Skip to comments.Who knows about trading penny stocks? A plea for help.
Posted on 01/12/2014 2:03:05 PM PST by righttackle44
Folks, I am a poor boy who would like to be helped and educated by someone who knows what they're doing--what they're talking about.
I have been reading some, but there are a lot of basic things I don't yet understand. How much money would I need to start the whole shebang? Can you use online stock sites to purchase shares, or do you have to go through a broker? You get the picture. My friend said that me thinking about penny stock trading is like trusting Lou Costello or Jerry Lewis to assemble an H-bomb.
I'm looking for advice, but I'm also looking for advice about books, trustworthy websites, trustworthy teachers--like Jerry Lewis would need if he were to receive a pile of H-bomb components on his front steps--keeping in mind that I am a poor boy. I don't money for the study kits our courses or Miami Beach seminars. I know most of you understand this.
In advance, I would like to thank you for your help and assistance. You guys are the only ones I would think about asking for help about this.
On rare occasion, you might find a gem of a startup, but I wouldn't bet more than a hundred bucks on my chances.
A penny saved is a penny earned?
A penny for your thoughts?
” Government is the people’s business and every man, woman and child becomes a shareholder with the first penny of tax paid.
Ronald Reagan quotes
Trading penny stocks is like penny slots in vegas you have to put lots of pennies in play to make any money out of it
My boss has done a great job investing in WMIH, the holding company that has the ‘assets’ left over from the WaMU takeover, essentially a massive tax write off for other companies to take advantage of, as they have billions in tax credits that could offset profits. Purchased a large amount for pennies a share, and it is now at $2.70 a share.
But he made the investment knowing what ‘assets’ the company had, and had been atop the company since the day he invested to ensure that those assets didn't all go wandering off into the sunset in someone’s pocket.
Gamble or use knowledge - Honestly, I think the second choice is the only good course to guarantee profitable return on investment.
Sure people can make money from penny stocks- Sirius was 12 cents 5 years ago and trades for about 3.60 now.
But the problems with most of these issues is their lack of liquidity and a market, as well as their generally shaky financial standing.
Its extremely risky, and you should be as prepared to lose any money you invest on it as you would be on money invested in a “hard eight” at your local craps game.
A big return is certainly possible, but its more likely you’ll lose.
Your friend is correct. They are extremely risky, and usually only serve to burn up investor's money. If you really, really wanted to gamble, (and yes, you are), you can look at the marijuana stocks. These are all the rage right now since Colorado and Washington legalized pot, and may go up as other states legalize.
It would be good training for those who have never taken the plunge of investing before.
I do know several people who invest and it takes about ten years before you start to get good at it, so I wouldn’t do much more in the beginning than put your money in safe stocks, ones that are not likely going to go bankrupt soon.
However to learn, you have to play the game and that means putting real money where you will likely lose it all. However, that money is the price you pay to learn the rules. Almost everybody here has lost a fair bit of money learning how to invest.
Penny stocks don’t normally survive; they are on a fire sale for good reason.
Recommend picking ten penny stocks and track them for a year, keeping track of how much money you would have lost.
I’ve traded pennies, options, commodities, and stocks for over 40 years.
Stick with established stocks.
The others are all losers.
So true. For every penny stock that goes up over a dollar or more, 10 to 20 go down to nothing. Google pink sheets. Penny stocks do not meet criteria to be listed on an exchange and therefore don’t get institutional money (mutual funds) to trade them. Being thinly traded they’re like gambling.
Start at Motley Fool. Buy stocks of companies that makemoney.
Is this a bit like using Kickstarter to fund your trip to the Yukon to prospect for gold? or would you sell stock, meaning you would share the profits should you strike gold?
Don’t do it. Go to the Horse track or Jai Lai where you have a chance. At least you can drink and have a good time while losing your money. :-)
Beware of the Pump N Dump too
That's the way it's supposed to work in theory. You still need a brokerage of some kind to buy these stocks, and you probably might get a discount in you buy in round lots, or higher quantities of shares. You can use an online broker for better discounts. These are pure growth stocks; you won't get dividends from these stocks. It may be more difficult to find a lot of information about your specific stock, other than standard SEC filings.
Because of their speculative nature, they are considered much higher risk. They might be ideal to fill out the last 5% of your overall portfolio, but I would not have a larger portion invested, and I would certainly not risk a sizeable portion of money I was counting on;e.g., retirement funds, college funds, etc.
Because there may or may not be buyers for all stocks, it might be more difficult to dump your shares if the market goes south. Good luck!
