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LOUIS DEFEATS SCHMELING BY A KNOCKOUT IN FIRST
Microfiche-New York Times archives | 6/23/38 | James P. Dawson

Posted on 06/23/2008 5:12:27 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson

LOUIS DEFEATS SCHMELING BY A KNOCKOUT IN FIRST; 80,000 SEE TITLE BATTLE

FIGHT ENDS IN 2:04

Rights Drop the Loser Thrice and Trainer Tosses In Towel

1936 SETBACK AVENGED

Challenger Says He Was Fouled With a Kidney Punch – The Gate Tops $900,000

By JAMES P. DAWSON
The exploding fists of Joe Louis crushed Max Schmeling last night in the ring at the Yankee Stadium and kept sacred that time-worn legend of boxing that no former heavyweight champion has ever regained the title.

The Brown Bomber from Detroit, with the most furious early assault he has ever exhibited here, knocked out Schmeling in the first round of what was to have been a fifteen-round battle to retain the title he won last year from James J. Braddock. He has now defended it successfully four times.

In exactly 2 minutes and 4 seconds of fighting Louis polished off the Black Uhlan from the Rhine, but, though the battle was short, it was furious and savage while it lasted, packed with thrills that held three knockdowns of the ambitious ex-champion, every moment tense for a crowd of about 80,000.

A Representative Gathering

This gathering, truly representative and comparing favorably with the largest crowds in boxing’s history, paid receipts estimated at between $900,000 and $1,000,000 to see whether Schmeling could repeat the knockout he administered to Louis just two years ago here and be the first ex-heavyweight champion to come back into the title, or whether the Bomber could avenge this defeat as he promised.

As far as the length of the battle was concerned, the investment in seats, which ran to $30 each, was a poor one. But for excitement, for drama, for pulse-throbs, those who came from near and far felt themselves well repaid because they saw a fight that, though it was one of the shortest heavyweight championships on record, was surpassed by few for thrills.

With the right hand that Schmeling held in contempt Louis knocked out his foe. Three times under its impact the German fighter hit the ring floor. The first time Schmeling regained his feet laboriously at the count of three. From the second knockdown Schmeling, dazed but game, bounced up instinctively before the count had gone beyond one.

On the third knockdown Schmeling’s trainer and closest friend, Max Machon, hurled a towel into the ring, European fashion, admitting defeat for his man. The towel sailed through the air when the count on the prostrate Max had reached three.

Ignored in Boxing Here

The signal is ignored in American boxing, has been for years, and Referee Arthur Donovan, before he had a chance to pick up the count in unison with knockdown timekeeper Eddie Josephs, who was outside the ring, gathered the white emblem in a ball and hurled it through the ropes.

Returning to Schmeling’s crumpled figure, Donovan took one look and signaled an end of the battle. The count at that time was five on the third knockdown. Further counting was useless. Donovan could have counted off a century and Max could not have regained his feet. The German was thoroughly “out.”

It was as if he had been pole-axed. His brain was awhirl, his body, his head, his jaws ached and pained, his senses were numbed from that furious, paralyzing punching he had taken even in the short space of time the battle consumed.

Following the bout, Schmeling claimed he was fouled. He said that he was hit a kidney punch, a devastating right, which so shocked his nervous system that he was dazed and his vision was blurred. To observers at the ringside, however, with all due respect to Schmeling’s thoughts on the subject, the punches which dazed him were thundering blows to the head, jaw and body in bewildering succession, blows of the old Alabama Assassin reincarnate last night for a special occasion.

Louis wanted to erase the memory of that 1936 knockout he suffered in twelve rounds. It was the one blot on his brilliant record. He aimed to square the account and he did.

Because of the excitement attending the finish, Louis, in the records, will be deprived of a clean-cut knockout. It will appear as a technical knockout because Referee Donovan didn’t complete the full ten-second count over Schmeling. But this is merely a technicality. No fighter ever was more thoroughly knocked out than was Max lasts night.

Thrilling to the spectacle of this short, savage victory which held so much significance was a gathering that included a member of President Roosevelt’s Cabinet, Postmaster General James A. Farley; Governors of several States, Mayors of cities in the East, South and Middle West, Representatives and Senators, judges and lawyers, politicians, doctors, figures of prominence in the professional world, leaders of banking, industry and commerce, stars of the stage and screen, ring champions of the past and present, leaders in other sports and other fields – all assembled eagerly awaiting the struggle whose appeal drew them from distant parts of the country and from Europe.

