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Illegal Guns Down Under, a Chilling Lesson for the U.S.A.
Gun Watch ^ | 30 November, 2013 | Dean Weingarten

Posted on 11/29/2013 7:38:09 PM PST by marktwain


Results of an intrusive national registration scheme

These guns and air rifles are being haled as a find of a massive cache of private guns in Moonford, Australia, a tiny farming community with virtually no crime.  That is, there was no crime there before the National Australian government created it with the intrusive "gun control" law they passed, taking advantage of the act of a madman and the emotional response pushed by their national media.  All guns must be registered.  All guns must be locked up.  All guns are subject to inspection at virtually any time.  When I considered a trip to Australia a few years ago, I learned that even spear guns and blowguns are subject to restrictions.   It is chilling confirmation that gun registration is gun confiscation.

The "crime" here would not be any crime at all in the vast majority of the United States, and would not have been a crime in much of Australia before 1996.  Notice that in the picture the "illegal guns" include pellet guns, single shot .22 rifles, antique shotguns, and numerous bolt action hunting rifles.   A few of the firearms that were found might be restricted in the United States. 

The three men charged, a 69 year old father and two sons, aged 46 and 42, were licensed to have 71 firearms, and all those firearms are included in the 328 gun seizure.   Because they are licensed to have guns, it is clear that they are not career criminals.  It is not as if they can shoot more than maybe two guns at once.  But because the guns *are not registered* they are all subject to being confiscated.  Australia has done what the American anti-freedom advocates want: to make any possession of any gun not registered to the state a crime.   All the guns in the country are then subject to seizure by the state at any time the state either 1)finds them (for those not registered) or 2)desires to take them (those already registered).   The seizure of the guns included 4.2 tons of ammunition.   Total value is likely to be hundreds of thousands of dollars.  I wonder if  Australian law will include confiscating the 2,000 acre farm.

There is no credible evidence that the strict gun control laws in Australia have decreased crime or suicides.  For every study that claims they have, there is at least as credible of a study to show they have not.  What is clear is the Prime Minister, John Howard, hated people having access to firearms, and that he would do anything to restrict and ban them.  From Wikipedia:

Until 1996, the federal government had little role in firearms law. Following the Port Arthur massacre, the Howard Government (1996–2007), with strong media and public support, introduced uniform gun laws with the cooperation of all the states, brought about through threats to Commonwealth funding arrangements (bold added). The then Prime Minister John Howard frequently referred to the USA to explain his opposition to civilian firearms ownership and use in Australia, stating that he did not want Australia to go "down the American path".[53][54][55] In one interview on Sydney radio station 2GB he said, "We will find any means we can to further restrict them because I hate guns... ordinary citizens should not have weapons. We do not want the American disease imported into Australia."
 It is notable that the Federal Government used financial extortion to obtain the cooperation of the states.  It is remarkably similar to what we have seen in the United States.   Australia should serve as an object lesson to Americans.   Their media and government so despised guns in private hands that they were quite willing to use "all means" to bring about the nationalization of the gun laws Australia now suffers under.   The vast majority of Australians live in coastal cities and know only what they are told by the media about guns.
Their ignorance has cost their country cousins much time, treasure, and police intrusion into their lives.

Fortunately, the United States can learn from Australia's experience.  We have far more activists who have developed strong networks to oppose these laws ill considered laws.  Our urban populations are learning the truth about citizen disarmament laws.  Australia's developing network of activists was simply overwhelmed by the combined media and government forces that conspired against them.

©2013 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Link to Gun Watch


TOPICS: Government; History; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: au; banglist; guncontrol; registration
Think about these farmers, minding their own business, when the Australian national government and their media decide to upend their world, 17 years ago. They did not register all of their guns. Some have said that they were storing some of the guns for neighbors and freinds. Who knows how much they will now have to suffer because of the ignorance of their urban cousins and the malevolence of their media and government.
1 posted on 11/29/2013 7:38:10 PM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Some of those are nice pieces. One looks like a Model 1887 lever action shotgun!