Not a good idea. It’s very easy to get set up to do it, at $7 per trade, but odds are you will lose a lot of money.
Better to save up and get into a small business.
While you’re saving, take the first two college Accounting courses.
In order to invest, every person needs to understand the financial aspect of business.
You need to understand how transactions flow into a Profit & Loss Statement, and an accounting Close to produce a Balance Sheet.
Also, you begin researching what type of business you’d like to be in.
And look for suitable partners, advisors, mentors, etc.
You’ll start feeling more comfortable as you get more ready to operate a business.
You can work for someone else in their small business and receive some mentoring and experience that way.
Every year a business makes a net profit, it’s value (the value of your shares in the company) goes up.
That’s like owning a stock that never goes down in price.
Stocks traded on exchanges, however, go up AND DOWN based on the perceived value of the company by the market and general market conditions !
If you are not a sophisticated investor, the stock market is a very bad place to invest.
How many people in the past few years joked that their “401k was now a 201k” - meaning the value of their mutual funds, etc., had gotten close to HALF it’s value. Though they’ve bounced back to one extent or another, it is very difficult for the small investor to RECAPTURE LOSSES.
You could get professional advice, but you’ll find it very expensive with a tiny portfolio as a percentage of invested assets, and there still is no guarantee you won’t lose money.
Also, IMHO, not a particularly good time to be in publicly-traded stocks.
There’s a movie called Boiler Room. WATCH IT.
I have fully investigated this matter and have compiled a thorough report that covers everything you would want to know about penny stocks. The report can be yours for the low, low price of $149. But wait, there’s more! If you order today, I’ll include the ground-breaking report THEY don’t want you to know about. It’s titled “A Fool And His Money”. Hurry, call now. Operators are standing by.
Here’s an ideal investment strategy said (I’ve heard from reliable source) to work wonders: Nigerian penny stock shares.
There are ways of making money in the stock market but it takes STUDY and a willingness to learn from your mistakes! Don't put down money you need to live on, you WILL LOSE IT! Look for cheap stocks that are widely traded, they do exist! Many stocks trade cyclically, buy them at a low point, have a stop-loss set, know where you will take a profit and repeat. Start small, train yourself and let it build. RIDE OUT THE BAD TIMES, they will happen but if you bury your money you will forget where it is or someone else will dig it up!
I trade some penny stocks on my E*Trade account, online, with no issues.
I use a lot of stop loss and limit orders, too. They handle them quite well, IMO.
As far as starting capital? Whatever you are willing to lose.
If your trades cost $10, you need to capitalize high enough to take positions that will let you cover both ends of the transaction, plus your acceptable margin of gain or loss.
Keep in mind that most penny stock movements are a result of some sort of pump and dump activity, a press release to penny stock newsletters and trading groups, etc. Very few have been actually attributable to sound business practices, or business development activities, in my experience. Finding those good ones is as much art as science.
There are hundreds of penny stock and microcap newsletters out there, and every one of them is a success (if you believe their hype). Pick a few and follow them for a couple of weeks, using spreadsheets to track their recommendations, and your trading rules (it’s easier to lose money on a spreadsheet than on your trading account. You’ll find a few that offer some manner of good advice for your situation.
And, above all....CAVEAT EMPTOR!
Penny stocks mostly are pump and dump junk. Be careful: there be monsters here.
Go see The Wolf of Wall Street - frequently hard to stomach but informative about that business.
I’ve been in it a bit more than ten years. Still not making much money but losing a lot less than I used to.
Half the battle is gaining Knowledge, the other half is learning how to control the emotions. Im going to keep at it until I either kick the bucket or make money one or the other.
Was a licensed broker for Blindum and Robbum back in the ‘80s. You CAN make money, but you have be on the broker’s good side. When a company was taken public, it came out of the shut at 9am. The IPO was say, 5 cents. If your broker liked you, he would “allot” you so many shares at that price. BUT around 1PM, typically he would call back and tell you to sell at about 8 or 9 cents. If you were smart, you did what he told you. If you thought you were going to be clever and hang in and MAKE MILLIONS when it went to dollar, you would be called an idiot.
Typically the broker had other “bag holders” to whom he would sell out the stock.
In about 3 or 4 days the stock would slide back to either the IPO price or even lower.
By the end of the month, your certificates were fancy looking toilet paper.
Blinder Robinson and that guy Brennen or Brenner or something from First Jersey were the kings of that junk.
But certain people DID make money. And certain people ended up in the joint too.
1) Always do your own research.
