Chinese Firm Drops Local IQ Standards for U.S. Hires

Daily Tech ^ | July 8, 2010 | Jason Mick

[decimon]

Says lower IQ rates will help it deal with smaller U.S. talent pool

The U.S. has arguably been the most desirable place in the world to get a college education with international students from China, India, Japan, and others all traveling to the U.S. with that express purpose. However, there's serious signs of trouble; U.S. citizens' college graduation rates are in danger of falling behind China. Japanese enrollment is down as U.S. universities are slowly falling out of favor. And at least one executive of an Indian firm complained that American graduates were "unemployable".

Adding to the list of awkward statistics is a recent announcement by Bleum Inc., a Chinese outsourcing company. In China, with a deluge of available highly-intelligent graduates, Bleum Inc. requires that its workers score over 140 on an IQ test.

When it decided to recruit American computer science graduates, though, it decided that bar was way too high. It dropped the requirement for the Americans down to 120, a move it says reflects a lower pool of talented college grads in the U.S.

Bleum says the move is meant as no affront to the U.S. Its founder and CEO Eric Rongley is actually an American himself. He says that in China his firm gets thousands of applications a week from eager college grads. With about 1,000 employees, his firm hires less than 1 percent of those who apply. He states, "It is much harder to get into Bleum than it is to Harvard."

[Constitutions Grandchild]

I'm familiar with the quote.

Finally, I'd like to see our Immigration Laws enforced. As to the current population of illegal immigrants, I'd like to see them receive a Green Card with a two-year term, renewable for 5 consecutive two year periods with the proviso that:

1) If they live and work here for two years without being convicted of a violent crime, a crime related to narcotics or a felony AND they are enrolled in classes to learn English at the minimum functioning standards (say a third grader) and are also enrolled in Civics course, they may apply for the second two-year term.

2) At the end of the second term, they must demonstrate a higher level of language skills and be able to pass the basic civics requirements. If at any time a felony is committed or violent crime or a crime involving narcotics or human trafficing is committed, it's "Hasta la vista, baby!"

At the end of the 10 year temporary worker term, they must either A) apply to become a US citizen or B) go home. If at any time the temporary worker does not apply for an extension or does not meet certain standards in English and Civics proficiency, their worker privileges are revoked and they go to the back of the line.

I don't care that they come here. I'm flattered they find it hospitable enough to want to stay, but at some point, they must say to themselves — to paraphrase Dorothy in the “Wizard of Oz”, “I don't think we're in Mexico anymore, Toto.” This is America, and we like it that way.

The Chinese are an old civilization -- far older than we -- with far greater problems because of all the baggage they carry foward. Even they realize that not everyone is a good fit to be there.

[Constitutions Grandchild]

Oh, that’s simple. It’s because the man-hole is round. Do I get a prize?

[StolarStorm]

I am dealing with one now. He can't do squat. But he takes credit for everything with the boss. And keeps tying to sneak into other's projects so he can do little, but get the credit. He volunteers for EVERYTHING, but then does nothing. Their culture encourages aggressive backstabbing and creating a facade of competence.

Sadly, so many bosses are clueless about their tactics.

[Niuhuru]

Chinese universities only recruit the best and brightest. They want the cream of their country’s crop and roll out the red carpet for their best. They do not want anyone who is an idiot. Plus, their students study practical things, not Castrate Men (Women’s) Studies. Or African Philosophy. Their political leaders are former scientists and engineers.

[Hodar]

Some answers I get are:

Round items cannot fall into a round hole
They are heavy, and you can roll a cover
As cars go over them, they can rotate in the hole, and not corrode in place
Round is easy to manufacture
We (humans) are essentially round - so we fit in round holes
Round covers are immune to warping, like a rectangular cover
As they heat, they expand radially, thus eliminating stress fractures

So on, and so forth.

[StolarStorm]

I took a test at a local company that was nearly identical to a standard IQ test. It was an IQ test, they just didn’t call it that. But luckily, I’m good at tests. I’m one of those that are off the charts... meaning I’m probably unstable. :)

[Centurion2000]

Some try to get around this via other means, but no US company can directly ascertain a prospective employee’s Stanford-Binet (or other) score.

I know at CapitalOne they used word problems in math to get around that. Flunked 29 out of 30 applicants right off the bat.

[Constitutions Grandchild]

I beg to differ. America is one of the most tolerant of all nations on earth. We have relaxed our social standards to the point of having none. The fact that a parent allows their child to receive drugs to treat the teacher's inability to maintain discipline and engage their students, is the parent's problem. Many, in fact, a majority of problems with children is that parents will tolerate behavior that would have earned me a very sore behind and when my mother really got wound up (usually because I was rather precocious) a concussion. I don't recommend the nuclear option my mother preferred, but I do recommend getting the ground rules straight and maintaining order. (Gee, ya’ think that's why my son is a Marine...now that I see my philosophy in writing, I'll have to stop asking myself how THAT happened.)

[Constitutions Grandchild]

Other than my answer, the only two I might entertain are the last two, but they beg the question. If you asked why MAN-HOLES are round, that's another subject altogether. The only answer I could come up with is that pipes are round and man-holes connect to pipes and are not prone to having debris lodge in corners.

[Centurion2000]

I do this by asking questions that require thought. Such as “Name 5 reasons why a man-hole cover is round”.

Circular plates are the absolute cheapest in terms of material required.

Manholes that are circular cannot fall into the hole. (all other shapes can)

[Will88]

Bleum says the move is meant as no affront to the U.S. Its founder and CEO Eric Rongley is actually an American himself. He says that in China his firm gets thousands of applications a week from eager college grads. With about 1,000 employees, his firm hires less than 1 percent of those who apply. He states, "It is much harder to get into Bleum than it is to Harvard."