2 posted on 11/29/2013 7:43:25 PM PST by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it getting so hot?)
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To: marktwain

Now you know how to tell when it’s time to bring a baseball bat to the Senate.


3 posted on 11/29/2013 7:44:12 PM PST by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
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To: marktwain

I’m amazed at how quickly Australia slipped down in national image, from this sudden anti-gun switch they did in the 1990s or whenever.

Australia went from wild, sexy and cool, to a shell of it’s old image, in no time.

Now they seem beaten and pathetic, tamed.


4 posted on 11/29/2013 7:46:12 PM PST by ansel12 ( Ben Bradlee-JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: ansel12

When your rights are not written down - anyone can take them away.

When your rights are written down, at least it gives you the authority to fight back when they try to take your rights.


5 posted on 11/29/2013 7:51:55 PM PST by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: marktwain

The momentum and votes swung just at the right time to disenfranchise rural Australia. Fortunately, for now, the US is not quite so easily dismembered.

We are not far from it, though.

We must be ever vigilant and vocal.


6 posted on 11/29/2013 7:57:20 PM PST by One Name (Ultimately, the TRUTH is a razor's edge and no man can sit astride it.)
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To: 2banana
When your rights are not written down - anyone can take them away. When your rights are written down, at least it gives you the authority to fight back when they try to take your rights.

-----


7 posted on 11/29/2013 7:58:27 PM PST by Yaelle
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To: marktwain

Oh nose! Some ranchers in the outback have some Fudd guns. Why don’t they just leave these fellas alone?


8 posted on 11/29/2013 8:07:20 PM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Rededicaton to the Principles of the U.S. Constitution...)
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To: ansel12

While there is some variation state to state, gun laws generally in Australia would make an American cringe.

-One must apply for a license to be a shooter and gun owner.

-One must submit an application (PTA) to the state police each and every time they wish to purchase a firearm, new or used, retail or private sale.

-One must demonstrate the ability to safely store a firearm and that must be signed off by the state police.

-One’s firearm storage is subject to random inspection by the state police who will visit your home and inspect your storage set-up.

-One is subject to the licensing and classification system the various Australian states have devised.

-One may only legally possess a single-shot, bolt-action or single/double barreled shotgun under the basic license (Cat A/B.) General hunting, target shooting, etc.

-One may only legally possess a semi-auto rimfire or pump action shotgun under a Cat C License. Need here is vague to me.

-One may only legally possess a semi-auto centerfire or shotgun under a Cat D License. Cat D licensees must be dealers, collectors, farmers/ranchers, or, professional hunters who can demonstrate that they receive a certain percentage of their yearly income from contract hunting to the Aussie government.

-One may only legally possess a Cat H handgun license if they belong to a handgun shooting club/range and also participate in a minimum number of competition shoots per year (one per quarter I believe.)

So, if you want to own a firearm in Oz the government will want to know what it is, the serial, how it’s being stored and where, what you’re using it for and when, and, who’s using it at any given time. If you can’t provide that info then you are highly likely to lose your license, have any firearms you own seized with no compensation, and, will have to wait many years before you can reapply for a license or permit to purchase again.

Nice little police state they have there.


9 posted on 11/29/2013 8:10:54 PM PST by FAA
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To: 3Fingas

Oh nose! Some ranchers in the outback have some Fudd guns. Why don’t they just leave these fellas alone?

Answer: because they are from the government, and can do whatever the heck they want to...........


10 posted on 11/29/2013 8:11:31 PM PST by basil (2ASisters.org)
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To: marktwain

Bump


11 posted on 11/29/2013 8:22:27 PM PST by Jet Jaguar
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To: marktwain

Look at the 2nd pic posted; those are the interesting firearms:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3096453/posts?page=32#32


12 posted on 11/29/2013 8:28:05 PM PST by carriage_hill (Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading.)
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To: carriage_hill

Interesting for gun-controlled Australia, but I have more interesting truck guns than those.

