Urban Survival Skills To Keep Your Ass Alive

survive2thrive.ne ^ | 7/14/11 | Steve

[Kartographer]

Even if you are fortunate enough to have a retreat out in the country getting to your safe haven maybe impossible during upheaval. Roads blocked by wrecked and fuelless vehicles will stop most bugouters in their tracks. Maybe you were born lucky and can make it out safely before the balloon bursts, then what? People in rural areas, will start shooting if threatened by mobs of refugees fleeing the city. Don’t expect to be welcomed with arms outstretched. Most country folks don’t trust outsiders; you will likely be greeted with a load of buckshot and not the cup of fresh coffee and meaningful conversation you hoped for.

[familyop]

I don’t expect the radical SHTF scenario, BTW, although default is likely. Remember cultural differences between the USA and less developed countries along with the fact that some of the events reported by Fernando were sporadic ones, mentioned in anecdotes about locations distant from his.

Others have mentioned experiences in Iraq, including one gentleman who described himself as a combat specialty veteran (said he was infantry, but who knows). The USA is not likely to have an ethnic civil war soon. Ethnic civil wars are far worse than other civil wars. Economic poorness alone is far less worse than either.

And you (all) may or may not have experience with having spent much time in a poor area of a poor country. Whole different scenario there. Generally peaceful but potentially frustrating and depressing. The technically inclined w/ rough, tough work ethics tend to do relatively well in those places and times.

[Travis McGee]

I’m a warm-weather-wussy, so there is little risk of seeing me there.

[Travis McGee]

We lived a few years on 12v power on sailboats. Like you said, AC is out. Everything else is in. As far as laundry, I like to stay in the tropics. A bathing suit is pretty easy to wash!

[Travis McGee]

Interesting to study the freshness between coffee in all-steel cans and the plastic tubs with mylar/plastic seals. I’d bet on the steel, but I might be surprised.

[Travis McGee]

In general, I don’t want to wind up in a Waco/Alamo/Ruby Ridge standoff.

Make mine mobile.

[Travis McGee]

I think our tri-racial cities are going to go Rwanda on steroids when the power goes out.

If the power is out more than a week, ALL bets are OFF.

[familyop]

On short takeoff and landing, have either of you two seen a Helio? Those planes are interesting—used a lot way down south. It would also be possible to fix an old one up, for one who has enough industrial technical experience. Remember, though, that the tubing used in those is not straight steel (requires very special welding experience), and custom machining and metallurgy experience needs to be exceptional.

[Georgia Girl 2]

There ya go. No laundry problems. LOL! No heating worries either.

[PapaBear3625]

Leave the bodies in the road as a message.

Leave the heads on stakes as a message. The bodies can feed the dogs, so that the rest of the food is available for humans. Dogs like meat, and aren't that picky about where it came from.

[little jeremiah]

I much prefer composting toilets as ashes and lime in pit outhouses keep the smell down, but don’t help compost the excrement. Sawdust from non-kiln dried lumber, chipper shredded stuff, leaf mould, dirt, etc all work well. The crap composts within a few months or less and the entire sysmtem is normally without any odor at all. All you need are a number of five gallon buckets and the composting materials, and a place to dump the buckets to compost completely. When we did it we had about 8 buckets and they partially composted in them before being dumped. It was quite non-offensive, relatively speaking, and much less offensive that a regular pit outhouse.

Link to Humanure online:

http://weblife.org/humanure/

Instructions:

http://humanurehandbook.com/instructions.html

[CodeToad]

“I’d bet on the steel, but I might be surprised.”

Yep, did that. The plastic tubs from 5 years ago are as fresh as ever. The metal tins were just fine, too. I suspect 10 years wouldn’t be a problem for either.

[arkady_renko]

Travis, is that The Busted Flush?

[familyop]

"I’m a warm-weather-wussy, so there is little risk of seeing me there."

