Rossi opens 10 KW expression of interest list and sets 10 kW price

Journal of Nuclear Physics ^ | Nov 22 2011 | Andrea Rossi

[Kevmo]

Andrea Rossi November 21st, 2011 at 11:25 PM Dear Felipe From Chile: You are right, we are organizing this. BY THE WAY: WE COLLECT FROM NOW THE NAMES OF ALL THE PERSONS OR ENITITES INTERESTED TO BUY AN E-CAT OF 10 KW. IF WE WILL REACH 10,000 NAMES IN THE LIST, THE PERSONS IN THE WAITING LIST WILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO CONFIRM OR NOT THEIR ORDER AT 400 EURO/THERMAL KW. DO NOT SEND MONEY, WE WILL ACCEPT THE ORDERS ONLY IF WE WILL REACH 10,000 NAMES IN THE WAITING LIST, COMBINING OUR LIST WITH THE WAITING LIST ORGANIZED BY OUR BROTHERS OF HYDROFUSION . WARM REGARDS, ANDREA ROSSI, LEONARDO CORP. (PRESIDENT)

Felipe from Chile November 21st, 2011 at 9:26 PM Mr Rossi, Having followed you for many months I decided to ask you a minor question, my apologies if it has been answered before. Since I am not a business man, I think one of the way to support your endevour is to become a qualified e-cat technician. In this context, Does your company have (or will have in the near future) training program for setup and maintenance of e-cat technology?. I think you will require qualified staff around the world pretty soon.

Sincerely,

Felipe Ochoa

[Johnny B.]

Did you see the news about a fellow named 'Chan' reporting independent verification of a home-built E-cat unit?

Note that he is filling his box with fuel (mineral oil) instead of water. Burning that would provide a considerable amount of chemical energy.

He also says, "Noting that excessive copper and iron surprise showed up in the Swedish analysis I stocked powders of both with varies properties." Rossi claimed (unconvincingly, I think) that those were the result of some unknown nuclear transmutation, so he shouldn't need them. Unless, of course, he wants to add them to his "fuel" and claim that they appeared by nuclear syntheses.

[Liberty1970]

I noted the comment about mineral oil possibly producing heat at that temp. But for ‘days’ as claimed? I’d like to have firewood like that. We’ll see. Hopefully we can get more details on the volume/mass of mineral oil, duration and temperatures and any energy input.

[Johnny B.]

There is an interesting observation, based on Rossi's data, over at the Vortex mailing list. [LINK]

Levi stated that they need 18Kg to run the 100MW E-Cat for six months, which works out to 100g per day.

However, according to Rossi's data, they only loaded 1.7g into the 1MW E-Cat for the October 28th test.

Also, they loaded 1.5g into the small E-Cat for the October 6th test, so apparently the small single E-Cat device used the same amount of Hydrogen as all 107 of them in the cargo container on the 28th.

She also notes that the weight of the Hydrogen cylinder after using it for the October 6th test is only 0.4g more than the weight of the Hydrogen cylinder before using it for the October 28th test.

Unless Rossi has multiple Hydrogen cylinders that just happen to weigh the same to within 0.0029%, it must have been the same cylinder, Unless Rossi has a special Hydrogen cylinder he uses only for public demonstrations, it appears that he didn't use any Hydrogen at all for the 3+ weeks in between the two public demos.

[Johnny B.]

Upon rereading, I realize I wasn't clear on what was being measured. The post is referring to the Hydrogen gas Rossi injects into the E-Cats.

[Red Badger]

I wonder if my local zoning regs will allow an e-Cat next to my AC unit?
They won’t allow me to have chickens...............

[Wonder Warthog]

"I must be missing something - today’s thermoelectric devices (Seebeck generators or thermopiles) run 6 to 10% efficiency - that new nanotech material might get it to 15% - so where is the 30% number from? A gas turbine generator maybe? What would the total cost of an E-Cat and turbine genset be?"

