Lt. Col. Lakin’s Article 32 Hearing is not legit w/o an eligible CNC

The Post & Email ^ | Jun. 5, 2010 | Catherine Whitfield

[urtax$@work]

Without a legitimate Commander-in-Chief, an Article 32 hearing cannot take place.

Lt. Col. Terrence Lakin has refused to follow orders until Barack Hussein Obama proves that he is constitutionally eligible to serve as Commander-in-Chief. If Obama’s eligibility has not been established before the Article 32 hearing scheduled for Lakin on June 11, 2010, then it is illegitimate.

Even the officer delivering the charges to Lt. Col. Lakin did not have the authority to do so if Obama is not constitutionally qualified.

A retired Navy Commander subject to recall filed a .......

[centurion316]

So Uncle Chip, personal attacks is all you’ve got left. Nothing else left in your quiver? Your argument is more than weak, its a non starter. You don’t like the way the political system works, so you demand that it be changed to accommodate you. Do you think that you can find another LTC Lakin out there who is willing to skewer himself in order to satisfy your views on the way things ought to be?

Don’t like Obama? Do something to ensure that he can’t get on the ballot in your state in 2012. You’ll find people who will help you do that, though damned few will be politicians of either stripe.

Now, please continue with your idiotic personal attacks, they do put you in such a favorable light.

[jamese777]

Driscoll’s point is that the movement order for Lieutenant Colonel Lakin is a legal order regardless of Obama’s eligibility.
That has been the way the US Military has always operated under “lawfulness of orders” and “de facto officer.” The exception is if an order is to commit an unlawful act.
Deploying to Afghanistan is not an unlawful act and I’m willing to bet that the name Barack Hussein Obama does not appear on the movement order.
Lakin is charged with a violation of 887.87 under the Uniform Code of Military Justice: Missing Movement
“Any person subject to this chapter who through neglect or design misses the movement of a ship, aircraft, or unit with which he is required in the course of duty to move shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

[centurion316]

I believe that you may have wandered into the wrong thread, as you have done with other threads concerning LTC Lakin. Here you are arguing points of law concerning a legal matter when all around you only want to make emotional pleas to the nobleness of his cause.

The Article 32 Officer will find probable cause to proceed and will so recommend to the Convening Authority.

He will be tried by Court Martial and found guilty.

He will be transported to the U.S. Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth. He probably won’t serve much time, but his life and career will be ruined.

No one will care that he sacrificed himself for a cause.

I would like to have been able to advise him to choose a different path.

Thanks for all of your posts, very educational.

[Red Steel]

Driscoll’s point is that the movement order for Lieutenant Colonel Lakin is a legal order regardless of Obama’s eligibility. That has been the way the US Military has always operated under “lawfulness of orders” and “de facto officer.” The exception is if an order is to commit an unlawful act.

And we know that LTC Lakin contends orders from the putative president may NOT be lawful. We know the government doesn't want to go there and wants to restrict the defense to Lakin's detriment.

And 'the de facto officer' argument does not cover Obama in this case as I so posted to you before. Again here it is:

- - - - - -

The “de facto officer doctrine” has been on the books since 1886.

... Whenever I look at the details your story falls apart.

In the STATE_V_OREN.92-113; 160 Vt. 245; 627 A.2d 337,

it states:

"Whether the officer with defective title appeared to be an intruder or usurper depends on whether other government officials and the public reasonably believed that the officer was entitled to exercise the powers of her office during the period of defective title. Id. at 261. Under the de facto officer doctrine, it is irrelevant whether defendant understood the deputy sheriff was a law enforcement officer on the occasion in question."

This passage from the Vermont Supreme Court's opinion make two statements. One is that the "public reasonably believe" the officer is entitled to office. With Obama, there are millions of American who have more than reasonable suspicions that Obama has usurped the presidential office.

And number two.

At the time of his unlawful act, the defendant believed that the officer was entitled to his office. It is also stated that the defense discovered after the fact that the deputy sheriff usurped the office. The difference here is that LTC Lakin reasonably believes that Obama was and is an Usurper. Lakin has questioned the authorities and his chain of command without satisfaction for about a year and a half, which he has documented.

The Vermont opinion further states,

"To satisfy the doctrine, the officer must be "in the unobstructed possession of the office and discharging its duties in full view of the public, in such manner and under such circumstances as not to present the appearance of being an intruder or usurper." Waite v. Santa Cruz, 184 U.S. 302, 323 (1902). "

We have seen Obama acting more than just as an intruder or usurper where RXSID gave you a presentation further up in the [another] thread. We have statements from Michelle Obama, and Kenyan government officials that state unequivocally that Obama is a Kenyan and was born in Kenya:

I hope you enjoy making up your own interpretations of the law of the land as a hobby but your hobby bears no resemblance to real law.

Oh, I'm good at analyzing the law, which is better than most if not all the Obot lawyers that I converse with online, and I'm being very modest.

