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This Just In: Everything Came From Nothing and if You Don’t Agree You Know Nothing
Darwin's God ^ | 01/10/2012 | Cornelius Hunter

Posted on 01/11/2012 8:47:11 PM PST by SeekAndFind

Evolution professor Lawrence Krauss is now saying that the universe, and everything in it, came from nothing. Not only that, but there are probably billions and billions of universes that have spontaneously arisen. Occasionally a universe happens to have all the right properties for life to arise spontaneously within it, and that would be us.

CLICK ABOVE LINK FOR THE VIDEO



Krauss, a theoretical physicist and head of The Origins Project at Arizona State University, is not the first evolutionist to defy the age-old wisdom that something does not come from nothing. World-famous physicist Stephen Hawking popularized the idea in a recent book he co-authored entitled The Grand Design.

Krauss and Hawking use gravitational theory and quantum mechanics to argue that, in fact, such spontaneous creation is all but inevitable. Their narratives appeal to graduate-level physics which most people do not understand, but the basic idea of a strictly naturalistic creation story goes back centuries.

The intellectual necessity of naturalism

In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, with the rise of modern science and the Enlightenment, the urge for strict naturalism was promoted by various Christian traditions. Both in England and on the continent, Christians were refining a range of theological views that required science to describe the world’s origins strictly in terms of natural law. The dozen or so views that emerged fell into two broad categories. One category dealt with the divine attributes while the other dealt with epistemology and man’s knowledge. For short, we may refer to them as the “greater god mandate” and the “intellectual necessity” for naturalism.

In each category a foundational theological view supported various specific arguments for naturalism. One argument from the intellectual necessity view, which became more clear in the eighteenth century, was that special divine action (or primary causation) interfered with scientific progress, or even made science impossible.

As Baden Powell had insisted, all of science depends on the principles of uniformitarianism. Darwin’s confidant J. D. Hooker was more direct. Though he found special creation and evolution at an empirical standoff, neither theory with a clear advantage, he opted for the latter for its “great organizing potential.” It was not that evolutionary theories were “the truest,” he wrote to William H. Harvey in 1859, “but because they do give you room to reason and reflect at present, and hopes for the future, whereas the old stick-in-the-mud doctrines … are all used up. They are so many stops to further inquiry; if they are admitted as truths, why there is an end of the whole matter, and it is no use hoping ever to get any rational explanation of origin or dispersion of species—so I hate them.”

A law-like origins of the world, on the other hand, supported the accrual of knowledge. Darwin enunciated this view when he explained that acceptance of his theory of evolution was less important than the rejection of special divine action:

Whether the naturalist believes in the views given by Lamarck, by Geoffroy St. Hilaire, by the author of the ‘Vestiges,’ by Mr. Wallace or by myself, signifies extremely little in comparison with the admission that species have descended from other species, and have not been created immutable: for he who admits this as a great truth has a wide field open to him for further inquiry.

The rejection of special divine action was equated with scientific progress. Here Darwin extrapolated his metaphysical argument to arrive at the ultimate proof against creation. His main point, that no creator ever would have intended for this world, was now protected against counter arguments because such counter arguments would be unscientific.

Darwin repeatedly used metaphysical arguments against creation to prop up evolution, but now he declared that counter arguments would be out-of-bounds since they were unscientific. Darwin correctly observed that creation and its supporting arguments hinge on one’s concept of God, but he conveniently forgot that arguments against creation equally hinge on one’s concept of God. For Darwin, it was fair game to argue against creation but not for it. Thus, evolution was the correct scientific conclusion. In fact, what good science required was a naturalistic explanation, regardless of what particular explanation was used.

Since Darwin this theological argument has gained strength. For Niles Eldredge, the key responsibility of science—to predict—becomes impossible when a capricious Creator is entertained:

But the Creator obviously could have fashioned each species in any way imaginable. There is no basis for us to make predictions about what we should find when we study animals and plants if we accept the basic creationist position. … the creator could have fashioned each organ system or physiological process (such as digestion) in whatever fashion the Creator pleased.

In his text Paul Moody explains that without strict naturalism one does not have an explanation at all:

it amounts to saying, ‘Things are this way because they are this way.’ Furthermore, it removes the subject from scientific inquiry. One can do no more than speculate as to why the Creator chose to follow one pattern in creating diverse animals rather than to use differing patterns.

Likewise Tim Berra warns that we must not be led astray by the apparent design in biological systems, for it “is not the sudden brainstorm of a creator, but an expression of the operation of impersonal natural laws, of water seeking its level. An appeal to a supernatural explanation is unscientific and unnecessary—and certain to stifle intellectual curiosity and leave important questions unasked and unanswered. ” In fact, “Creationism has no explanatory powers, no application for future investigation, no way to advance knowledge, no way to lead to new discoveries. As far as science is concerned, creationism is a sterile concept.”