I would be happy to see you here. We have a good natured acquaintance, who had the same MOS as me. Boating in the ocean again looks exceedingly tempting, BTW. ...loved growing up for twelve years in a tropical place except for the crazy wet bulb (heat & humidity) and crowds. ;-)

We saw many of the other kind of people the last two summers (but not this summer): untrained, proud, introverted, couch potato, suburban folks coming all the way from the City (~ 100 miles) to dry run with their RVs in campgrounds and on vacant parcels only during summer. If they attempted to winter, they would be more potential bodies to surface during the seasonal runoff (thaw). Thank goodness, fuel prices slowed that suicidal traffic down to a tiny bit. ...only one of 'em out there now, a few miles away.

Our friends are humble and open about themselves in person. They're common, hard working and technically inclined. We avoid getting too familiar with the first-name-basis-only people, the officious, and the edgy: those who will be sliding back down to the cities--most of them--as the default process continues (energy, food, lack of revenues, lack of jobs, probably colder climate here in two or three years, etc.).

[arkady_renko]

bookmark

[MileHi]

I’m a warm-weather-wussy, so there is little risk of seeing me there.

Ha! I hear you yet here I am in the foothills of the Rockies, where I was born.

It is interesting to see "urbanites" during cold weather. They wear shorts and a light jacket because they don't intend to be out long, just short trips from their section eight housing and the public bus or choo-choo. They will freeze in the dark in short order if things go bad in the winter. They sure have no experience exerting themselves (clearing snow, splitting wood) with 20 degree air stinging their lungs. We have often been perfectly comfortable above 8500 feet in elk camp in a 1946 army wall tent for two weeks that never got above 15-20 degrees. But chores do need to be done, vehicles maintained...

[MHGinTN]

Particularly coal ashes, which my grandfather used in his outhouse. Even when he had indoor plumbing in the corncrib/vacation house, he continued to use his outhouse. He heated with coal in a huge fireplace, so there was an abundance of coal ashe for the johnny house.

[PapaBear3625]

Orders which will be ignored by most uniformed officers. They'll be thinking of protecting their families and homesteads first and foremost.

We saw that in the LA riots and Katrina. And THAT was in an environment where the officers knew they WOULD get paid after it was all over.

In an environment where there is no pay, and no likelihood of pay, expect the officers to desert and look after their own. Also expect officers to band together and try to make a go of it as feudal lords, exchanging "protection" for food and women. If things collapse, most law enforcement officers will be just another armed gang.

[familyop]

"In general, I don’t want to wind up in a Waco/Alamo/Ruby Ridge standoff."

LOL! Must be quite a neighborhood, where you're at.

"Make mine mobile."

That's one beautiful way to get away for sure.

[Ramius]

Hey! I just yesterday finished your fourth book, Castigo Cay. As with the EF&D series... Loved it! It’s all way too frighteningly plausible.

I hope you’ve got a plan to keep publishing after you bug out... :-)

[verity]

Y2K syndrome?

[familyop]

"I think our tri-racial cities are going to go Rwanda on steroids when the power goes out.

If the power is out more than a week, ALL bets are OFF."

What kinds of disasters would be likely to bring that on? ...haven't seen that only from economic poverty and squalor.

[familyop]

"Anyone whose worst case scenario includes still having electricity and functioning sewage and water coming out of the faucets ought to re-think their plans."

Agreed!

"One can get perfectly clean with a 4 gallons of water, a bucket and something to pour it with."

Yep. Better than the quart canteen for soldiers in the field!

"Also people need to think of soap and other cleaning supplies. I have several cases of Kirks Castile soap - works if need be for clothes, as well as skin and hair. Rinses very fast so uses less water."

Yes. I'm not expecting the end of the world, but I am cheap and enjoy being clean. ;-)

[Ellendra]

Yeah, I’m planning on a composting toilet system myself, but I wanted to throw the ashes thing out there for anybody who was planning to use lime.

[little jeremiah]

Did you read “Patriots”?

Some things that could threaten grid power, mix and match with added economic collapse.

Natural disasters + econ. collapse

Several natural disasters at once + econ. collapse

War with optional natural disaster + econ. collapse

Toss in a few jihadi mayhem scenarios + econ collapse

Remember a few years ago about 1/3 of the country, or at any rate, most of the east coast and part of the midwest, had a huge blackout? Oddly enough, exactly 2 weeks later there was one in Europe some place and IIRC, 2 weeks after that another one. Supposedly here in the US it was a squirrel or oak tree or something... Now imagine grid collapse plus one or more of the above.

