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The War Is Over - So Why The Bitterness?
Old Virginia Blog ^ | 10 April 2011 | Richard G. Williams, Jr.

Posted on 04/11/2011 7:51:03 AM PDT by Davy Buck

"The fact that it is acceptable to put a Confederate flag on a car *bumper and to portray Confederates as brave and gallant defenders of states’ rights rather than as traitors and defenders of slavery is a testament to 150 years of history written by the losers." - Ohio State Professer Steven Conn in a recent piece at History News Network (No, I'll not difnigy his bitterness by providing a link)

This sounds like sour grapes to me. Were it not for the "losers" . . .

(Excerpt) Read more at oldvirginiablog.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Books/Literature; History; Military/Veterans; Politics
KEYWORDS: civilwar; confederacy; southern
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1 posted on 04/11/2011 7:51:09 AM PDT by Davy Buck
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The fact that Abraham Lincoln is worshipped as a god and revered for preserving the Union is a sign that history is written by the winners. Truth is, he was a usurper of the Constitution and a war criminal.


2 posted on 04/11/2011 7:55:44 AM PDT by Arkansas Toothpick
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To: Davy Buck

They are bitter because we are not defeated. The war may be over, but the hostilities still go on.

And it is the WAR OF NORTHERN AGGRESSION, if you please.


3 posted on 04/11/2011 7:57:02 AM PDT by Jemian
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To: Davy Buck

So we should feel the same of the indians? They fought and lost every war thet fought against the USA. Most indian tribes fought for the British in the American Revolution.


4 posted on 04/11/2011 7:58:22 AM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: Davy Buck
I have ancestors who were in the Union Cavalry, I'm a yankee to bone.

Thats said...

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And if this doesn't send shivers down your spine, nothing will.

5 posted on 04/11/2011 8:00:26 AM PDT by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: Davy Buck

I’d pose that we are still bitter because one side decided the other side was wrong, killed enough so they would surrender, starved their families and ruined their homes then said “Let’s forget this ever happened...”.


6 posted on 04/11/2011 8:00:26 AM PDT by matginzac
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To: Davy Buck
The question that STILL has not been answered is whether secession by the individual states is illegal or just impractical.

Given the current federal dictatorship, the question recurs...

7 posted on 04/11/2011 8:00:37 AM PDT by jonascord (The Drug War Rapes the Constitution.)
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To: wardaddy

Bump for later read....


8 posted on 04/11/2011 8:01:06 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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Amused bump


9 posted on 04/11/2011 8:04:03 AM PDT by K-Stater
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To: Arkansas Toothpick

10 posted on 04/11/2011 8:06:10 AM PDT by stormer
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To: Arkansas Toothpick
Lincoln is simply the second-greatest president to Washington. ANY other president would have immediately declared all the Southerners to be traitors (they were) and pardoned them afterward. Can you name me one other rebellion where the rebel forces were not labeled traitors? English Civil War? Spanish Civil War? Any of the French revolutions? Any modern war? No you cannot, because the very definition of traitor is one who raises arms against a duly-constituted government.

How many people did ol' Jeff Davis slam in jail? How many civil rights did that tyrant abuse? Oh, we get to forget about him because he was "doin' it for ol' Dixie." Hogwash. If Lincoln had done what he should have done in 1861, the war probably wouldn't have gone on as long as it did. Instead, he tried to "be nice," encourage the South to return, rather than immediately going after the heart of the rebellion, slavery.

11 posted on 04/11/2011 8:06:10 AM PDT by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: Celtic Cross

I have at least one ancestor who fought in Custer’s Michigan cavalry (and died with him later at Little Big Horn). I also have ancestors who faught for the South. My great x 5 grandpa owned a plantation in Virginia, but ended up freeing all his slaves becaue he didn’t believe much in slavery. He had 7 sons. When the war came, the five older ones went to war and were killed. The 2 younger ones were sent to live with a relative in another state away from the fighting. When the war was over, the two boys came back and found their house burned to the ground and their parents dead.


12 posted on 04/11/2011 8:07:52 AM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis (Want to make $$$? It's easy! Use FR as a platform to pimp your blog for hits!!!)
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To: Jemian
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the south's gonna rise again...