Lawrence Krauss and the intellectual necessity

And so it is not surprising to hear Lawrence Krauss, at the 3:14 mark in the above lecture, rehearse the same, centuries-old, intellectual necessity theology in support of his conviction that something, in fact the entire universe, just happened to spontaneously arise from nothing:

I am going to a talk about our modern picture of cosmology and how it has changed our view of the universe—the past and the future, and in some sense how that picture is clearly remarkable. And far more remarkable than the fairly tales that are made up in most religious situations.

But the key point is mystery. That is one of the things that makes science so special I think. It is that scientists love mysteries. They love not knowing. That’s a key part of science. The excitement of learning about the universe. And that again is so different than the sterile aspect of religion where the excitement is apparently knowing everything, although clearly knowing nothing.

There you have it. Without naturalism there is not only no excitement, there is no knowledge. We are left “apparently knowing everything” but “clearly knowing nothing.” Given this truth, then of course, we must have evolution.

Everything came from nothing and if you don’t agree, then you know nothing. Religion drives science, and it matters.


TOPICS: Astronomy; History; Religion; Science
KEYWORDS: creation; evolution; nothing; origins
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To: TalBlack

I agree it’s far fetched to believe all this order was created out of pure chaos over a near infinity of time. However, that isn’t the same thing as saying it’s impossible. If something is possible, no matter how improbable, it could happen on the first try. Let’s say you want to roll ten dice at a time and get nothing but sixes one million times in a row. That’s highly improbable but not impossible. That sequence could happen the first time you start rolling or much, much later, but it would eventually occur given enough time.

I think your point is the probability of the universe springing into existence out of chaos is essentially impossible, because there simply isn’t enough time for it to occur. I agree. I believe it’s impossible. I’m a creationist. Nevertheless, I don’t think it’s possible to prove it’s impossible. I doubt anyone could create the math necessary to prove either way, because we are dealing with too many unknowns. It’s not like my dice problem where I set all the parameters.


41 posted on 01/12/2012 4:43:15 PM PST by CitizenUSA (What's special about bad? Bad is easy. Anyone can do it. Try good instead!)
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To: TalBlack

BTW, I’m only making the point that it’s impossible to prove one way or the other. That’s not a problem for me, because I think it’s far more easy to believe in the Creator than to think all this sprang out of nothing. A Creator not only fits all the other cause and effect observed in the universe, it also seems more probable than this all being created by chance. Either way, you and I cannot prove it.


42 posted on 01/12/2012 5:15:38 PM PST by CitizenUSA (What's special about bad? Bad is easy. Anyone can do it. Try good instead!)
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To: CitizenUSA

Even moreso is considering organic chemistry. Yes, it’s incredibly improbable that you can form DNA from what? Again, this isn’t to say that we can’t synthesize incredible chemical compounds from base materials such as sugars or petroleum, but all chemical syntheses require incredibly strict, step by step control of the chemical reaction to work. Even then, you have to sort out what is the genuine product, and what are the isomers. All I am saying is that yes, some things are just rediculous to try and leave it up to saying a random origin produced it, organic chemistry is only part of it, too.


43 posted on 01/12/2012 5:50:35 PM PST by Morpheus2009
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To: Morpheus2009

Morpheus2009: “Yes, it’s incredibly improbable that you can form DNA from what?”

Just look at the wonderful complexity around us. I don’t know how one would even begin to make the necessary calculations to determine the probability of DNA, much less an entire universe. It would take an amazing amount of faith to believe all of this was created at random. It’s far easier for me to believe a creator made it. This creator, being outside of the universe, could not be adequately described (measured) using universe-based tools.


44 posted on 01/12/2012 6:41:39 PM PST by CitizenUSA (What's special about bad? Bad is easy. Anyone can do it. Try good instead!)
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To: CitizenUSA

Let me put it this way, the complexity of chemistry, gives me great appreciation to the Biblical poetic passage that God created man from the dust. Even today, the creation story goes beyond what one would consider practical from an extremely primitive, and inanimate substance to living matter. It’s an amazing jump in complexity that is perplexing and incredible to look at. If there is ever a science that gives a glimpse at the existence of some greater order and intelligence, chemistry, especially organic, illustrates this fairly well, from my experience.


45 posted on 01/13/2012 9:53:51 AM PST by Morpheus2009
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To: CitizenUSA

“I think your point is the probability of the universe springing into existence out of chaos is essentially impossible, because there simply isn’t enough time for it to occur.”

More the compelexity of complex systems within a larger system. The Mona Lisa was a good example. The depth of the painting is beyond chance since chance “resets” at every failure.


46 posted on 01/13/2012 3:51:08 PM PST by TalBlack ( Evil doesn't have a day job.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I only have one question, why is it that only UNIVERSES can pop into existence from nothing? Why not a horse, dog, my next house?

What ‘rules’ govern NOTHING?

Ok, that was two questions...


47 posted on 01/15/2012 11:22:54 AM PST by thatjoeguy (MAYDAY! MAYDAY! We are so going in ! !)
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