Posted on 03/30/2013 1:29:01 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
The Shroud of Turin continues to spark intense theological debate. While one side believes that the cloth is nothing more than a medieval forgery, the other contends that the x-ray-like image imprinted on it was supernaturally created during Jesus Christ’s resurrection.
In the past, claims that it was the work of a renaissance artist, an optical illusion or, as mentioned, a legitimate, faith-inspired phenomenon have abounded. Without a doubt, the cloth has confounded supporters and detractors, alike, for decades.
Now, “The Mystery of the Shroud,” a book that examines new chemical and mechanical tests that were more recently conducted on the shroud, seems to side with the latter assessment. Journalist Saverio Gaeta and Giulio Fanti of Italy’s University of Padua (professor of mechanical and thermal measurement) collaborated on the new book that maintains that the Shroud of Turin dates back to the 1st century and not to a later time period as some have contended.
As TheBlaze previously reported, the shroud features an image of a bearded man (i.e. Jesus) whose body appears to have wounds from nails in his hands and feet — the same locations that some believe were affected when Christ was nailed to the cross....
(Excerpt) Read more at theblaze.com ...
:) Jesus is who he said he is.
Where are these Semitic representations in American churches? Calling me ignorant when you cannot show me an example paints a poor show of logic on your part.
Why do you think American churches in unison portray Jesus as European?
What straws are you talking about, anyway?
If you have actual substance, let's see it.
Cheers!
Because they stupidly follow a portrait painted in the 1900s by Warber Salman and William Holman Hunt and the other Pre-Raphaelites in the 1800s who turned Jesus into a white Northern European and pay no attention to thousands of years of icons.
Get out into the world some day.
Thanks for the ping!
Troll hunter? Are you the fat guy in Hawaii?
Most understand that when one makes an assertion it is up to them to prove it. Clearly not everyone understands this.
In any case, as I have already stated, religious beliefs don’t need verifiable proof. They are dependent on faith. Those seeking proof are not true believers.
Good hunting. You might try looking under bridges.
And with the above comes the evidence that your own comments on this thread are primarily rude insult & personal attacks (if any haven't noticed) which is a form of trollish behavior in and of it's self.
Cheers! Up Yours!
Almost the same reason, for the season.
Nah, neither fat nor in Hawaii.
Most understand that when one makes an assertion it is up to them to prove it. Clearly not everyone understands this.
I understand it well...but those who attack the authenticity of the Shroud based on cut-and-paste from "skeptical" sites in defiance of their own rules for forensic debate, and when the contentions on the skeptical sites have been refuted many times by multiple independent sources...I tend to doubt the good faith of the cut-and-paste crowd.
In any case, as I have already stated, religious beliefs don’t need verifiable proof. They are dependent on faith. Those seeking proof are not true believers.
Or there are those who haven't thought about it much, but have heard of the Shroud, and go, "Hey, cool."
OTOH, you might want to check out John 14:11.
Good hunting. You might try looking under bridges.
That doesn't make any sense. What are you trying to say?
Cheers!
I excuse you for your ignorance, both of the Shroud and of my history on FR.
Try for example this thread or this post.
Cheers!
What I did see is that much of your own argument depended greatly on ad hominem itself, with a little worshipfulness of "peer review" thrown in for good measure. Meanwhile, it's like depending upon reports of reports, which too isn't all that great of a scientific method, but might get one in the neighborhood of where to further look.
Dishing out "troll" accusation to those who on this forum are unconvinced, just for being unconvinced is uncalled for, and is beneath you... you used to be otherwise usually polite, so more's the pity. It's pretty obvious you have much personally invested here, in pride and opinion. I'd much prefer to rely upon those more disinterested, if such could be found.
Speaking of pitys, it's too bad the best information, along with any best possible challenges and questions, isn't assembled all in one place. Somebody chimes in with this same sort of idea (or whine) every year, so it's not an original thought on my own part.
Clumps of shroud info can be found here and there, but often enough just raise questions answered elsewhere, and not always answered all that well or completely when they are. Dare to ask some to think...get abused for one's troubles.
Where's the fun in that, unless one just hangs around seeing how many people one can get away with "besting"? Troll inspectors turn into trolls themselves, as they troll for a hobby, hunting for trolls. Get it?
Where do trolls live?
Where do trolls live?
Next to their house is a little sign which says, "Stop. Pay Troll."
Cheers!
how about an IOU? here, have a couple, I've got plenty more. Always print up extra before leaving the house.
Happy to see that you figured it out.
You did not. But almost all who bring up the look of Semites do bring up stature, . . they expect them to be short and slight of build. You already assumed everyone in 1st Century Jerusalem would look the same as a modern minority of Jews. I headed that stature expectation argument off at the pass.
You know, Blue, we get damned tired of responding to the same tired, outdated, refuted, wrong, and just plain repetitious lies not to mention the insults posted by trolls over and over again on Shroud threads. It gets old. Your complaint is just one more whine. Same old stuff, same old whine.
As to your statement that "it's too bad the best information, along with possible challenges and questions, isn't assembled all in one place" is totally wrong and just shows you haven't bothered to even do cursory investigation of the issue before spouting off and flaming participants such as grey_whiskers. I assure you he is not a troll.
I've posted links to two comprehensive sites. . . repeatedly. . . for each and every one of these trolls on every Shroud thread on Freerepublic. One of the sites I link to is the repository of every scientific and scholarly article on the Shroud. The other is a more accessible and readable and also links to the articles and translates the science for those who may have trouble understanding it, and puts the scholarship in context.
Both sites ignore the twaddle from the non-scientists and non-scientists who inhabit the majority of the skeptic sites who seem to have no concept of peer-review or what it means to be accepted for publication in a scientific journal, or just how difficult that is. You, yourself, seem to think that is meaningless. Grey_whiskers, the Freeper you are attacking, is a scientist. . . and DOES know what it means. None of the trolls here are. . . or even have a clue. This thread is a prime example as one Freeper keeps insisting that falsified C-14 data still has validity, despite irrefutable proof the sample tested was compromised. No legitimate scientist would argue that. He would recognize garbage in equals garbage out.
One sure sign of Trollish behavior is the demand for proofs, but then NEVER bothering to read them when presented, or even visit the links to the sites holding the proofs. . . then claiming the link is not authoritative, when it is a peer-reviewed scientific journal reporting work in the field of its expertise.
The trolls always demand that we do THEIR research for them. . . and that we must give their "experts," invariably non-scientists, published only in outdated skeptical journals which are never peer reviewed, the same credibility as the latest peer-reviewed published science. The skeptical articles which ALWAYS cite a handful of already falsified claims, never cite the latest research, or even the earlier research accurately, and use ad hominems attacks in describing any Shroud researchers who actually do work on the Shroud as "Psuedo-scientists" because they are researching the Shroud, which, according to the skeptics is obviously a fraud. Science and scholarship simply don't work like that.
Yes, you are dead on the money. I posed a couple of legitimate skeptical questions and received hysterical, shrieking ad hominem attacks for my trouble. It’s clear that grey et al. not only have no clue how science works, but don’t care to know.
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