13 posted on 04/11/2011 8:08:56 AM PDT by stormer
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To: Celtic Cross; Davy Buck


14 posted on 04/11/2011 8:11:39 AM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis (Want to make $$$? It's easy! Use FR as a platform to pimp your blog for hits!!!)
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To: stormer

That’s me on the left.


15 posted on 04/11/2011 8:19:04 AM PDT by Jemian
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To: DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis

Another fallacy is that the war was fought over slavery. In reality, of course, by far the most important issue was states rights. Making slavery the core issue is just a way for the liberals to demonize the Confederates and destroy any respect people might have for them.


16 posted on 04/11/2011 8:19:21 AM PDT by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: Davy Buck

The bitterness is more recent. There wasn’t nearly as much bitterness in the immediate aftermath of the War.

If you ask me, the bitterness comes from the South having to endure a constant barrage of abuse from places like Hollywood and the New York elites who still think we’re all nothing but a bunch of gap-toothed racist crackers who use outhouses and bang our sisters on a regular basis. It comes from most of the South STILL having to run every little redistricting change by the Federal government almost fifty years after the Voting Rights Act.

I was born in 1966. I’m too young to remember segregated schools (my Virginia county was one of the last to desegregate in 1967-68). But I’m not too young to remember the race-based busing riots in Northern cities in the 1970s. Funny how they’re not the racists and we are.

But that’s OK. It’s a supreme irony that the South lost the War but, in a way, has won the peace. We are now the place where people want to live. We’re where the growth is. We’ve pulled millions of jobs from the wreckage of the industrial North. We may have never been able to beat the mighty cavalry of Michigan, but 150 years later, where would you rather live—Detroit, or Atlanta?

}:-)4


17 posted on 04/11/2011 8:23:11 AM PDT by Moose4 ("By all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!")
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To: LS
Lincoln is simply the second-greatest president to Washington.

I wonder just how much Washington and his cohort of traitors to the duly-constituted government of King George of 1776 would appreciate the comparison. Perhaps they would just smile at the irony and recall Ben Franklin's remark at the conclusion of the Constitutional Convention: "A republic, if you can keep it." Lasted about three generations...the rest has been just a prolonged denouement.

18 posted on 04/11/2011 8:24:31 AM PDT by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: Davy Buck
No one can fairly criticize the guts and the personal integrity of the Confederate army, or most of the Confederacy's leaders.

Nevertheless, they were fighting to defend a system under which one man could own another man, do what he pleased with him, and own that man's descendants in perpetuity.

Not a philosophy which would recommend itself to a site titling itself "Free Republic".

19 posted on 04/11/2011 8:27:47 AM PDT by Notary Sojac
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To: Arkansas Toothpick

As a northerner and a Freeper, I’ve had a hard time figuring out why Lincoln is considered “great”

- It was never Lincoln’s intent to free the slaves. Emmancipation simply proved to be a way to swing European support in favor of the North. While a brilliant political move, it was highly hypocritical. Most people regard Lincoln as some sort of crusaider of freedom, but the history doesn’t support this view.

- I am strongly against a strong central government. The centralized government that we’re stuck with now was largely started by Lincoln (FDR brought it to another level).

- Lincoln allowed the war to fester by choosing incompetent military leadership. The North had the resources and manpower to stop the South in a matter of months instead of four years. McClellan, possibly one of the most inept generals in American history, was actually re-assigned to a position that he failed at. He could have made an extrodinary deal to keep Lee as a neutral, rather than a formidable Southern general, as Lee was only interested in fighting for Virginia, not the idea of succession. And as much as the South hates Grant and Sherman, had Lincoln used such generals at the head of the army at the beginning, both the South and the North would have suffered less in the lon run. Many hundred of thousands died because of this lack of leadership.

- Lincoln suspended key parts of the Constitution to suit his needs. He violated both the letter and the spirit of the law. I find this the hardest to swallow.


20 posted on 04/11/2011 8:29:28 AM PDT by kidd
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To: Davy Buck

The guy is an idiot. The Civil War was most certainly fought over slavery. Call it states rights if you want but it was over THAT state right, not any other.

