Posted on 09/17/2011 7:29:48 AM PDT by Askwhy5times
That is practically word-for-word the hardcore lefty argument for socialized medicine.
Is that not a true statement? You have already stated there is a situation where the government would require that action.
I don't buy the "it is a slippery slope, you cannot draw a line" arguement. We draw those lines every day.
If 1 person, or 10 persons died per year from the cancers caused by these 4 strains of HPV, almost everyone, including me, would agree there should be no government requirement of the vaccine, opt out or not.
If 100 million died this year from the same, almost everyone (but not all) would agree to the requirement.
I think 2,800 are enough deaths to require it, if a reasonable opt out (such as what we have in Texas) is available. I wish Texas would go back to doing the opt out once, not requiring to be renewed every 2 years, but I would live with that while my kids are in school.
I wanted to know how many would need to die before you agree it is an appropriate infringement of liberty.
But thank you for your answer. So about 15 to 16 thousand women a year, but since it takes many years for the cancer to develop, you still would not support it. I don't understand that last part, but I appreciate you taking the time to discuss.
It was a legislative bill. I don’t think he started it, but he did sign it.
It is absolutely untrue and our history proves it. Before vaccines were available somehow this country managed to establish itself and become prosperous without government micromanaging medical decisions. There is not a single vaccine today that we could not live without, without having millions die off. So please, drop that strawman already.
I don't buy the "it is a slippery slope, you cannot draw a line" arguement. We draw those lines every day.
If you're not able to draw the line on principle, then it's only a matter of time before you get Obamacare or socialized medicine. It is inevitable.
If 1 person, or 10 persons died per year from the cancers caused by these 4 strains of HPV, almost everyone, including me, would agree there should be no government requirement of the vaccine, opt out or not.
If 100 million died this year from the same, almost everyone (but not all) would agree to the requirement.
I think 2,800 are enough deaths to require it, if a reasonable opt out (such as what we have in Texas) is available. I wish Texas would go back to doing the opt out once, not requiring to be renewed every 2 years, but I would live with that while my kids are in school.
This is the wrong way to think about the problem. NONE of these deaths are imminent deaths. Every one of those people has the opportunity to decide for themselves whether the risk is worth the benefit. It is not a legitimate function of government to make that decision for an individual in the absence of an imminent emergency that rises to the level of a threat to the security to the state.
If it's that good an idea, there should be no problem convincing people that they should get the vaccine voluntarily. Forced medication of any kind is anathema to liberty.
you don’t read with much comprehension.
“this biologist notes the vaccine is NOT safe. It has a record of having caused more harm than most other vaccines. Frankly, it shouldn’t even be on the market.
Safety and vaccines are not adequately studied for a whole bunch of reasons. I used to be agnostic about vaccines because of their demonstrated benefits with most childhood diseases. Since then, the field has really moved in a bunch of wrong directions at the expense of public safety.”
How about some facts, and citations for same? I’m not a biologist, just a fairly well-informed amateur scientist and father of two girls and a boy. Two girls who DID recieve the Gardasil vacinations as soon as they were available. My MIL had cervical cancer at age 29, and my wife is the oldest person in her family to not have had cancer of some (or several assorted) type(s). My mom died after refusing chemo after her third bout with ovarian cancer, and my family depends on heart attacks to save us from cancer. My daughters are not interested in sex yet, both intending to complete college before they even THINK about a boyfriend. We make jokes about the 10Gauge Magnum, automatic, BELT-FED shotgun I have for dealing with potential boyfriends... (No, I’m NOT certain they really mean it. But they are very serious about their schooling and grades.)
I am very leery of Perry, but think he's a darned sight better than Romney. I think there's much to like in Perry and in Bachmann and in Cain, but a lot MORE to like in Palin. That's why I hope Palin gets in and wins the whole thing.