This article might not mean very much when the details are looked at. That firm gets 1,000s of applications per week in China, and they hire <1% of those who apply. The are getting their average 140 IQ for a huge pool of applicants in China. Probably a much, much smaller number apply in the US, and I bet they aren't gettting 1,000s of US applicants for each hire.

This tells us little or nothing, beyond that China has 1.3 billion people, and many of them are unemployed and underemployed.

And, we hear so much about the China miracle, but when we get more information, we realize the benefits are still only accruing to about 10% - 15% of their population. I don't think Chinese education is vastly superior to the US if you take the entire nation into account.

[Niuhuru]

“that parents will tolerate behavior that would have earned me a very sore behind and when my mother really got wound up (usually because I was rather precocious) a concussion.”

Exact opposite with me. I know that in areas we are highly tolerant, but there is a huge problems with what society here thinks is normal VS not normal. Being eccentric has gotten me punished more than being bad.

I have to admit that being treated this way has left me pretty burned and biased. I mean, look at what happened to Phoebe Prince. Pretty much bullied to suicide because she was ‘too different’ and being a ‘nerd’ ios punished by social ostracism.

[Hodar]

Also, if you are running cable or a series of connected pipes, there is a lower liklihood of a joint snagging on a round hole, rather than catching a corner of a rectangular hole.

But, the point of this exercise is that it demands that a person envision the problem in his head, rather than spin off some pre-canned answers. If you can envisiona problem, and think of solutions - you are NOT a typical academic.

Very different mind-set - this works well for engineers.

[Hodar]

Circular plates are the absolute cheapest in terms of material required.

Excellent!! Hadn't considered that one. You're hired.

[Constitutions Grandchild]

At some point, my darling, you will realize you are where you are (school or work) to produce something and that your ability to swing your arm ends at the next person's nose. There are rules that every one and every institution has determined are necessary in order to function. Your assignment, should you decide to accept it, is to produce within that framework. What you do in the privacy of your own room is your business — be as crazy as you want — but if your idea of expressing yourself is eating your own boogers or dressing in a manner that causes you to scare children or behavior that borders on Tourrettes, I think you might have to accept the fact that not everyone finds it attractive.

We all start out with a perception of ourselves that, over time, modifies as we find the world at large finds us unremarkable or unacceptable. There isn't one of us who has made it through our twenties that hasn't found out through painful experience that we are not all that.

Without sacrificing your own integrity you must keep on keepin’ on, realizing that you, too, have your own rules of what you will or will not tolerate. I was Phoebe. I almost didn't make it, but coming through on the other side and looking back over a great distance of time, I'm happy with myself and my belief that so long as I “produced” and “gave the public what it wanted”, so long as I broke no laws or tried my hardest not to hurt anyone else, I can live with it. You only have to look at Jesus — he just kept on, keepin’ on and was considered by many to be just another nut. Those of us who have come through the painful experiences of youth have gotten to know Him real well. You might want to give him a look-see.

[StolarStorm]

Great method. At a former company we followed the same rule. We took it a step further and would not hire anyone with a perfect or near perfect GPA. There was a view that they were too book smart to be able to think creatively, overly “skilled” at just regurgitating, excessively ambitious or cheaters. It may not have been fair in all cases, but it was based on previous experiences and what worked. Software Development btw.... where doing is more important than show boating.

[dangerdoc]

“With the right education, IQ scores can be raised significantly. I don’t see this as a priority for the union teacher.”

IQ tends to be stable over a lifetime.

Union teachers cannot raise the IQ of little ones but they can make sure that the bigger ones leave the system ignorant, regardless of their IQ level.

[Gene Eric]

I understand a person’s intelligence is proportionately stable to age forgoing injuries and abuse. I’m not debating this.

IQ tests are not necessarily pure evaluations of intelligence. An IQ test based on foreign material and reason will yield lower scores than one that is not. The difference here is knowledge and experience, not intelligence.

[Constitutions Grandchild]

You both might be interested to know that back in the day, highly ranked medical schools would not take applicants who scored too highly on their MCATS or who had IQs over a certain level. Until Affirmative Action became the law of the land, they wouldn't accept MCATS or IQs below 550.

They wanted solid A, B+ students with MCATS in the 650 to 700s (at that time). Start bumping up around 780-800 and you have the equivalent of nitroglycerin. They wanted students who had shown a desire to become involved in their communities and school. Students who played sports and had hobbies. Why, you might ask? Well, back in the day, the rigors of sleep deprivation and the workload of their studies, coupled with learning to make life and death decisions would have pushed anyone above or below a certain level over the edge.

General business doesn't have to be as exacting. It can tolerate the odd hairpin, if he can produce and doesn't derive his ideas from somewhere on the 5th ring of Saturn. Not everybody has to be the “genius”. It helps to have those with a willing heart to serve to make it happen.

[luckystarmom]

My daughter has a 90 IQ due to a brain injury. The injury affected her speech and language part of her brain.

However, the math side of her brain is okay, and she scores in the top 10% (or higher) on all math tests she takes.

She is a great example of what education can do. We pulled her out of public and put her in private school with a reading program. She’s been in speech therapy since she was 2. Her speech is still delayed, but now she is reading above grade level.

It’s strange to see kids with higher IQs and who don’t have a brain injury doing poorly in school, and my daughter with a brain injury is on the honor roll of a top private school. My daughter knows how to work and how to study.