The slaves knew it. Lincoln knew it. Anyone with an IQ over 50 knows it.


21 posted on 04/11/2011 8:30:43 AM PDT by Peter from Rutland
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To: Moose4

> If you ask me, the bitterness comes from the South having
> to endure a constant barrage of abuse

Spot on. I agree with this 100%.


22 posted on 04/11/2011 8:32:54 AM PDT by Peter from Rutland
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To: Davy Buck; Squantos; stainlessbanner; Pelham; Travis McGee
I'm fine with Yankees..my daughter is about to marry a fine Italian NY one

and I've buried my share of Yankee kin respectfully

but those who wish to denigrate my ancestors and apply out of context politically correct judgment on them to puff about how swell they are about black people when in reality they either are actually completely unfamiliar with the black race

or never mention how the North never wanted the blacks and treated them as second class citizens

can simply kiss my ass

and that goes double for those here

without white conservatives in Dixie this nation woulda died decades ago under a troika of black, latino and Wisconsin Union style whites and their socialist pecadillos

and those here who view America under the steady crucible of race..including some very prominent freepers...while I respect you mean well...need to have an epiphany

what America has been far outstrips handwringing over how blacks, Indians, women or Orientals and Mexicans have been treated

it is pure self flagellating nonsense to focus on that...by design used by those who hate us anyhow to destroy us..this absurd fixation

even at our worst we treated blacks better than they treated themselves in Africa and slaves lived longer here and the concept of freedom as we value today was unheard of in the Dark Continent...that is called "context" kids

and don't get me started on man flesh eating human skinning slave owning Native Americans...of whom I and my wife have their blood flowing thru our veins...they were soooooo "perfect" till the evil crackers got here...

or how we discriminated against Mexicans...I mean look how kind they are to one another down there..we are so bad in comparison here aren't we?

23 posted on 04/11/2011 8:32:57 AM PDT by wardaddy (ok...Trump---Sarah----Michelle.....any of them are ok for now---tain't picky)
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To: Davy Buck

Ugliest war we’ve ever fought.


24 posted on 04/11/2011 8:33:10 AM PDT by popdonnelly (Democrats = authoritarian socialists)
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To: stormer

You mean southern Michigan, right?


25 posted on 04/11/2011 8:34:58 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Davy Buck

The Civil War lasted five years 150 years ago. It continues unabated on FR. The outcome remains the same.


26 posted on 04/11/2011 8:35:27 AM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: LS

Why wasn’t Bobby Lee and Jeff Davis tried for treason? Because that would put the legality of secession on trial, and the US would have lost that trial making the entire war illegal.


27 posted on 04/11/2011 8:37:31 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Moose4
If you ask me, the bitterness comes from the South having to endure a constant barrage of abuse from places like Hollywood and the New York elites who still think we’re all nothing but a bunch of gap-toothed racist crackers who use outhouses and bang our sisters on a regular basis.

I think you're closest to the truth. I'm a Yankee, but I have roots in the deep south (Georgia.) If I were forced to choose between living in the North or the South, I'd choose the South in a heartbeat. People there are more genuine, more God-fearing and more patriotic. They think nothing of proclaiming their love of country, something that seems to have gone out of vogue elsewhere.

Hollywood and the entertainment industry do hate the South, and don't mind showing it. Whens the last time you heard a pop or rap star singing about how much they love America? In Country music, you hear that sort of thing all the time. While they realize this nation has faults, Southerners are proud Americans and aren't embarrassed to say so.


28 posted on 04/11/2011 8:39:03 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (A communist is just a liberal in a hurry)
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To: Celtic Cross
Confederates and destroy any respect people might have for them and the concept of states rights and sovereignty.

Fixed it.

29 posted on 04/11/2011 8:41:07 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: reagan_fanatic

Me too, in my case North Carolina going all the way back to the Revolution.


30 posted on 04/11/2011 8:43:06 AM PDT by Peter from Rutland
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To: Celtic Cross

So true!


31 posted on 04/11/2011 8:43:48 AM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis (Want to make $$$? It's easy! Use FR as a platform to pimp your blog for hits!!!)
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To: Moose4
Yankee animosity like that expressed here is a new thing.

