again, I emphasize that I am highly “educable” as to any refutations of any position I’ve taken, and I’m deliberately being skeptical of “majority report “ claims not because I consider any skepticism to be reasonable, but only because of my own acknowledged ignorance and a willingness to hear people out.


13 posted on 01/28/2010 8:49:06 PM PST by dangus (Nah, I'm not really Jim Thompson, but I play him on FR.)
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To: dangus
Armenians? Slaughtered?

When did that happen?

I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm just saying that there are two sides to any story, and reasonable men can disagree. I'm open to being informed upon the subject. Same thing with the Ukrainians. And Cambodians. And Jews. And just about any other historical event, genocide related or not, you can choose to think of.

<yawn>

14 posted on 01/28/2010 9:01:29 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: getoffmylawn; Hoplite

What seems ridiculous about the article is the notion that because the news media didn’t immediately report the incident it must not have taken place... and that is at the core of the article. Reading the timeline, the obvious reason it wasn’t reported is because, well, the mainstream media wasn’t exactly embedded with the Serbian or Muslim armies. That scattered reports of atrocities and fighting didn’t get characterized immediately as a genocide or massacre is hardly surprising.


15 posted on 01/28/2010 9:09:13 PM PST by dangus (Nah, I'm not really Jim Thompson, but I play him on FR.)
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To: Hoplite

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide (2 million dead in Turkey)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor (8 million dead in a Ukranian “famine,” despite a bumper crop.)


16 posted on 01/28/2010 9:15:23 PM PST by dangus (Nah, I'm not really Jim Thompson, but I play him on FR.)
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To: dangus
If only Wikipedia had a page devoted to what transpired in Srebrenica.

Alas.

I guess this will have to do.

Enjoy.

17 posted on 01/28/2010 9:33:16 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
I guess this will have to do.

And, this is your primary source for your arguement:

Hans Blom, born in Leiden, Netherlands, in 1943. Ph.D. from Leiden University. Professor of Dutch History after the Middle Ages at the University of Amsterdam.

Good source, Hoplite,...keep going.

18 posted on 01/28/2010 11:38:29 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: Hoplite

Actually, they do. And it’s quite extensive.


19 posted on 01/29/2010 5:44:44 AM PST by dangus (Nah, I'm not really Jim Thompson, but I play him on FR.)
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: Ravnagora

The lies that some people believe...always ready to swallow anything that destruction of Christians in the Balkans at the hands of the neo nazi muslims and their vampire friends - in the State Dept. and other kafkaesque holes.


21 posted on 01/29/2010 8:48:50 AM PST by eleni121 (For Jesus did not give us a timid spirit , but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline)
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To: Hoplite

The Serbs acknowledge the defeated the Jihadists in a running gun battle.

Nice try, rooster.


22 posted on 01/29/2010 4:07:23 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: Hoplite
I see you still link to Soros-funded propaganda sites for 'facts,' eh dupat?
23 posted on 01/29/2010 4:09:21 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: dangus
The Srebrenica Hoax was concocted as a smoke screen to cover up Operation Storm. At the same time Operation Storm was taking place, the main stream media was peppering us with the false genocide stories attached to the liberation of Srebrenica.

A few weeks later a small blip about Operation Storm appeared on page 14 of the New York times. Operation Storm could not be allowed to be the lead story out of the Balkans because the US government was connected to Operation Storm, and Operation Storm could arguably be a better example of "genocide" than anything that happened in Srebrenica.

24 posted on 01/30/2010 12:01:58 PM PST by getoffmylawn (aka Cool Breeze)
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To: getoffmylawn

There certainly were war crimes and ethnic cleansing in Croatia, but the Serbs claim 1,200 civilian casualties. The Croats claim there were only 120. And from what I read, the discrepancy is more in characterizing what’s a civilian, not how many casualties. That’s compared to 8,000 dead in Srebrenica.

If you’re arguing people didn’t know about Operation Storm, you’re just kidding yourself.


25 posted on 01/30/2010 6:20:19 PM PST by dangus (Nah, I'm not really Jim Thompson, but I play him on FR.)
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To: dangus
I never said anything about people not knowing about Operation Storm, but the ethnic cleansing of 200,000 Serbs from their ancestral homes in Croatia was just a blip on page 14 of the New York Times. Meanwhile the entire mainstream media was awash with the fake Srebrenica massacre stories.

Also, it wasn't 8000 summary executions in Srebrenica at the time. That's another one of those magic growing numbers of dead the Bosnian Muslim's PR company was so adept at changing as the mood struck them.

26 posted on 01/30/2010 7:29:41 PM PST by getoffmylawn (aka Cool Breeze)
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To: getoffmylawn

Yeah... the number grew as the mass graves were discovered.


27 posted on 01/31/2010 4:58:52 AM PST by dangus (Nah, I'm not really Jim Thompson, but I play him on FR.)
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To: dangus

Which mass graves?