- - - - -

As we see again, Driscoll was not complete in his reporting to the Article 32 hearing.

[Sola Veritas]

“Driscoll is not being entirely complete in his explanation. Deployment orders originate from the president of the United States to war zones. The chain-of-command echoes that same order all the way down to the privates in the units that receives those orders. As it is clearly illustrated in this article below”

The problem here is that both sides are correct. Following the strict procedures of military law...the JAG, LTC Driscoll, is technically/legally correct. In his narrow little world of lawbooks and military law he is spot on.

However, most of the rest of us agree with you Red Steel, that ALL military authority - especially deployment to combat, derives it’s source/authority in the POTUS. IF the POTUS is an illegitimate (not constitutionally qualified) one then the entire chain of command is tainted. That, of course, isn’t how the JAG types see things. To maintain military morale and discipline, the POTUS cannot be under a cloud. Common sense dictates that President Obama releases all records necessary to clear this up (at least the place of birth proof - the issue of his father not being a U.S. citizen is a matter of constitutional interpretation - a SCOTUS issue). It is a no brainer.....something that could have stopped this from the get go.

Personally, I believe that many of the officer corps, that will make up the panel members, are more interested in “truth” not just “legal” procedures dictated to them. Although they will be instructed to only consider what is allowed to be heard in the procedings....I am hopeful that some court members may be prejudiced against the convening authority and the Article 32 JAG for not allowing LTC Lakin to be fully heard as to why he disobeyed. In that, although JAG/UCMJ precident doesn’t agree, motive is very important when it is obvious the person missing movement is not some dirtball, but a highing respected military physician. The man is no shirker or coward. IF some panel members will be “thinkers” and not legal system functionaries...maybe the LTC will be acquited. The former Navy JAG “OldDickHand” (AKA OldDeckHand) would vehemently disagree and tell you I am a moron. That, of course, doesn’t change anything.

The field grade officers I know and associate with are much better on “thinking outside the box.” It will be field grade officers on his court martial panel. Hopefully, they will be able to think outside the prescribed “legal box” they will be instructed to stay within. This is my opinion, and may be wrong.

[Red Steel]

Personally, I believe that many of the officer corps, that will make up the panel members, are more interested in “truth” not just “legal” procedures dictated to them.

The Government's track record is terrible in recent history going after Marines, Soldiers, and SEALs that they accuse of crimes in a war zone? What is the government batting .... 0 for 6 or 0 for 10?....something like that. ;-)

[centurion316]

IF some panel members will be “thinkers” and not legal system functionaries...maybe the LTC will be acquited.

I think that this is wishful thinking on your part. If I were on his court martial panel, I would likely vote to convict. I doubt that I would hear any reference to President Obama, but I don't think that would carry much weight in any case. Court Martial convictions only require a majority vote, and I can't imagine a panel of officers that would return any verdict other than guilty.

The main reason for this is that the Officer Corps does not believe that any member of the military has any right to refuse to deploy on political grounds. When the military is ordered into combat, they go, period. In this case, we are talking about a war directed by two Presidents and authorized by the Congress.

Lakin has allowed himself to become a political pawn and he will pay the price.

[Uncle Chip]

So Uncle Chip, personal attacks is all you’ve got left. Nothing else left in your quiver?

Taking things a little too personally, aren't you??? I must have hit the target. If the shoe fits, then wear it -- otherwise Move On.

Your argument is more than weak, its a non starter.

And yet it finished you off.

You don’t like the way the political system works, so you demand that it be changed to accommodate you.

You don't get it do you??? We Constitutionalists are part of the political system along with what we say and do here and we are shaking it and those like you up. If you don't like it, then Move On.

Do you think that you can find another LTC Lakin out there who is willing to skewer himself in order to satisfy your views on the way things ought to be?

There are more out there and they are coming to the battlefield.

Don’t like Obama? Do something to ensure that he can’t get on the ballot in your state in 2012.

We are -- by exposing the fraud surrounding him and the frauds defending him and the frauds attacking those who are exposing him and them. Which are you???

You’ll find people who will help you do that, though damned few will be politicians of either stripe.

We don't expect any help from politicians -- only statesmen, if there are any left.

Now, please continue with your idiotic personal attacks, they do put you in such a favorable light.

If you think anything I said is a personal attack, then you truly are a liberal victimhood loon and just need to Move ON to your Acorn meeting.

[Red Steel]

The man is no shirker or coward. IF some panel members will be “thinkers” and not legal system functionaries...maybe the LTC will be acquited. The former Navy JAG “OldDickHand” (AKA OldDeckHand) would vehemently disagree and tell you I am a moron. That, of course, doesn’t change anything.

ODH and I have gone around and around on more than a few occasions.