When I grew up they simply did not do that.

Reagan and Buckley and Goldwater had more in common with and voted like Dixiecrats than they did liberal to moderate GOP.

and none of them touted all that PC Civil Rights stuff like Beck and hannity do now.

nope...this steady onslaught as exemplified by a handful here is a new thing

not sure why...just a symptom of the insidousness of political correctness that it's infected folks who call themselves social conservatives ...I think it makes some folks feel morally superior about race issues..something some northerners need to feel..some lib southerners do it too..a few

before all this most decent Yankees this side of Charles Schumer..er Sumner were willing to let the South view their distinctness as they wished

now it's a target for them same as it is for Sharpton or Jesse

if that's who freepers wish to lie with so be it

Southerness is just not something California as a rule understands here and they have let some liberal south bashers run here a long time on long leashes

that homo purge got a few ...hopefully..JR can think up another trap to bag a few more

it's funny that many northerners who harp on this don't even have ancestry here that far back..

my future son in law from Cornwall NY is all Dixie though...he came here to follow my daughter and get away from the rot of the north...he said it's sickening how weak people have become there ..at least in NYC area...and nauseatingly PC and ashamed and he loves Franklin TN

In Mississippi 90% of whites call themselves conservative and 88% vote GOP..nowhere else like that...something finger pointing ..slavery obsessed Yankees cannot have..shame

as we say down here...get yer own house in order...thanks

for the record..color me ambivalent on Lincoln...but his terms were better than the Radicals...the liberal Dems of the day

32 posted on 04/11/2011 8:45:40 AM PDT by wardaddy (ok...Trump---Sarah----Michelle.....any of them are ok for now---tain't picky)
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To: Davy Buck

Nothing like yankee propaganda. It’s every bit as good as the Communist propaganda that it is.


33 posted on 04/11/2011 8:46:12 AM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: Liberty Valance

the outcome is still being determined and given that so many Yankees have come down here to be with us

and not just jobs but more often culture

provides an answer you might oughta examine

I mean I count at least a dozen white Detroit expats as my friends here in metro Nashville

and they are stalwarts...flags, gun rack, skoal...the whole enchilada

they are more than welcome here

the Kali folks...and New Englanders...not the same

White Midwesterners are more like us...no question


34 posted on 04/11/2011 8:49:54 AM PDT by wardaddy (ok...Trump---Sarah----Michelle.....any of them are ok for now---tain't picky)
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To: Notary Sojac

“Nevertheless, they were fighting to defend a system under which one man could own another man, do what he pleased with him, and own that man’s descendants in perpetuity.”

Yeah, right. Public school indoctrinated, I see.

The North had slavery just the same and even defended it by amending several of their state constitutions to strengthen it not long before the war. In fact, Lincoln himself had written and argued that free slaves should not be welcomed into the State of Illinois. In case you didn’t know, Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation didn’t free a single Northern slave or southern one, just the ones the Union army captured. That’s right; they even used them as slaves for the Union army even after that so-called “proclamation”.

So much for the South being the defenders of slavery and the North being something else.


35 posted on 04/11/2011 8:51:06 AM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: CodeToad
Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation didn’t free a single Northern slave or southern one, just the ones the Union army captured.

I think there was a more practical reason, I think he was running out of Irish conscripts and needed more bodies to put between D.C. and the Army of NoVa.

36 posted on 04/11/2011 8:57:23 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: CodeToad
In fact, Lincoln himself had written and argued that free slaves should not be welcomed into the State of Illinois.

Quote please?

37 posted on 04/11/2011 8:58:21 AM PDT by K-Stater
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To: CodeToad
You are obviously confusing me with someone who believes that Lincoln was a shining advocate of freedom.

It's certainly possible to recognize the real flaws on the Northern side while not excusing the worse flaws of the South.

38 posted on 04/11/2011 8:59:25 AM PDT by Notary Sojac
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To: K-Stater

“Quote please?”