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~bip/docs/kosovo_polje/srebrenica_hoax_b.html


28 posted on 01/31/2010 5:44:59 PM PST by getoffmylawn (aka Cool Breeze)
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To: getoffmylawn

1998? It’s 2010 and you post an article from 1998 which says that most of the bodies have *yet* to be discovered?

Hey, I admitted already that my main source is Wikipedia, so I’m open to the notion that there may be alternate versions of the story. But when you post a 1998 article to dispute the findings of mass graves discovered as late as 2006... that’s just not very impressive.


29 posted on 01/31/2010 9:23:20 PM PST by dangus (Nah, I'm not really Jim Thompson, but I play him on FR.)
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To: Hoplite
I'm just saying that there are two sides to any story, and reasonable men can disagree.

Really?...I'm wondering.

30 posted on 01/31/2010 10:38:55 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: dangus

Again... Which mass graves?


31 posted on 02/01/2010 11:54:59 AM PST by getoffmylawn (aka Cool Breeze)
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To: dangus

http://www.srebrenica-report.com/conclusions.htm


32 posted on 02/01/2010 11:59:07 AM PST by getoffmylawn (aka Cool Breeze)
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To: dangus
Here's another interesting article...

http://srpska-mreza.com/Bosnia/Srebrenica/Branco.html

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, or prove you wrong. I'm also very interested in learning about what REALLY happened at Srebrenica.

As far as I can tell so far, there appears to have been some summary executions. I'm guessing about 600 Bosnian Muslim men were taken out this way. The rest of the Muslim men killed appear to have been killed as they retreated with the Bosnian Muslim army and tried to fight their way to Tuzla. Most of 'em didn't make it. C'est la guerre.

33 posted on 02/01/2010 8:09:09 PM PST by getoffmylawn (aka Cool Breeze)
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To: getoffmylawn
THE EVENTS IN AND AROUND SREBRENICA BETWEEN 10th AND 19th JULY 1995

Your guesses are irrelevant. There were more than 1,000 from Potocari (not captured from the column trying to escape) who were executed. C'est la vie.

As far as your ignorance regarding mass graves, the Commission which released the linked report released the location of 32 as of then undiscovered Srebrenica related mass graves, which have been exhumed starting in 2004. Exhumations of Srebrenica related mass graves continue through the present, having reached a total of 80 thus far.

But don't you let any such words as "incontrovertible" or "overwhelming" get in your way when trying to argue against the evidence surrounding Srebrenica. It's been a form of IQ test for some time, which some, like you, are destined to perpetually fail.

34 posted on 02/01/2010 10:10:58 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

Go away. I don’t read your crap. You have proven you have zero integrity years ago. Your posts are worthless.


35 posted on 02/02/2010 9:16:41 AM PST by getoffmylawn (aka Cool Breeze)
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To: getoffmylawn
Truth will come to light;
murder cannot be hid long;
a man's son may,
but in the end truth will out.

Your impotent anger is wasted on me, getoffmylawn. The truth of Srebrenica is out, and it is beyond the limited means of one such as yourself to challenge, much less change.

36 posted on 02/02/2010 6:35:16 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
Your impotent anger is wasted on me,...

Really?....

Well, why don't we just get down to brass tacks here, Hoplite.

That is, in the final analysis, Hoplite, the problem with you (and that others have with you in this forum) is that it is not so much whether you are "right or wrong" on any given subject matter.

Rather, it's your Attitude....That's Your Problem.

Do you get it?

37 posted on 02/05/2010 1:29:19 AM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: joan; Smartass; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; vooch; ...
Professor Peter Maher is a welcome and necessary antidote to the mythology of Srebrenica.

Another antidote is an important book that came out in 2009 and should be read by anyone who cares about Balkan issues and beyond.

First Do No Harm: Humanitarian Intervention and the Destruction of Yugoslavia

By David N. Gibbs

Vanderbilt University Press, Nashville, TN 2009

Available at Amazon and Barnes and Noble

*****

This book, First Do No Harm: Humanitarian Intervention and the Destruction of Yugoslavia, given to me by a friend, is one of the best, if not the best, written on the subject of the mess that was created in the former Yugoslavia in the 1990s into the present. Personally, I believe that U.S. military intervention is, and has been, appropriate in certain circumstances and is justified. Military intervention in the former Yugoslavia, however, was a huge "mistake" for a number of reasons, the primary one being that it was done under the false pretenses of "humanitarianism" at the expense of the Serbs. The West, unfortunately, took the side of the bad guys against the good guys. It will be a while before all the "Truths" come out about what really happened in the former Yugoslavia from 1989 through 2009 and beyond, but this important book by David Gibbs is an essential part of that process.