Millions Hear Fight

In addition to those looking on at the spectacle, there were millions listening in virtually all over the world, for this battle was broadcast in four languages, English, German, Spanish and Portuguese, so intense was the interest in its outcome.

Louis, hero of one of the greatest stories ever written in the ring, owner of a record of thirty-eight victories, in thirty-nine bouts spread over four years, entered the ring the favorite to win at odds of 1 to 2. He won like a 1-to10 shot. The knockout betting was at even money, take your pick. It could have been on Louis at 1 to 10, for Schmeling never had a chance. His number was up from the clang of the opening gong.

Schmeling, 32-year-old campaigner over a period of fourteen years, aspired to the unparalleled distinction of being the first man to regain the heavyweight crown. He suffered, instead, the fate that overtook Jim Corbett, Bob Fitzsimmons, Jim Jeffries and Jack Dempsey, ring immortals all, who tried and failed.

The fury of Louis’s attack explains the result in a nutshell. The defending champion came into the ring geared on high. He never stopped punching until his rival was a crumpled, inert, helpless figure, diving headlong into the resined canvas, rolling over there spasmodically, instinctively, trying to come erect, his spirit willing to return to the attack, his flesh weak, for mind and muscle could not be expected to function harmoniously under the terrific battering Schmeling absorbed in those fleeting two minutes.

Max Throws Two Punches

Emphasizing the savagery with which Louis went after this victory was Schmeling’s feeble effort at retaliation. The German ex-champion threw exactly two punches. That is how completely the Bomber established his mastery in this second struggle with the Black Uhlan.

With the opening gong, Louis crept softly out of his corner, pantherlike, eyes alert, arms poised, fists cocked to strike from any angle as he met Schmeling short of the ring’s center. Max backed carefully toward his own corner, watching Louis intently, his right, the right which thudded so punishingly against Joe’s jaw and temple two years ago, ready to strike over or under a left guard. At least, that was Schmeling’s pre-arranged plan.

But Louis wasted only a few seconds in studying his foe, menacing Max meanwhile with a spearing left before quickly going to work.

Like flashes from the blue, the Bomber’s sharp, powerful left started suddenly pumping into Schmeling’s face. The blows tilted Max’s head back, made his eyes blink, unquestionably stung him. The German’s head was going backward as if on hinges.

Max’s face was exposed to a left-hook attack and Louis interspersed his onslaught with a few of these blows, gradually forcing Schmeling back to the ropes and preventing the German from making an offensive or counter move, so fast and sharp and true was the opening fire of the defending champion.

Schmeling suddenly shot a right over Louis’s left for the jaw, but the blow was short and they went close. At long range again, Joe stuck and stabbed with his left to the face, trying to open a lane through Schmeling’s protecting arms and gloves for a more forceful shot from the right.

Again Lunges Forward

But the opening didn’t come immediately. Instead Schmeling again lunged forward, his right arching as it drove for Louis’s jaw, and it landed on the champion’s head as the Schmeling admirers in the tremendous crowd roared encouragement.

Louis, however, only scowled and stepped forward, this time with a terrific right to Schmeling’s jaw which banged Max against the ropes, his body partly turned toward the right from Louis.

Schmeling shook to his heels under the impact of that blow, but he gave no sign of toppling. And Joe, like a tiger, leaped upon him, driving a right to the ribs as Schmeling half turned – apparently the blow Schmeling later claimed was a foul – swinging with might and main, lefts and rights, that thudded against Schmeling’s bobbing head, grazed or cracked on Max’s jaw and swishing murderous looking left hooks into Schmeling’s stomach as the crumpling ex-champion grimaced in pain, his face wearing the expression of a fighter protesting “foul.”

Shaken when he first landed against the ropes, Schmeling was rendered groggy under the furious assault to which Louis subjected him while he stood there trying unsuccessfully to avoid the blows or grasp a chance to clinch.

Suddenly the Bomber’s right, sharp and true with the weight of his 198 ¾ pounds back of it, as well as his knack of driving it home, landed cleanly on Schmeling’s jaw. Max toppled forward and down. He was hurt and stunned, but gamely the German came erect at the count of three.