Anyhow, aside from violating Australian gun ownership laws, did the police have any evidence that the guns were used in the commission of a crime or that any guns were sold to criminals? If not, the raid was just a demonstration of official power, nothing more.


13 posted on 11/29/2013 8:36:11 PM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Rededicaton to the Principles of the U.S. Constitution...)
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To: 3Fingas

In the “scary” second picture of “semi autos” one sees.......two tacti-cooled bolt action rifles and a pump action Remington 7615. I can’t make out the other two.

” Anyhow, aside from violating Australian gun ownership laws, did the police have any evidence that the guns were used in the commission of a crime or that any guns were sold to criminals? If not, the raid was just a demonstration of official power, nothing more.”

The simple act of possessing them without registration is major violation of state law. Used in crime? Hell, simply having them is equitable to multiple felonies here.


14 posted on 11/29/2013 8:47:15 PM PST by FAA
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To: Little Ray

soon to come to this land—if Obama and the Democrats have their way.


15 posted on 11/29/2013 9:37:21 PM PST by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade

soon to come to this land—if Obama and the Democrats have their way.

If the gubermint agents come for our guns against the second amendment we can detain them as eneimies of the state, right?


16 posted on 11/29/2013 10:05:56 PM PST by WilliamRobert (Rafael Cruz is an American hero)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade

Why do Aussies oil their lawns? So the guns won’t rust.


17 posted on 11/29/2013 10:11:03 PM PST by aviator (Armored Pest Control)
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To: marktwain

Meh, I don’t care what the law is one way or the other.


18 posted on 11/29/2013 10:26:22 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: FAA

Like you said. In this case, just having them is a crime. Purty durn sad.


19 posted on 11/29/2013 10:40:33 PM PST by rktman (Under my plan(scheme), the price of EVERYTHING will necessarily skyrocket! Period.)
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To: ansel12

Careful sunshine appearances can be deceiving LOL!

There has been no news of how the cops found out about these guys but I suspect as so many of their weapons were unregistered and Queensland is currently cracking down on bikie crime that they may have been selling guns and ammo to what amounts to our organised crime syndicates here in Aus. If that is the case I have no sympathy for them. It really is not that hard to register and possess a weapon - only legal ones though - otherwise ya better hide ‘em good!

Somebody has put them to the Police I would imagine in exchange for leniency on a larger crime!

Mel


20 posted on 11/29/2013 11:35:13 PM PST by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: G Larry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohixJ5hdDR0


21 posted on 11/30/2013 3:22:09 AM PST by ronnie raygun
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To: melsec

“Somebody has put them to the Police I would imagine in exchange for leniency on a larger crime!”

If they were storing guns for neighbors, then it is likely that quite a few knew that they had unregistered guns. The more people that know, the more likely that someone is to talk.


22 posted on 11/30/2013 4:12:09 AM PST by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: marktwain

“The more people that know, the more likely that someone is to talk.”

That’s why in today’s era of un-American lunacy I don’t think it’s a good idea to tell anyone what kinds of guns we have, this includes relatives, neighbors and friends. Keep a couple out in plain view for hunting or self defense, hide the rest. A common storage point such as a gun safe makes it easier to find all in one cache.

I am I paranoid? Yes.


23 posted on 11/30/2013 4:27:07 AM PST by redfreedom (All it takes for evil to win is for good people to do nothing - that's how the left took over.)
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To: marktwain

Registration is about shifting burden of proof, just as any admition to authority ends up being used against the admiter. Before they had to prove you had guns in order to ask you anything. It is why NSA type spying is also illegal. Because it shifts the burden of proving good motive.

Liberals play that game by saying guns are evil.

Oh. And let us not forget that before government can confiscate those guns, most might end up being sold to criminals on the black market and reported stolen.


24 posted on 11/30/2013 4:35:35 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: melsec

I am sorry, but between surrendering guns to a criminal inquisitive government shifting burden of job proof on the citizen and selling them to criminals, most people cannot be blamed for selling them thus.