I suspect (but haven't done the calcs myself) that the 30% figure is a theoretical thermal efficiency based on the E-Cats stated upper temperature limit (~400C).

There are plenty of non-aqueous working fluids that can generate electricity even if the max. temps are just above the boiling point of water. Not good efficiency, of course, but if E-Cat and "fuel" are cheap enough.....who will care.....other than some extreme nutcase "environmentalists".

[LurkingSince'98]

hey count...

I never said I was an expert in low temperature low radiation low energy nuclear reactions - I did say and have said consistently:

1) Those who pontificate about Rossi not showing his cards, not offer his work to peer review, or not have experts witness test - know nothing about Trade Secrets and Intellectual Property and are not familiar how businesses, not academics, deal with the same. I stated repeatedly that he would be a bigger fool than you accuse him of being for showing anything to anyone not bound to confidentiality. For you or others to claim otherwise demonstrates to anyone dealing itn IP that you are clueless.

2) to those who say that there is no science behind his work and that it is magic - that you obviously did not look at SPAWARs videos, read Stremmous, Smiley or the host of other who have been doing work which parallels, or corroborates in part Rossi’s very limited disclosures.

3) Rossi has ante’d up with his own money, invested in prototypes, and has prepared a US patent application - he’s got lots of skin in the game - all you critics have ZIP, ZILCH, NADA, NOTHING in the game other than talk and talk is cheap just like uninformed opinions.

4) There are several site like http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/ that has lots of real experts discussing the various aspects of Rossi’s claims such as the much corroborated transmutation of Nickel into Copper with discussion here: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473

5) the funniest thing is you are trying to disprove that which has not been disclosed by Rossi - which makes you a joke.

Lurking’

[count-your-change]

Lurk, Lurk, You send a link to Rossi’s vanity “journal” and suggest I won't be able to understand it:

“Hydrogen/Nickel cold fusion probable mechanism look here: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=338&cpage

Since you probably won’t understand it - you’ll likely dismiss it as magic.”

One need not be an expert in anything to examine claims made against what is known. And it appears that you're saying what you can't understand others can't either.

The reason I pulled that part out is that it is the salient part of the article, the rest being window dressing to it.

So please, save the comments about the videos, papers, blogs and such that others haven't read when if you had read them you probably wouldn’t understand them as you've made obvious.

[Johnny B.]

I stated repeatedly that he would be a bigger fool than you accuse him of being for showing anything to anyone not bound to confidentiality. For you or others to claim otherwise demonstrates to anyone dealing itn IP that you are clueless.

This would make sense except for the fact that Rossi has been holding a dog & pony show every month for a year.

to those who say that there is no science behind his work and that it is magic - that you obviously did not look at SPAWARs videos, read Stremmous, Smiley or the host of other who have been doing work which parallels, or corroborates in part Rossi’s very limited disclosures.

Just because there is legitimate science going on doesn't mean that Rossi is doing science. In fact, he obviously isn't doing science. Science relies on independent replication of results to exclude the possibility of fraud, and Rossi has steadfastly refused to allow that.

Rossi has ante’d up with his own money, invested in prototypes, and has prepared a US patent application

Rossi's patent application is a good example of his misdirection. It's not a patent application for a "cold fusion reactor" or anything of the sort. It's a patent application for an completely ordinary electric water heater. You can't patent something unless you include a complete technical description of it in the application, and Rossi's application contains nothing relevant. So, even if the Patent Office screws up and accepts his patent, it doesn't provide any protection for what he's claiming to try to protect.

All Rossi's patent does is impress people who don't understand patents.

I do question, however, why Rossi suddenly decided that it was OK to start offering to sell his gadget to people all over the world, even though he certainly doesn't have any legal protection for it. What's changed since the end of October?

There are several site like http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/

Ah, Rossi's blog, which pretends to be a scientific journal.

such as the much corroborated transmutation of Nickel into Copper with discussion here: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473

Funny you should mention that. HERE, HERE and HERE is a thread where I took apart that particular argument. The "before" and "after" samples that Rossi provided actually contradict all of Rossi's claims about what is actually going on in his E-Cat.