Louis was on him in a jiffy, with the fury of a jungle beast. After propping the tottering Schmeling with a jolting left to the face, the Bomber’s deadly right fist again exploded in Max’s face, and under another crack on the jaw, Schmeling went down. This time, however, the German regained his feet before the count progressed beyond one.

Crowd in an Uproar

But Schmeling was helpless. He staggered drunkenly for a few backward steps, the crowd in and uproar as Louis stealthily followed and measured his man. Max was an open target. His jaw was unprotected and inviting. His mid-section was a mark for punches. The kill was within Louis’s grasp. He lost no time in ceremony.

Spearing Schmeling with blinding straight lefts, numbing Max with powerful left hooks that were sharp, true and destructive, Louis set the stage for one finishing right to the jaw, released the blow and landed in a flash, and the German toppled over in a headlong dive, completely unconscious.

The din of the crowd echoed over the arena, cheers for the conquering Louis, shrieks of entreaty and shouts of advice for Schmeling. But this thunderous roar was unheard by the befogged Schmeling and was ignored by the Bomber, intent only on the destruction of his foe.

In routine fashion, Eddie Josephs, a licensed referee converted into a knockdown timekeeper, started the count over the stricken Schmeling. He counted one, then two, as Referee Donovan went about the duty of signaling Louis to the farthest neutral corner.

Machon Hurls Towel

At “three” a white towel sailed aloft form Schmeling’s corner, hurled by the ever-faithful Machon, who realized, as did every one else in the vast gathering, that Schmeling was knocked out, if he was not, indeed, badly hurt.

The towel fell in the ring a few feet from Schmeling. It is the custom in European rings to recognize this gesture as a concession of defeat. It used to be recognized here. But for many years now it has been banned, and Referee Donovan, disregarding the emblem of surrender, tossed it through the ropes and out of the ring.

When he returned to the prostrate figure of Schmeling, moving convulsively on the ring floor doubtless with that instinctive impulse to arise, the count had reached “five.” One look was enough for Donovan. Instantly he spread his arms in a signal that meant the end of the bout, although Time-keeper Josephs, as he is duty bound to do, continued counting outside the ring.

This led to confusion at the finish. Some thought the third knock-down count was eight. Actually, the bout was ended at the count of five, the three seconds beyond that time being a gesture against emergency that was superfluous. Schmeling could not have arisen inside the legal ten-second stretch. His hopes wee blasted. He was a thoroughly beaten man.

In a few moments, however, as police swarmed into the ring and his handlers worked over him in the corner to which he was assisted, Schmeling returned to consciousness. He was able to smile bravely as he walked across the ring to shake the hand of the conquering Louis, a gesture that carried the impression, somehow, that Max realized at long last that Louis is his master now and for all time.

Bout Described Blow by Blow

Louis came out of his corner quickly and wasted little time springing at his foe. He lashed out with two lefts to the face and cracked a right to the jaw. Schmeling tagged the jaw with a right but the punch seemingly had no effect on the champion.

The challenger hooked a left to the head and took a left to the body in return. Louis drove Schmeling to the ropes with a fusillade of rights and lefts to the head. The latter was absorbing punishment about the body without being able to lift a hand in his own defense.

Referee Donovan stepped between them, as if to stop the slaughter, but did nothing but wave Louis back to mid-ring.

Puzzled for a second or two, Louis returned to the attack on shouts from his corner and crashed a right to Schmeling’s jaw, flooring him for a count of three. The German arose shakily and was submitted to a heavy body fire before taking another right to the jaw, a paunch which put him down for only one second.

Rubber-legged and glassy-eyed, the gallant German sought to hold off his tormentor, but Louis shot both hands to the body with crushing force, drove a sharp left hook to the jaw, then fired a right to the chin that felled Schmeling once more. The challenger’s instinct drove him to drag himself to all fours, but further he could not move.

The count had reached three when Max Machon, Schmeling’s trainer, tossed in the towel to signal defeat. At five Referee Donovan waved his hands to signal the end of the battle. The round had gone 2 minutes 4 seconds.

STREET DANCE IN CHICAGO

Negroes in Gay Celebration of Louis’s Triumph

CHICAGO, June 22 (AP). – Chicago’s Negro section, with a population of 232,000, staged a gay celebration of Joe Louis’s one-round victory over Max Schmeling tonight.

Shots were fired in the air, firecrackers set off, trolley poles jerked from street cars and some windows broken.