2) Never buy or sell on a tip, no matter who it comes from.(See rule 1)
3) Buy only well run, financially sound companies you would be proud to own. 4) Buy at a discount from fair market value.
In my experience, if you follow those four rules, you will not buy penny stocks.
I know a lot about penny stocks. The key is to get in on the pump and get out by the dump.
Twitter has brought a whole new outlet for the game.
Weed stocks are in play but Timothy Sykes and his merry band of followers shorted them...and if you look last week..you can see when they dumped
If you want to learn the game watch Tweets on Pot stocks and watch the ebb and flow of price
Pay heed to this clip from Leo’s new movie.
If you get it..you will begin to learn how to trade the scams
Can I give you some great advice? If you don’t know what you are doing, don’t invest in them. It’s not a good idea. Or: put aside a small amount you can afford to lose and play with that. And draw the line at that.
You are in for a wild ride with the pennies. They are typically listed OTC (over-the-counter) and not traded on exchanges (such as NYSE, for example). SEC pattern day trading rules will still apply through your broker so you will need to have a minimum of $20K in your brokerage account (online brokers are fine) if you are planning on day trading or short-term swing trading and making more than 4 round trip trades within 5 business days.
The problem with pennies is that they are very thinly traded. In markets there must be a buyer for every seller and vice versa. You may not find a buyer for your shares at the price you wish to sell which means you could be stuck with a zillion shares that no one wants to buy. Market makers facilitate the process with exchange traded equities but the bid/ask spread on pennies could be more than the unrealized gain your account is showing. It is definitely an ever-present danger when trading illiquid securities.
If you are a trading novice you may wish to try your hand swing trading exchange-traded equities for a while through any of the discount online brokers (TD Ameritrade, for example) just to get your feet wet while you learn what you are doing. They are at least stable relative to pennies. I would say $50K is the minimum to actually day trade exchange-traded funds. Even that is very much on the low side.
If you have very limited capital you can trade the spot forex market to again, get a feel for how markets work (though trading currency pairs is a very different animal from stocks). Minimum deposits are usually 50 bucks with fx brokers. You will need $500 to actually make real trades and keep your stops realistic and still have enough to meet margin requirements.
Pennies are probably the riskiest of all securities to trade (followed by fx). They are simply unpredictable IMHO.
Winning the Loser's Game by Charles Ellis
Stocks for the Long Run by Jeremy J. Siegel
Do not buy penny stocks unless you are prepared to lose every penny of your investment! Your chances of ever making a dime are slim and you’ll most likely lose all of your investment.
To add to what you said, the market makers themselves are often on the make so the market, in addition to being illiquid, is rigged with the express purpose of fleecing hapless retail investors to enrich the insiders.
STAY FAR, FAR AWAY.
The penny stock market is made up of two kinds of players - crooks and suckers. Which are you?
I should point out that, when people say stay away from penny stocks, they are telling you to keep the money you can’t afford to lose out, not the money you can afford to play with and you should have some money that you can have fun with and not worry about whether you lose it or not. It’s all part of the fun of investing to be able to hit that one stock where you made ten or twenty times what you invested in it and when you have lost everything you put into it.
I played for a while. You better learn to read charts! You also better learn NOT to believe anything you read on the chat boards. People will brag about the potential of a stock and get chumps to buy in raising the price as interest gains. These same pumpers then dump into the rise and set up the fall...They (pumpers) are in all the penny stocks.
Your better off keeping your money in your sock drawer....
Two things I can tell you. First, whatever you put in, be sure it is an amount you can afford to totally lose. Second, don’t buy from brokers who are market makers for a particular stock. Their job is basically to push as many shares (or warrants or options) as they can for a particular issue on the public to bring in money for that company. Do you own research and buy from a broker who has no interest in the stock. If you get an unsolicited call from a dealer offering a hot deal in an “up and coming” company, don’t buy it, you’ll lose 99% of the time.
Penny stocks? what’s not to love? You invest a few pennies and you could make millions! I know all about it.
Are you playing Weed stocks?
If you are asking questions about trading penny stocks on a politics internet discussion board then you have no business trading penny stocks.
Spend less than you make.
For retirement make use of 401k/IRA accounts as much as possible.
Diversify between stocks and bonds.
Diversify between domestic and foreign for stocks.
Use index funds.
Stay the course.
I should point out that, when people say stay away from penny stocks, they are telling you to keep the money you cant afford to lose out, not the money you can afford to play with and you should have some money that you can have fun with and not worry about whether you lose it or not. Its all part of the fun of investing to be able to hit that one stock where you made ten or twenty times what you invested in it and when you have lost everything you put into it.