This is why gun control backfires.


25 posted on 11/30/2013 4:40:51 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: 3Fingas

From the article, it sounds like someone ratted them out that the guns were being “modified” against the laws, and that all would be checked against crimes in a database somehow. $5 says they’ll try to pin some crime(s) on those 3 guys, for either having modified weapons, or some other crimes. You can bet that they’ll be made an example of, for public consumption.


26 posted on 11/30/2013 5:26:06 AM PST by carriage_hill (Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading.)
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To: marktwain

BATF getting wood looking at the size of the Aussies Table.


27 posted on 11/30/2013 5:37:32 AM PST by hadaclueonce (Because Brawndo's got electrolytes. Because Ethanol has Big Corn Lobby)
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To: redfreedom

I have a gun safe, but only a fraction of my guns are stored within it for that very reason.


28 posted on 11/30/2013 5:54:14 AM PST by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: FAA

Well, I understand Australian gun laws. I just disagree with them. Since I don’t have to live there and conform to their laws, I can label those laws for what they are: oppressive.

Anyhow, if these Australian citizens break their country’s laws, they will have to pay the price when caught. I know gun-grabbers are doing everything they can to bring these type of gun-control laws here, but I am thankful that they have largely failed in their attempts to do so.


29 posted on 11/30/2013 1:37:38 PM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Rededicaton to the Principles of the U.S. Constitution...)
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To: marktwain

A likely story I would say but yes the more people know the less likely anything can be kept a secret.

Mel


30 posted on 11/30/2013 11:37:11 PM PST by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: lavaroise

There is no guarantee of the right to hold weapons in our constitution as there is in yours. So if “The People” i.e. the voting joe schmoe thinks it is reasonable and they are happy that each gun held should be registered then I see that as the height of Democracy - I know plenty of gun owners and they do not find it burdensome.

The only part of the Law I find draconian is the right of the Police to come and see how your guns are stored without warrant - I don’t think owning a weapon should give them that right - I have a knife block that I store my kitchen knives in and they can’t come in and check that - I think that part of the law should be challenged.

It is not so hard to sell a gun off either - a form and some ID to show how and to whom it was disposed - I have to do the same when I sell my car.


31 posted on 11/30/2013 11:46:57 PM PST by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: melsec

Alright I oversimplified it takes 28 days to transfer one as a check of license is needed.


32 posted on 12/01/2013 12:14:47 AM PST by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: melsec

The rule of thumb is that a K9 unit coming to sniff around have their dogs muzzled while the owner’s dogs can freely eat their food. Thus this places a controled jurisdiction of the police and the owner has his rights and properties respected.

Sadly nowadays they have the guns and we have to make precautions or have no gun when they come knocking. Under the Queen’s colony the enlisted like life given her protecting the business is understandable. Such quartering would be acceptable. However if independent or settling independently, new jurisdictions should be respected. This was not applied in places like Rhodesia and the rule on the British was delegated to alienating powers that turned it into Zimbabwe. The guard was changed.

Places like Australia need not go from one master under the Queen to another under the guise of strange legislations denying the right of self settlement or divorce from said links and services to said powers. When England surrendered Honk Kong to mainland China, a sort of domino precedent effect was established. How can there be free trade without recognition of sovereignty? The isolationists are those importing isolationists, not those protecting themselves from outfits like Islam or the communists who refuse to reciprocate the right and recognition to unique sovereignty.


33 posted on 12/01/2013 4:27:49 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: lavaroise

You are correct - our personal property rights have definatley been impinged upon under this law. The every man’s castle concept (i.e. the right to defend oneself and property) which has seemed to make a comeback here over the last decade or so has not been taken into account under this law. It needs to be challenged but doing so through the High Court is a long and expensive exercise. While the gun lobby sought to have all of the legislation thrown out they should have concentrated on the parts that were unconstitutional.

Mel


34 posted on 12/01/2013 2:06:43 PM PST by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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