Crowds poured into the streets a few moments after Schmeling’s defeat was broadcast from New York. Dancing Negroes covered the pavements and tied up traffic. Night clubs in the district reported the liveliest business since New Year’s Eve.

Special police details were on duty in the district south of the loop, but no arrests were reported early in the celebration.

CRITICISM BY MAX BAER

Says He and Schmeling Made the Same Mistake

Max Baer had a very good vest-pocked criticism of Max Schmeling’s tactics when the fight was over. In a few thousand well-chosen words the voluble Livermore Larruper discoursed on the battle. The gist of his remarks is found in one sentence.

“The trouble with Schmeling,” he said, “was that he fought Louis the way Baer fought him – he did not throw any punches.”

Baer revealed that he would sign with Louis today at the commission offices for a fight in September.

JOE GLAD HE PROVED A WORTHY CHAMPION

Says He Was a ‘Bit Sore’ at Max, Explaining Savagery

“Now I feel like the champion.”

These were Joe Louis’s first words on his arrival in his dressing room.

“I’ve been waiting a long time for this night,” he added, “and I sure do feel pretty glad about everything. I was a little bit sore at some of the things Max said. Maybe he didn’t say them, maybe they put those words in his mouth, but he didn’t deny them, and that’s what made me mad.”

What Louis referred to, probably, was the statement attributed to Schmeling a month ago, to the effect that the Negro would always be afraid of him. Something must have rankled Joe, for the savagery with which he battered down the German was never displayed in his other bouts here.

Most of Louis’s remarks were addressed to Governor Frank Murphy of Michigan, one of the first admitted to the champion’s dressing room.

The Governor admittedly was “full of hero-worship” as he shook hands with the Detroit boxer who, on his own account, was immeasurably pleased with Murphy’s visit.

“You’ll never know how my heart thumped during that round, Joe,” said the Governor.

“I’m glad I made it short for you, sir,” responded the champion, who looked exactly like a wool-gathering youngster standing in awe of royalty, instead of a young man who had just earned about $400,000 in 124 seconds.

Louis’s managers, Julian Black and John Roxborough, were incensed at Schmeling’s claim of foul at first, then laughed it off, saying: “That’s for German consumption.”

Asked if Schmeling would be considered for a return fight, Black replied, “Certainly not. We’ve demonstrated tonight that Joe is just too good for Schmeling. We’ve had enough of him, and he certainly has had enough of us!”

The champion’s immediate plans are indefinite. He’ll stay around to collect his check today, and probably take in the ball game at the Polo Grounds.

USE PLANE FOR FORECAST

Rain Prediction Follows Tests at 12,000-Foot Level

A new development in fight weather forecasts was introduced yesterday in connection with the Louis-Schmeling fight – and with discouraging results. At the request of Promoter Mike Jacobs, who wanted to allay his fears with a special forecast, the United Air Lines sent W. B. Beckwith, one of its meteorologists, aloft in a plane at noon to the 12,000-foot level., where he could get a forecast based on upper air temperatures and the structure of clouds above this level.

When Beckwith landed he telephoned Jacobs with following:

“Continued overcast, with occasional mist or light rain from 6 P. M. to mnidnight.”

Jacobs decided thereupon he could have gotten along splendidly without this information.

IDOL’S DOWNFALL SADDENS GERMANS

Gay Radio Parties in Berlin Stunned by Louis’s Quick Knockout Triumph

BERLIN, Thursday, June 23 (AP). – All Germany, clustered about it short-wave radio sets in the early morning hours, was thunderstruck and almost unbelieving at the unexpected news that “Unser Maxe” Schmeling had failed in his heavyweight comeback try, and failed by the knockout route.

Their high hopes of hearing black-browed Schmeling had fought his way back to the heavyweight championship were dashed so suddenly that the ardor of radio parties and café gatherings was quickly dampened.

Heavy-lidded Germans, who had stayed up till 3 A. M. for the short-wave broadcast only to hear a 2:04 minute fight end with dramatic dispatch, climbed into bed a saddened lot at Joe Louis’s victory.

All over the Reich they had clustered in homes, restaurants and cafes to hear the fight they hoped would bring the world’s championship to Germany.

It was said Adolf Hitler at his Bavarian mountain retreat was among those who heard the disheartening news.

Keeps News From Wife

The maid at Schmeling’s Berlin home was so disappointed by the knockout she said she would not awaken Maxie’s movie actress wife, Anny Ondra, who left instructions not to be aroused until after the fight.