“Here is what’s different about the HPV vaccine. Diseases like HPV, HIV, and hepatitis are behaviorally obtained. The only way you are going to get them is by choice of actions.”
In a world without date-rape and the strong-arm variety of rape, that might be true. We don’t live in that world, in case you hadn’t noticed.
OS
In my opinion, yes he tried to make it easier. He required that the form be accepted by the internet. Today we have to get in notarized and file it with the local school administration.
Are you raising your requirement to millions now, not 0.01%?
“meaning that those with executive experience are going to have more decisions in their past and thus, more mistakes in their past than those with zERO executive experience.”
Good point. People who don’t make mistakes don’t do anything else, either.
Using an executive order was a bad mistake, but understandable as long as he doesn’t EVER repeat it. Cancer and friends tends to make people a bit dogmatic about doing things to try to prevent it happening again.
OS
...many infectious agents, including viruses, bacteria, and parasites, can be transmitted through blood transfusion. Well-recognized viruses include hepatitis A virus (HAV), hepatitis B virus (HBV), hepatitis C virus (HCV), hepatitis D virus (HDV), hepatitis G virus/GB-C virus (HGV/GBV-C), human immunodeficiency virus types 1 and 2 (HIV-1/2), human T-cell lymphotropic virus types I and II (HTLV-I/II), cytomegalovirus (CMV), Epstein-Barr virus (EBV), TT virus (TTV), human herpesvirus type 6 (HHV-6), SEN virus (SEN-V), and human parvovirus (HPV-B19). http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/hcai-iamss/tti-it/risks-eng.php
“I also know Perry will lie straight out to your face.”
So? Do tell! Otherwise it’s just another unsupported statement of opinion...
OS
Enlighten me, then. You had written: And yet, like MB, her rabid supporters (or those rabid anti Perrys) won’t shut up. They will not shut up until we all admit MB should be President for life and that Perry should be executed for his EO on guardisil. Blah blah blah blah.
I wrote that, basically, yours looked like as hot-headed and emotion-driven a response as what you see in "her rabid supporters." You know as well as I do that NO ONE has suggested Bachmann (or any other candidate) should be "President for life and that Perry should be executed for his EO on gardasil." You leveled that empty, weak, inflammatory charge, I can only assume, for the sole purpose of offending, and did so because you're angry. What didn't I comprehend?
Another plus in the Perry column, then. Thank you.
I will enlighten you: I was demonstrating absurdity by being absurd. It’s a technique of communication that can be quite effective and I am quite sure the poster I addressed it to - who is in agreement - caught the joke. Sorry you did not. And clearly, you did not. That is typical of the folks who are being tweaked by the sarcastic absurdity.
It is stunning, really stunning, that you thought I was speaking literally. Sheesh.
“Frankly I like the Commando method...but are you going to go along with me? Or is the cruelty of the whole thing going to give you second thoughts when you start seeing toddlers and grandma’s on the march south.”
I’m likely to start shooting at YOU if you do. NO, I won’t go along with it. Not that I blame you for considering it, but it’s not the sort of thing that Americans are supposed to do. Deport ‘em, sure. I’ve worked with some of those kids, here in Oklahoma, and they arent’ any worse (or better) than the home-grown kids. Send them all back to where ever they came from, and let them apply to return legally. If they want to become Americans, let them. Same deal as the Russians, and Germans, and Canadians, and Indians who immigrate legally.
Certainly some could -- and do -- see it that way as Perry was very clear when he was reelected Governor that he had no intention of running for President. It was one of the reasons Palin was so surprised when Perry declared, because, as she said, he had earlier been so "adamant" about not running for the GOP presidential nomination.
You can surely understand how some would see that as as case of Perry lying straight out. He went back on his word -- he failed to do what he clearly said he'd do, but I'm inclined to give him a pass on it, as Palin did, because he may have had compelling reason to change his mind.
Regardless, Palin would be the much better GOP choice for 2012, and I hope she gets in and wins.
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