I completely agree. If the OP is looking for a fun little hobby then he can jump in with money set aside specifically for fun/entertainment and trade away. It beats hitting an innocent little ball with a stick in a big hay field, er... course, that is, trying to make it go into a hole. But that’s just me.
I’ve dabbled for a short time, mainly under the guidance of my brother, who actually studies this stuff.
His advice to me was to find a formerly profitable company that had recently weathered a storm or some unforeseen force that had driven the value down but which the company had managed to survive. For example, some smaller-yet-profitable companies can undergo government investigation for any number of things, and their values drop, even absent of a finding. If no violation, or even only a minor violation is found, those types of stocks may rebound.
Companies looking to diversify because of markets drying up can be good bets, too. That’s a sign that there are people within the company who are trying to adapt to changing conditions and are determined to make things work.
You’ll have to do a lot of research before you buy.
He hasn’t made a lot of money, but has gained more than he lost. You’re not going to be flipping stuff on a daily or weekly basis with this. Plan on keeping long-term, and plan on losing your money. Every time you put in more money, look at it as the last time you will ever see it. Don’t invest if you aren’t comfortable with that.
Personally, I would start with an amount of money you’re comfortable losing and use ONLY that. I’d warn you, though, that if you have a propensity to be addicted to gambling, this isn’t something for you.
I personally have an aversion to gambling, but I enjoy the thrill of watching the daily rise and fall. I usually put no more than $10 to $20 in any given stock at a time. Of course, if you’re investing $20 at a time, and buying at less than a penny a share, and it DOES take off, you could stand to make a decent amount of money.
I look at it the same as those who buy a Powerball ticket every week, except instead of my money going to the government, it’s going to someone who might be creating a job for someone else.
Here is a free Timothy Sykes play.
I dont know anything about the stock.
I do know that I view Sykes sort of like I do Goldman Sachs. For example, when they are downgrading Gold you know they are short and looking to go long...
I wont comment more than that about Sykes.
Do you own DD about this stock
My Number 1 rule. I do not INVEST in penny stocks.
I trade them.
If you are a novice I say to you STAY AWAY. At best, I would suggest you open a TDAmeritrade account and practice in a “paper money” account (which is not real).
The big problem with penny stocks, even if you understand the companies, is the lack of liquidity, resulting in sometimes a huge % difference between the bid and the ask. This means that every time you get in and out you are losing a lot of $.
I am currently really scared of the regular stock market after the big run-up in the last few years. As such I am very attracted to the Junior Mining sector (especially small miners, and not exploration companies that don’t produce any gold). These stocks have lost an average of 80% last year, and many of them are now penny stocks. Some of them have really quality properties with a lot of gold and silver resources. The gold price is now below some miners’ cost of production (and therefore less likely to lose much more and stay down there), so I try to pick companies whose cost of production is way lower than even the current gold price, and run by good management. I myself am in GGAZF, MMTMF, AUNFF, ISVLF. Again, don’t invest in them until you understand them inside and out.
I think this beaten down sector provides a potential as some of these companies are trading literally pennies on the dollar of what they should be trading, as if gold were already at $800! Caveat: many analysts including Goldman Sachs are forecasting $1050 gold during 2014.
If I were you and I like the junior sector, I would start by trading ETF’s such as the GDX, GDXJ, or the triple levered NUGT. They are much easier to get in and out and when (not if - everything has a cycle, and the world didn’t suddenly end on the mining sector!) the Junior mining sector is on an upswing, these ETF’s should give you fantastic return on your money. Just understand that before it starts recovering, it might take another hit.
Good luck investing!
Very good advice. I have forty years experience in investing in stocks -- including low priced issues -- bonds, options, and commodities. I have often dissuaded friends from "investing" in penny stocks. Invest in an broad index funds if you don't fully understand investing. Gamble in Vegas, if you must, but not in penny stocks.
Nobody should consider investing in a penny stock recommended by a broker before watching that movie. That's goes double for a broker who calls you unsolicited.
If you are a newbie then noone will recommend penny stocks. They are not for beginners. I trade them occasionally but I am very careful. They are never a core holding because of the speculative nature of these risky crap shoots. I would suggest buying and reading some books on stock trading basics. Follow some stocks on a Yahoo financial account you set up. Track their performance and see how you would do if you actually bought and sold those stocks. You may be better off buying ETFs and let them do the trading for you. It’s easy to lose money and hard to hang onto profits.
Thank you all. You’re the best.