“I think morning will be time enough to tell her,” said the maid, who had stayed up in hope of being able to bear her good news.

The Sportsbar, where Schmeling and his cronies have a regularly reserved table, was “like a tomb,” a waiter lamented after the radio told the sad story to patrons looking glumly into their beer steins.

Schmeling’s German pals said their only comment was an echo of what the German announcer said at the close of his broadcast from the Yankee Stadium ringside:

“We sympathize with you, Max, although you lost as a fair sportsman.

“We will show you on your return that reports in foreign newspapers that you would be thrown into jail are untrue.”

Officials Listen In

K. Metzner, head of the German Boxing Federation, who listened to the broadcast with members of the International European Boxing Federation (FIFA), believed the fight, because of its sudden end, did not give a clear picture of whether Louis or Schmeling was the better fighter.

He said Louis undoubtedly was in excellent form. Schmeling, he thought, watched Louis’s left hand too closely, whereas since their last meeting two years ago Louis had developed a powerful right.

He said it was hard to judge whether Trainer Machon’s action in throwing in the towel was the proper move, thus making the fight end as a technical knockout.

He added Schmeling could be sure of as hearty a reception at home as ever.

Statistics on Fight

Attendance – 80,000 Estimated gross receipts - $900,000 Federal tax - $90,000 State tax - $45,000 Louis’s share (40 per cent of net) - $306,000 Schmeling’s share (20 per cent of net) - $153,000 Promoter’s share, from which all other expenses are deducted - $306,000.

HARLEM CELEBRANTS TOSS VARIED MISSILES

Thirty Are Slightly Injured – Yorkville Laughs Ruefully

Harlem’s celebration of the victory of its hero, Joe Louis, over Max Schmeling started off deliriously but more or less peacefully after the fight ended last night, but wound up early this morning with a wholesale throwing of bottles, tin cans and other missiles from roof tops and windows in the vicinity of Seventh avenue and 130th Street that resulted in slight injuries to twenty policemen and ten civilians.

Mounted Patrolman Edward Grout was the only one of the casualties who needed special attention, the others suffering minor cuts and bruises. Grout suffered a concussion of the brain when an ash can cover hit him on the head and knocked him off his horse. He received treatment in the West 123d Street station and remained off duty.

The disturbance at Seventh Avenue and 130th Street was quickly quelled by a number of the extra policemen assigned to special duty in Harlem. Meanwhile, all was peaceful in the German-American quarter around East Eighty-sixth Street, where the reaction to the Negro’s victory over the German pugilist was one of good-natured “joke-on-us” laughter.

Emmet Smith, a Negro, 23 years old, of 204 West 133d street, was arrested on a charge of disorderly conduct for tossing a bottle into the air from the sidewalk.

The Harlem streets were almost deserted when the fight began. The Brown Bomber’s admirers were all indoors, listening to the radio descriptions of the historic one-round knockout. No sooner was the Schmeling debacle over than thousands of men, women and children surged out of tenements and radio stores into the Harlem streets, shouting with glee.

Their exuberance at first took the form of hopping upon the running boards and tops of passing taxicabs and private cars, knocking over ash cans and traffic signs and yelling plaudits of their hero.

On his way home from the fight Police Commissioner Valentine stopped at the West 135th Street station to get reports on the Harlem situation. Learning that everything was peaceful, the Commissioner ordered all traffic on Seventh Avenue between 125th and 145th Streets shut off so that the celebrants could cut all the capers why pleased.

“This is their night, let them have their fun,” said the Commissioner.

Residents of Yorkville conceded that the better man had won and ruefully counted up their betting losses. Negro bettors had descended on Yorkville for several days offering varying odds on Louis and finding plenty of takers. When the fight began, German-American beer dispensaries and restaurants were crowded with eager radio-listeners. When the fight ended there was an almost universal silence and then bursts of laughter that sounded sheepish to some observers.

TEAR GAS SCATTERS MOB IN CLEVELAND

Riots Follow Louis Victory – Police Felled

CLEVELAND, June 22 (AP). – Police used tear gas to quell a riotous crowd tonight in the Negro section here celebrating Joe Louis’s victory over Max Schmeling.

Charity Hospital was filled with injured and attendants notified police to take others to other hospitals.