Not my job to educate you. Try reading about lincoln instead of simply repeating what you think you know about the period during the war. I’m not going to drag you around doing your research and educating you on the lincoln and the war. I don’t have time for every ignorant idiot that demands someone else teach them something. Your fingers aren’t broken. Go google for it. Stupid and lazy is no way to go through life.


39 posted on 04/11/2011 9:06:37 AM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: T-Bird45

Didn’t they say, “If this be treason, let us make the most of it?” Did any of them think they were still “loyal Englishmen” after affixing their names to the document in 1776? If so, why did they expect as Franklin said, to “hang separately” if they didn’t hang together. They all knew they were traitors at the end of the day.


40 posted on 04/11/2011 9:08:21 AM PDT by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: CodeToad
Not my job to educate you.

Just your job to make things up as you go along. Thanks for clearing that up for us. Please continue.

41 posted on 04/11/2011 9:08:42 AM PDT by K-Stater
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To: central_va
"...out of Irish conscripts..."

Something I have trouble understanding is why so many Irish fought for the North. After escaping the tyranny of the English, you'd think they'd flock to the southern banner.

My best guess is this; the Irish faced massive discrimination and hatred from the native yankess, and were desperate to prove their worth and mettle to their adopted nation.

My own ancestor, Patrick Slain, was in the Union Cavalry. I just hope he never killed a southernor.

42 posted on 04/11/2011 9:09:28 AM PDT by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: LS
Funny, the Crown recognized the colonies as sovereigns but somehow that was destoyed by the USC?

"A republic if you can keep it"

B. Franklin

43 posted on 04/11/2011 9:12:05 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: jonascord
The question that STILL has not been answered is whether secession by the individual states is illegal or just impractical. Given the current federal dictatorship, the question recurs...

Secession is clearly legal. The issue is whether the tyrant in our White House will respect the law and the Constitution or just impose his will on free people. If we are unable to reverse the evil of these past few years and TX or a few other states choose to leave, I'll go with them. Socialism is not acceptable, and ObamaCare will be dismantled along with the oversized federal government or Atlas will shrug.

44 posted on 04/11/2011 9:15:21 AM PDT by Pollster1 (Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)
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To: central_va

But the colonists themselves never saw themselves as sovereigns. They didn’t even think they had the “rights of Englishmen.” (”If this be treason, let us make the most of it”).


45 posted on 04/11/2011 9:16:01 AM PDT by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: Davy Buck

Read up on Shermans’s March, The Reconstruction and Carpet baggers and you will understand how the bitterness lingers.


46 posted on 04/11/2011 9:19:11 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: LS

Yes, the rebels of 1776 are recorded as saying those quotes and acknowledging their status as “traitors” to King George and England. I found it interesting you would characterize Lincoln as second-best to an acknowledged traitor. It just seems that pejorative language fails to take context into account.

BTW, I am working through some of your books. I’m going to have to skip ahead to the Civil War section so I can better understand your point of view in this matter.


47 posted on 04/11/2011 9:20:22 AM PDT by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: Moose4
"The bitterness is more recent. There wasn’t nearly as much bitterness in the immediate aftermath of the War."

You're right. Union and Confederate vets held national reunion encampments together until the vets were so old they couldn't make the journey anymore. I don't remember any outcries against the CSA during the commemoration years for the 100th anniversary of the war. I think the demonization escalated in the late 60's with Dr. King's assassination, and in the early 70's, helped by big-mouths like Sharpton and Jackson, the growth of black power, the organization of the Black Panthers, and the increased militancy of the Nation of Islam. I also believe that the radical left, the anti-war crowd, and others helped to create the intolerant atmosphere that has been part and parcel of this country since that time.

48 posted on 04/11/2011 9:24:44 AM PDT by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway...John Wayne)
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To: nnn0jeh

ping


49 posted on 04/11/2011 9:26:31 AM PDT by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: Pollster1
Secession is clearly legal.

Secession is neither legal or illegal. The USC is totally silent(Still after all these years and a Civil War) on the subject. The right to leave the Union is not something can or should be codified, it is unspoken natural right.

IMO each state should have to vote EVERY YEAR to stay in the Union, the default would be sovereignty.

50 posted on 04/11/2011 9:26:43 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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