Add the social mayhem being fomented by the left as leavening.

[Errant]

On short takeoff and landing, have either of you two seen a Helio?

Yes, they are expensive and hard to find these days. Also parts are hard to get and they need more maintenance than your typical Cessna or Piper. Great short field performance and hauling capacity but there are other options.

The current STOL record holder is a slightly modified Piper SuperCub. You can build yourself one of these as well as a number of other great homebuilt STOL aircraft.

A few that come to mind are the Supercubs, Wag-Aero Sportsman 2+2 based on a PA-14, Glastar composite Sportsman 2+2, Zenair 701 & 801, and a number of others. The great thing about homebuilts is that you can build the parts or use non-certified parts and do your own maintenance.

Plain old Cessna 172s and 182s as well as Piper 140s and 180s are very reasonable now. Maintenance is a headache and expensive with certified aircraft where even a 3/8ths washer or an O-Ring will have a paper trail and most of the work will require a certified A&P mechanic with an annual inspection by an AI.

[Errant]

Alaska STOL competition videos on Youtube.

[Kartographer]

If I am wrong so? I Have some extra food and supplies that I will eventually be able to use and very likely I saved money on them both from buying in bulk and inflation. But if you are wrong what do you tell your family?

“There is no greater disaster than to underestimate danger.
Underestimation can be fatal.”

One thing that people who like to bring up Y2K is that they don't realize that the fact that people were ringing the alarm over it cause it to be taken seriously. Companies who the problem wasn't even on their radar suddenly realized that they had a problem coming at them and they started spending millions of dollars and thousand of man hours to make sure it was fixed before if did cause problems. What do you think would have happened if the problem wasn't address and steps not taken? I'll tell you what exactly what people were concerned about. Just because an alarm was sounded and heeded and catastrophe avoided that doesn't make the concern any less valid. I guess if a city is warned of a dangerous killer hurricane and the city is evacuated and not loss of life occurs then the evacuation was hyperbole?

Prepare or don't that's you choice, but I point out its only been the last 60-50 that put by a bit for hard times is not the norm.

Do you buy house insurance expecting or wanting your house to burn down? No of course you don't, but is it not smart to take precaution just in case? Of course it is.

I would like to ask you a couple questions; if you don't believe in prepping then why would you take the time to post something disparaging on a thread clearly made up of those who do? What do you gain? What do we gain from your remarks?

If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
1 Timothy 5:8

[blam]

"With clear fields of fire, you’d only have to pick off a couple at distance and they’d move to greener pastures. Remember, they will NOT be interested in gaining territory, only goods and women."

Hmmm. I hadn't thought of that...maybe I'll be able to trade them a bag of beans for a woman, eh?

She'll have to be able to cook, sew and clean....

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

If things collapse, most law enforcement officers will be just another armed gang.

They'll be free to do as they wish as long as they maintain a respectful distance from my domain. Which, under present materiel constraints, is about 200 yards.

[Travis McGee]

We used to know cruisers who would not winter over in South Florida because it was too cold, and they would have to buy such as sweaters and jackets, and had no desire to. So, work in Lauderdale during the hurricane season, then flee south. A very extreme form of tropical snowbird.

[familyop]

"The current STOL record holder is a slightly modified Piper SuperCub. You can build yourself one of these as well as a number of other great homebuilt STOL aircraft."

Thanks! Very interesting.

[Travis McGee]

By Helio do you mean a gyrocopter, like in the early James Bond and Road Warrior?

[Travis McGee]

No, I just grabbed that photo off the net as indicative of the sailboat escape pod option. My boat pics are around reply 64 or so.

[Travis McGee]

There will be thousands of RVs locked into that final fatal gridlock on SHTF day. Think Hurricane Rita writ large, with no ending. I doubt many will make it to your AO.

[Travis McGee]

I’m glad you’re up for that cold weather exertion, and it will surely weed out the Section 8 crowd in short order.

But I hope to await events in a tropical lagoon.

[Travis McGee]

It’s an interesting conundrum, publishing SHTF novels on the possible eve of SHTF. I hope we have a few more “good years” at least. Heck, I hope we just keep “muddling along” forever.