One man was shot, probably fatally; two policemen were felled by flying bricks, a street car was stoned, passengers were hurt and sirens screamed at man false alarms.

At one busy intersection jammed with celebrants and spectators general fighting broke out. Knives flashed, clubs swung and missiles flew. All available police squads rushed to the scene and tear gas scattered the melee.

There was only momentary silence after the knockout. Then a din burst loose that could be heard many blocks from the celebration center.

Old men and women did the Big Apple in the streets with the youngsters. Thousands were attracted by the general jamboree and hundreds of police were rushed to the district.

Prominent German clubs were crowded with families drinking beer in silence.

DETROIT NEGROES JOYFUL

Sing and Dance in Streets to Celebrate Louis’s Victory

DETROIT, June 22 (AP). – Negro residents of Detroit’s “Paradise Valley,” who had confidently petitioned the City Council two weeks ago for permission to do so, danced and sang in roped-off streets tonight in celebration of Joe Louis’s knockout victory over Max Schmeling.

Police estimated the crowd in the vicinity of St. Antoine and Beacon Streets at 10,000. Celebrations were staged, however, in Negro neighborhoods throughout the city.

Old and young danced in the streets, some in couples and others in rings with locked hands. A swing band played until a late hour.

Albert Pakeman, acting “Mayor of the Valley,” said there had not been much betting “because the boys couldn’t find any Schmeling money.”

Fan Dies After Broadcast

WINCHESTER, Ind., June 22 (AP). – Excitement over the Louis-Schmeling championship fight proved fatal tonight to Richard Hall, 65, Winchester laborer, who suffered a heart attack at the conclusion of a radio broadcast.

Special Trains on Subway

The Independent Subway had special expresses running from Forty-second street right to the Stadium station, ordinarily a local stop. The same system worked in reverse on the return trip.

Bill introduced in Cuba To Make July 4 a Holiday

Special Cable to THE NEW YORK TIMES.
HAVANA, June 22. – A bill declaring the coming Fourth of July a national holiday was introduced in the House of Representatives last night by Paul de Cardenas, Representative from Havana Province.

The bill is designed to suspend all commercial, industrial and governmental activities to permit attendance at a demonstration being organized for the Fourth of July as homage to the United States.

Plans for the demonstration, which will be held under the auspices of the cultural, social, economic and patriotic groups of the island, were launched last week.

The committee has asserted that homage is being paid to the United States “solely to cultivate and strengthen the sentiment of friendship and close relations that have always existed between the two peoples.”


TOPICS: History; Sports
KEYWORDS: realtime

1 posted on 06/23/2008 5:12:27 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
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To: fredhead; GOP_Party_Animal; r9etb; PzLdr; dfwgator; Paisan; From many - one.; rockinqsranch; ...

This must have been a huge event judging by the coverage in The Times. The story dominates the front page as well as page 1 of the sports section and sidebars run through the whole paper. I posted several of these after the main story.


2 posted on 06/23/2008 5:14:24 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson (For events that occurred in 1938, real time is 1938, not 2008.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Reminds me of Hitler choosing to leave the stadium rather than watch Jesse Owens...an American black guy...be awarded an Olympic Gold Medal.
3 posted on 06/23/2008 5:15:41 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (The problem with the rat race is,even if you win you're still a rat.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

I seem to have read or seen something, that Schmelling bailed ($$$$$) Lewis out later in life.


4 posted on 06/23/2008 5:20:49 AM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (If everyone stays home and no one votes will Congress disappear?)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Joe Louis and Jesse Owens provided America... and the democracies... a couple of early victories over the nazi juggernaut.


5 posted on 06/23/2008 5:22:20 AM PDT by johnny7 ("Duck I says... ")
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To: johnny7

I wonder who would have won if Lewis and Archie Moore had faught during the same time.


6 posted on 06/23/2008 5:25:14 AM PDT by Radl
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
$30 a ticket in those days was probably, what, a weeks pay?

Negroes in Gay Celebration of Louis’s Triumph

those were the days.

~~el puno machina.