Although Gibbs repeats and holds fast to some of the disinformation and myths regarding alleged Serbian "crimes" in the former Yugoslavia, to his great credit he is far better than most in being willing and able to cut through all the lies that have pervaded the analysis of what went on in the Balkans in the last two decades. I highly recommend this book, "First Do No Harm: Humanitarian Intervention and the Destruction of Yugoslavia" by David N. Gibbs. Even those who believe they know all there is to know about the issue of the former Yugoslavia will be shocked at the extent of the external subterfuge that went on in ripping that country apart and making the Serbs the scapegoats for the crimes. This external "intervention" will have repercussions for the free world, especially the Christian world, far into the future.

Aleksandra Rebic

February 2010

Below is an excerpt from one of the chapters specifically pertaining to the subject matter discussed in this thread.

THE SREBRENICA MASSACRE AND ITS AFTERMATH

From "First Do No Harm" by David N. Gibbs

Pages 160-161

"The origin of the Srebrenica massacre lay in a series of Muslim attacks that began in the spring of 1995. These attacks were launched from UN-protected safe areas, including the one in Srebrenica. According to the Dutch investigation of the massacre:"

"'The UN headquarters in Zagreb had...concluded that the Bosnian Muslims continually misused the safe areas to maintain their armed forces, which in some cases it looked as if they intended to provoke shelling by the Bosnian Serbs.'"

"Such actions invited Serb reprisals, and this dynamic contributed to the fall of the safe area. Beginning on July 6, 1995 Serb forces assaulted Srebrenica and quickly overran it, despite the (nominal) UN protection."

"The Bosnian government made no serious effort to defend the town and appeared unconcerned that it might be captured. EU negotiator Carl Bildt notes that Bosnian military forces assigned to protect Srebrenica were 'not putting up any resistance. Later it was revealed that they had been ordered by the Sarajevo commanders not to defend Srebrenica.' And Bosnia's foreign minister, Muhamed Sacirbey, told Bildt that Srebrenica 'had always been a problem for his government. They knew that a peace settlement would mean the loss of the enclave. So from this point of view, what had happened [the Serb capture of the town] made things easier' (emphases added by Gibbs). Bildt also noted that during his conversation with Sacirbey, 'I was more upset about what had happened than he [Sacirbey] seemed to be. His calm reactions and controlled arguments still seem to me to be a mysterious piece of the Srebrenica puzzle.'"

"And military correspondent Ripley provides further evidence that the Bosnian government allowed Serb armies to seize the town:"

"'British, Dutch, and other UNPROFOR personnel and many veterans of the Sarajevo press corps, including [Martin] Bell of the BBC, and Nick Gowing of the Channel Four television network all came to the conclusion that the Bosnian government decided to let Srebrenica fall to increase the pressure on the international community to intervene against the Serbs....A month before [the Serb attack], Sarajevo had ordered [Brigadier Oric, the local commander]...to leave for no apparent reason. He was then prevented from returning. As the situation worsened, the Sarajevo leadership made no effort to launch diversionary attacks...Dutch peacekeepers near Tuzla told Gowing that they saw Bosnian troops escaping from Srebrenica...carrying brand new anti-tank weapons, still in their plastic wrappings...[British UN peacekeeper Lieutenant Col. Jim] Baxter said 'they [the Bosnian government] knew what was happening in Srebrenica. I am certain they decided it was worth the sacrifice.'" [emphasis added by Gibbs]

"The foregoing information raises the possibility that the Izetbegovic government actually welcomed the conquest of Srebrenica and took specific measures to increase the likelihood that conquest would occur; and that in doing this, the government was acting on the basis of a larger strategy, which aimed at augmenting international sympathy for the Bosnian cause and thus drawing in NATO military intervention to be directed against the Serbs."

*****

To see reviews of "First Do No Harm" on Amazon.com, please click below:

Reviews of "First Do No Harm" by David Gibbs on Amazon

*****

38 posted on 02/13/2010 5:57:23 PM PST by Ravnagora
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To: getoffmylawn; Hoplite

One of you will enjoy hearing that the truth continues to be revealed.


39 posted on 02/14/2010 4:04:25 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: Ravnagora; FormerLib
You appear to have avoided citing the most relevant passage, Ravnagora:

The Srebrenica massacre was the worst crime in Europe since the 1940s, and several international court filings have defined it as a case of genocide. As to the issue of responsibility, the massacre was directed by Gen. Ratko Mladic, the overall commander of the Serb armies in Bosnia, and Gen. Radislav Krstic, another Serb officer. ibid p160.

40 posted on 02/14/2010 5:01:26 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
ibid p160.

You're missing the bigger picture.

41 posted on 02/14/2010 5:51:04 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic

Its not all he’s missing.


42 posted on 02/17/2010 7:52:47 AM PST by montyspython ("I don't believe in 'no win' scenarios." - James T. Kirk)
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