In the paper you reference, Bettini claims that it's ⁵⁸Nickel that is transmuted into ⁵⁹Copper. But this would leave a lower than normal amount of ⁵⁸Nickel and an excess of ⁵⁹Coppern in the resulting "ash". However, the analysis of the sample showed no such thing.

In other places, Rossi has claimed that he's transmuting ⁶²Nickel and ⁶⁴Nickel into Copper, but there isn't enough of those isotopes (less than 5%) to create the amount of Copper claimed by Rossi (30%). If Rossi were really converting all the ⁶²Nickel and ⁶⁴Nickel into Copper, there wouldn't be any of those particular isotopes left. But the analysis showed the normal amounts of each.

Finally, if Rossi (as he has claimed) "enhance" specific isotopes of an element without massive industrial processes, for pennies a gram and in kilogram quantities (as he must if he can sell a six-month "fuel supply" for $10 - $20), then that is a much more important breakthrough than his E-Cat. The medical uses of such a process would be worth billions. And yet, Rossi is using it to make tea kettles. That's a little bit like Thomas Edison developing the light bulb, and then only using it in Easy-Bake Ovens.

Sorry to "harsh your buzz", but you really don't know what you're talking about.

[Moonman62]

The cartoon of the masked proton has convinced me.

[Johnny B.]

The cartoon of the masked proton has convinced me.

I think Rossi's "secret NATO Colonel" should have worn a mask. It would have made the test for the "secret company" much more exotic and exciting!

[LurkingSince'98]

Hi Johhny,

I never said I knew for certain that Rossi can do what he says he can do.

Regarding SPAWAR, Stremmons and Smiley I stand exactly by what i said.

Regarding trade Secrets and Intellectual Property I stand by statements - you need to read the Act and have it litigated - he is doing exactly what he should be doing including his intentional misdirects.

I have several patents (five) and also license trade secrets and could care less if his patents teach you how to make it.

He needs to show novelty, and give just adequate instruction to one “skilled in the art”. Unless you are skilled in the art of making what he has made and you aren’t - then he has what is called a “basic patent”, which offers the most broad and deep patent protection.

And since it is now “first to file” - he got everyone else covered, since he is first to file.

And to the rest he has misdirected especially his critics by giving them contradictory “evidence”.

I love your “easy bake oven” and Edison light bulb analogy, since it took the inventor of the easy bake oven, Ronald Howes working for Kenner, a along 30 minutes or so to put together his first prototype of Easy Bake; as compared to Edison who worked “In the period from 1878 to 1880 Edison and his associates worked on at least three thousand different theories to develop an efficient incandescent lamp”.

So Rossi is going to produce an Easy Bake instead of the Edison Light Bulb - well good for him - that means we will be seeing the fruits of his labor sooner.

Lurking’

[LurkingSince'98]

well moon that drawing of a masked proton is actually well accepted physics and has been discussed in Journals for five years or more.

[Johnny B.]

And to the rest he has misdirected especially his critics by giving them contradictory “evidence”.

We agree on something. The trouble is, once you accept that Rossi is lying about parts of his system, why should you believe the other parts?

[Moonman62]

that drawing of a masked proton is actually well accepted physics and has been discussed in Journals for five years or more.

Then why weren't any reaction rate calculations done rather than a cartoon?

[Moonman62]

I don’t understand why a “secret company” would agree to a public demonstration of an underperforming (by at least 50%)water heater they are about to buy.

[Johnny B.]

I don’t understand why a “secret company” would agree to a public demonstration of an underperforming (by at least 50%)water heater they are about to buy.

It doesn't make any sense if it really was acceptance testing for a multi-million dollar purchase by a company that wants to keep secret.

It makes perfect sense if it were a publicity stunt by Rossi.

I'm astonished at the number of Rossi fans who are basing their arguments on the "fact" that this anonymous guy who Rossi claimed is an engineer "proves" that Rossi's dog & pony show must have been legit. After all, that anonymous guy is an "expert"!