7 posted on 06/23/2008 5:26:56 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (the media vs. the people.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

8 posted on 06/23/2008 5:28:32 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote!)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Major League Baseball

American League

……………………...Won…Lost…Percentage………..Games Behind Cleve………………...36……20…….643…………………….-
Boston……………….33……24…….579………………….3 1/2
N. Y…………………31……24…….564…………………..4 1/2
Detroit……………….30……29…….508………………….7 1/2
Wash………………...31……30…….508………………….7 1/2
Phila…………………25……30…….455………………….10 1/2
Chic………………….20……33…….385………………….14
St. L…………………18…….35…….340………………….16 1/2

National League

……………………...Won…Lost…Percentage………..Games Behind
N. Y………………….35……22….....614………………….-
Chic………………….34……25…….576………………….2
Cincin………………..31……23…….574………………….2 1/2
Pitts………………….30……23…….565………………….3
Boston……………….27……25…….519………………….5 1/2
St. L…………………24……30…….444…………………..9 1/2
Bklyn………………..23……34…….404………………….12
Phila………………...14……36…….280…………………..17 1/2

9 posted on 06/23/2008 5:34:14 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson (For events that occurred in 1938, real time is 1938, not 2008.)
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To: Radl
In the few fights I saw Archie Moore... all I can say is a Louis/Moore fight would have been top-tier.


10 posted on 06/23/2008 5:40:04 AM PDT by johnny7 ("Duck I says... ")
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To: Bringbackthedraft

Schemling hated Hitler and Hitler returned the favor by putting Schemling in the paratroops hoping he be killed.


11 posted on 06/23/2008 5:49:43 AM PDT by Dr. Ursus (( commander of the simian host))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Harry Reid used to be a boxer.

His handlers had so much confidence in his abilities that they used to rent out the bottoms of his shoes for advertising space.. :-)


12 posted on 06/23/2008 5:58:32 AM PDT by vietvet67
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To: vietvet67

LOL!


13 posted on 06/23/2008 6:08:40 AM PDT by Dr. Ursus (( commander of the simian host))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

This is old news.


14 posted on 06/23/2008 6:12:03 AM PDT by Jack Wilson
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

The very worst beating you’d ever see a counter-puncher absorb. Schmeling’s one hope against Louis was throwing a hard right over Louis’ jab; it worked in the first fight but no rational person would have expected it to work a second time.


15 posted on 06/23/2008 6:18:15 AM PDT by wendy1946
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To: johnny7

Archie was fighting during a period when they still had great fighters. He was in just about every weight division and kept winning even when he was in his 40’s I believe. I consider him one of the greatest if not the greatest. He had a losses but so did Ali. Ali should of had more but they gave the fight to him since he was reigning champ. Ali definitely lost to Ken Norton at least on one occasion and got the victory. I believe Young beat him also and got screwed. He faught when there were a few great fighters and the rest bums. I know this is something you just don’t say but I think Louis and Moore were the greatest followed by Ali.


16 posted on 06/23/2008 6:19:41 AM PDT by Radl
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To: Dr. Ursus

Oh it gets better.

Reid had to give up boxing because his hands went bad.

The referee kept stepping on them.
___________________________________________________________

In one fight he returned to the corner between rounds all bloodied and bruised. His trainer said “You’re doing good, he ain’t laid a hand on ya.”

Reid responded “Well then keep your eye on the referee cause someone is kicking the sh*t outta me.” :-)


17 posted on 06/23/2008 6:20:56 AM PDT by vietvet67
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To: Jack Wilson
This is old news.

It is? Let me check the paper---

Nope. June 23rd. Hot off the presses.

18 posted on 06/23/2008 6:33:22 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson (For events that occurred in 1938, real time is 1938, not 2008.)
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To: the invisib1e hand

Yeah, interesting detail in the article. I remember having to pass-up on the “pay per view” opportunity for the first Ali-Frazier match in the early 70’s when I was in grad school because the cost was $25 and “too high” for my budget. I “listened” to the radio summaries (there was no live radio) after each round and it sounded like a relatively boring match but the reports the next day left me with great regret not finding the $25 to see that match at the pay-per-view venue.

Despite all the problems and issues, there’s really nothing like a heavyweight championship fight for sports drama.


19 posted on 06/23/2008 6:52:21 AM PDT by ReleaseTheHounds ("The demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots.")
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To: wendy1946
My parents had a record (what's that) of old radio moments, (Hindenburg Disaster, The Shadow Knows, Our Miss Brooks, Harry Hershfield and this fight). It is amazing the mind pictures the good radio announcers can paint.
20 posted on 06/23/2008 6:52:36 AM PDT by gov_bean_ counter ( Who is America's George Galloway?)
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To: vietvet67

This thread is worth reading for the Harry Reid jokes alone.