[Travis McGee]

As far as 171, some things I won’t post in the open. I’m just glad our enemies are not very imaginative.

[Travis McGee]

Plus there are still Cessna tail draggers around, highly prized as STOL craft.

[Travis McGee]

OMG! Great STOL contest videos! That’s insane! Those planes just jump straight up in the air! Under 100’, take off and landing, WOW!

[Travis McGee]

"With clear fields of fire, you’d only have to pick off a couple at distance and they’d move to greener pastures. Remember, they will NOT be interested in gaining territory, only goods and women."

That "picking them off" deal will work both ways. Don't expect idiot zombies walking upright in the open. Bad guys can also operate a scoped deer rifle, and lay your house under stealthy ambush siege. After recon, they find out who the big stud is, and wait for him to exit the house at dawn. BANG! Now daddy is dead, and the evildoers are still out in that treeline somewhere, patiently waiting for Mom, sis and little brother to come out.

[Roccus]

My thought is that in my area, our worries are the marauding groups from urban environs. Realize what it is that they want (goods and women) and make those things unattainable while assuring your own survival with as little hardship as possible. As for the grid, we have county water, but most also have good wells. Electricity is problematic, but can easily be self generated. No sewage or gas mains, but this is a NG producing area. Wells and gas lines to the storage fields can easily be tapped to provide energy for generators, cooking and heat. Most homes are either "free gas" or propane (I have a 500 gal tank) and also have wood and/or coal burners. Folks who live above the road have septic tanks and fields. Those in the bottom like me have sewage treatment systems that require electricity but can be easily bypassed to the creek.
Of course, if we're facing a trained, well armed and logistically supported army (which I doubt will come about), all bets are off.

[MileHi]

Well it is rougher than it used to be but we can and have the gear we need.

It is instructive to see how many folks in town are unable to cope when power goes down for a while during a heavy winter storm. They have zero skills to help themselves even for a few hours.

That said, anymore I enjoy the mild weather of muzzle loading season just fine. {:0)

[Roccus]

That post was to a FReeper claiming to live in the desert.
Trace back through my posts and my #191 to see my situation. Not everyone can get to the ocean easily. Here, my neighbors and myself have prepared to defend against what we believe is the threat.

[Errant]

Yep, 180s and 185s being the most numerous work horses. But these are becoming hard to find as well. The problem is that Cessna hasn't built any for about 30 years now. My Cessna has retractable gear and Cessna hasn't built a single engine retractable for about 25 years now. It's very efficient and has an 800 mile range. It can go from Louisiana to Tampa Florida non-stop or from Louisian to Cancun using standard fuel tanks. Add 30 extra gallons in wing tip tanks and 1,000+ miles are a piece of cake. It's a favorite of fish spotters and can cruise at 150 mph. I've flown it into and out of grass strips less than 2,000' (tree to tree) easily when lightly loaded.

The Cessna 206 with conventional gear is the primo bush plane, so don't discount tricycle gear either. In a SHTF world, there will be plenty of roadway available between road blocks and etc. I expect GA (general aviation) to play a very important roll in transporting people, supplies and medicine as is the case in remote areas of the world where there isn't any roads. That is, unless some damn oppressive dictator like Obama comes to power and implements a no-fly zone over the U.S.

Check out this site for what's available and current prices: www.aso.com

[Errant]

LOL, yep... times have changed and you can build yourself one just like you did with your boat! :)

Check out the EAA

[Errant]

Even mountaintop retreats are accessible by airplane now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-9RPJDoC5E

[SUSSA]

I’d need one heck of a big yacht for my brood; me, wife, kids, grandkids, plus my in-laws. A yacht is a good choice if someone’s family is small enough and the whole family has good seamanship skills. I’m guessing that few of us here have the skills to be safe at sea for an extended time.

What are your thoughts on that?

[Travis McGee]

I think neighbors and mutual defense are critical. An isolated but visible house on lots of acreage will just be a juicy plum, well worth laying sniper siege.

[Roccus]

...well worth laying sniper siege.

And who or what exactly do you propose will do that and to what purpose?

[Travis McGee]

I don’t fly, but I recognize the value of GA post-collapse. In fact, I’ve incorporated light planes flying off roads and dirt strips in all of my four novels as critical plot elements.