Talk about a perfect example of "argument by authority" fallacy.

[Lx]

I like how he went from a pre-prototype in January, to a different design which is box shaped (I think those are a better design though) to having a production box that was tested and approved by the folks who test to make sure this thing conforms to the relevant regs.

I've been saying that if this is real, it's going to be a nightmare to get it certified for sale in the U.S, yet he will have that done within twelve months. This also means that he's fixed all the problems from his Oct 1MW demo that forced it to run at half power. Didn't he just get NI to design and provide electronic controls? Don't tell me they can use off the shelf parts, I'm sure they will but it will have to be customized, software written and tested and so on.

Bottom line, no way, even if it does what he says it does, that a production E-cat will be in anyone's home within twenty four months, I've even given him extra time.

Supposedly, this is Defkalion's Hyperion (they're name for E-Cat, production device): It looks awfully like one of Rossi's older type E-Cats so you know this will end up in court. I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm on Rossi's side on this even though we don't really know the deal they had, the falling out and whether Defkalion is even real because if you go to:
Defkalion's announcement. The lab pictures are closely cropped like they're trying to make it look like they have several labs, which they may actually have. We'll see since they're supposed to have an announcement soon.

Of course I still think he's setting the hook, then it's time to real them in. He's gonna need a net to get the number of folks here in the Amen chorus.

Look at the uncritical coverage he gets from Mats Lewan of Nyteknik.se who should know better as he has a real degree, Master of Science in Engineering Physics.

I'm seriously worried for the mental health of people who have so much tied up in this thing being real. Rossi has created something better than an E-Cat, he's created a great Rorschach test.

Just look at how people leap to his defense when they're confronted with things about Rossi, the degree, the factory that was heated by an E-Cat for over two years (keep in mind what the E-Cat pre-prototype looked like in January) that burned down, the TE devices that didn't have the promised appx. 20% efficiency work when tested by a third party and then that factory burned down and the TEs he did send to be tested had an enormous failure rate and typical efficiencies; what, he didn't document his process and have that backed up? The self destruct mechanism, seriously, is this, Mission Impossible?

The apartment complex address for his companies, the PetrolDragon affair, the gold, the way he villain-izes his critics like Steve Krivit, his association with Sterling Allen. The test on the before and after reactants that had no chain of custody, they were just handed them by Rossi to be tested.

Contradiction after contradiction and it's all hand-waived away.

The worse part is I have a perfect use and place for this thing, it would fit perfect in the basement (we have one of the few houses in CA that have one even though it's tiny) and hopefully could keep the propane and propane accessories cost down. I don't know if Rossi is planning on selling a heat exchanger that would go where our house heating systems propane burners are but if so, that would mean I could use an E-Cat as a water heater and a house heater that would be supplemented by the current propane heater.

Then most of our propane usage would be for the cook-top and oven. It would pay for itself in under two years, but alas, not gonna happen.

I swear, Dennis Lee, Joseph Newman and other cranks have to be jealous of Rossi but at least Rossi's tests are better than the road shows of those two which is not much of a complement if you see their websites:

Joseph Newman's very professional site

Dennis Lee selling religion and free energy, seems rather blasphemous. They'll only take money from Christians so they say.

If you watch his video, watch how his assistant slyly moves the magnets back and forth demonstrating a magnetic motor at around 14-15 minutes in the video. His original company was Better World Technologies.

[Lx]

Oops typo:
(they're name for E-Cat, production device):
Should read: (their name for E-Cat, production device):

[aNYCguy]

This blog post misrepresented as a peer-reviewed journal paper (which hasn't even been proofread for typos) is almost entirely nonsense.

"it is conceivable that, for a very short time period (e.g. 10ˆ-18 sec), a series of neutral mini atoms of hydrogen could be formed, in an unstable state"

Oh, that's conceivable, huh? "mini-atoms of hydrogen?" This is total garbage.