[Sola Veritas]

“If I were on his court martial panel, I would likely vote to convict. I doubt that I would hear any reference to President Obama, but I don’t think that would carry much weight in any case. Court Martial convictions only require a majority vote, and I can’t imagine a panel of officers that would return any verdict other than guilty......The main reason for this is that the Officer Corps does not believe that any member of the military has any right to refuse to deploy on political grounds. When the military is ordered into combat, they go, period. In this case, we are talking about a war directed by two Presidents and authorized by the Congress.”

I have more faith in the intelligence and sensibility of the current officer corps than you do. I am a still serving officer of the Army Reserve. I would vote to acquit....and not for political reasons. All military discipline is dependent upon faith in the chain of command - not mere fear of punishment. A real leader has the integrity to produce simple documentation if challenged. I don’t care if you are a private or POTUS...if there are questions you respond quickly and you don’t stonewall. Plus, I guarantee you that many serving officers of all ranks (both regular and reserve) don’t really hold the same, by the book, view that JAG types do. Many would not drop the hammer on a fellow officer that asked a simple question. Dr. Lakin has quite literally saved lives and would be in Afghanistan right now doing so again if his simple request had been adequately answered. Plus, I think that many would resent, as I do, that JAG bureaucrats are not allowing this man to fully defend himself by presenting why he didn’t follow orders. Today’s officers are much better at thinking “outside the box.”

Now....for the record...I don’t think that even the Vault BC would show anything that would indicate that President Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii. However, LTC Lakin has his doubts, as do many others. They should be answered, not stopped out. This would be a terrible abuse of the UCMJ & the military justice system - in my opinion.

Whatever, I have been wrong before, and most certainly will be again. So, the case may be a slam dunk conviction. I know officers that would so vote. IF they do, maybe a new POTUS in 2012 will pardon him.

[Sola Veritas]

“ODH and I have gone around and around on more than a few occasions.”

Yeah he is a piece of work for sure! One does have to admit he is a smart old cuss...even if he is obnoxious in his approach.

[centurion316]

If you think anything I said is a personal attack, then you truly are a liberal victimhood loon and just need to Move ON to your Acorn meeting.

I rest my case.

The JB Williams info on Certification has been out there since 2009 and I read it when it first appeared. It doesn't prove anything except that something fishy seems to be going on in the Democrat Party. Boy, there's a blinding flash of the obvious. You seem to think its the mother lode, but I'm doubt that you will find many who agree.

I don't buy your argument and I'm not going anywhere, although apparently Free Republic had some server problems for awhile. Neither are these lame attempts to have Obama declared ineligible.

[centurion316]

I share your concerns about the JAG Corps. I don’t know what’s going on with those guys, but their behavior has been troubling at times. I don’t believe that this case is being driven by JAG, Lakin has thrown down a gauntlet and the Army has no choice but to respond. He’ll be convicted, in my opinion, and that will be a shame. I think that a pardon is a distinct possibility, once the court has done what it has to do.

My position on Obama’s eligibility is that he was likely born in Hawaii, but has something to hide that might call his eligibility into question. He certainly needs to hide his past from the American electorate and the birth issue may just be a convenient excuse for his elaborate and expensive effort to wipe the record. The American people deserve to know everything that he is trying to hide, and when they learn it he will become unelectable. However, the courts are not going to help us do it and military courts are not going anywhere near that issue. Lakin will stand and fall on refusing to obey a lawful order to deploy, which he clearly did. The Obama issue will never be heard.

[Uncle Chip]

I rest my case.

You never had one --

[MileHi]

The present Supreme Court may well have the five votes necessary to strike the Natural Born citizen clause and at least four will jump at the chance to do it.

Wow. The SCOTOS can unilaterally amend the Constitution? Who knew?

[centurion316]

Wow. The SCOTOS can unilaterally amend the Constitution? Who knew?

Yep, and its a lesson worth learning. They have been doing it since the Franklin Roosevelt administration. What they will do in this case is redefine Natural Born Citizen into something that includes anyone born on the Planet Earth. I'm not kidding.

[centurion316]

Have a wonderful summer Uncle Chip, and get those kids off your lawn.

[Uncle Chip]

They have been doing it since the Franklin Roosevelt administration. What they will do in this case is redefine Natural Born Citizen into something that includes anyone born on the Planet Earth. I'm not kidding.

And when and/or if they do, will you be there applauding and succumbing to their decision, or objecting and fighting against it like LTC Lakin???

[centurion316]

Lakin is tilting at windmills, I don’t recommend that course of action to anyone.

I advocate the election of conservative men and women who will fight the confirmation of leftie judges rather than rolling over to accommodate their Democrat friends in the Senate. That effort begins in November with the election of Senators who will put a stop to the confirmation of Obama’s nominees until we can send him on his way in 2012.

[Uncle Chip]

That effort begins in November with the election of Senators who will put a stop to the confirmation of Obama’s nominees until we can send him on his way in 2012.

Will that election be before or after immigration reform passes the Senate and creates 30 million new Obama voters overnight????