The fight I woulda paid $30 to see would pit Cassius Clay against Rocky Marciano.


21 posted on 06/23/2008 6:57:46 AM PDT by Former War Criminal
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To: Radl
I believe Young beat him also and got screwed.

Best counter-puncher I ever saw... a pleasure to watch.

I also liked small brawlers too...


22 posted on 06/23/2008 7:03:27 AM PDT by johnny7 ("Duck I says... ")
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To: Former War Criminal

That fight would have been interesting.

My take is Clay’s speed would have been his advantage as lone as he distanced himself but in close Rocky would have taken him apart.


23 posted on 06/23/2008 7:04:17 AM PDT by vietvet67
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To: vietvet67

Somewhere out there is a computer simulation of just such a fight.

I can’t remember who won!

I would’ve rooted for both of them. Kinda like a Cubs-Red Sox World series. (Oh please dear Lord...PLEASE)


24 posted on 06/23/2008 7:09:57 AM PDT by Former War Criminal
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To: Former War Criminal
Kinda like a Cubs-Red Sox World series. (Oh please dear Lord...PLEASE)

Check out my reply #9. The Cubbies and Bosox are each in second in their respective leagues. (Although I screwed up the formatting of the American.) We are still a couple weeks from the all-star break, but this could be your year!

25 posted on 06/23/2008 7:18:31 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson (For events that occurred in 1938, real time is 1938, not 2008.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
A few responses:

1. Back then, heavyweight championship fights were such major events that they absolutely dominated the front pages of newspapers, the radio coverage, etc.

2. When Schmeling beat Louis in their first meeting, it was no fluke. Louis had been beating everybody up, but still had not reached his full development as a boxer and had some holes in his "game." Schmeling was a very smart ... and underrated ... boxer and did what smart boxers do, take advantage of your opponent's weaknesses. He beat Louis up in that fight, again it was no fluke. But in 1938, Louis had filled in those holes and had reached his full development as a fighter, plus he had a real mad-on for Schmeling that night. IMHO no fighter who's ever laced a glove could have beaten Joe Louis on that particular night in history.

3. Schmeling got the Coca-Cola franchise in Germany after the war and retained it until his death, and became a very rich man and a noted philantropist. He and Louis did become good friends in later life, and when Louis became destitute ... the story of Joe Louis after his boxing career is one of the saddest stories you could ever imagine ... Schmeling did help pay his medical bills.

4. Donning my asbestos ... Ali would have picked Marciano apart, probably busted his face to pieces and the fight would end up being stopped on cuts. Rocky was tough, one of those guys that you would have to pretty much kill to stop, but Ali had 30 pounds, five inches in height and 13 inches in reach on him, plus he had better defense than anybody Marciano faced. An Ali-Marciano fight would have been sort of like Ali-Frazier, only again Frazier had more physical tools than Marciano plus he always got it up for Ali because he had the same kind of perpetual mad-on for Ali ... still does ... that Louis had for Schmeling that night.

5. The better fight would be Ali-Louis, and IMHO if Louis is able to cut the right off on Ali, he wins because while he didn't have the foot speed of Ali, he matched him in size and reach and hand speed, and while Ali's punching power in his prime was much underrated, it was not in the same solar system as Louis.

26 posted on 06/23/2008 7:26:29 AM PDT by GB
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

You are caught in a time warp, right? Very funny, really.

I know that this (2008) looks good for the Cubs and Red Sox. It also looked good for the New England Patriots.

I hate the LCS format. I won’t be happy until a Cub/Red Sox series begins. Who cares which tune the Fat Lady sings after that?


27 posted on 06/23/2008 7:31:17 AM PDT by Former War Criminal
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To: Former War Criminal

“Marciano won the bout - knocking out Ali a minute into the 13th round.”

http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/MarcianoCessna.htm


28 posted on 06/23/2008 7:41:24 AM PDT by vietvet67
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To: vietvet67
Same round Marciano knocked Walcott out in to win the title, with one of the two best single-punch knockouts I've ever seen. (The other one is Sonny Liston flooring a German pug named Albert Westphal in the first round, you can find it on YouTube).

I still think for real Ali cuts him to ribbons. Walcott, Ezzard Charles, even an aged Louis before he wore down and got KO'd busted Marciano up ... Charles literally split Rocky's nose into at the septum, if Marciano had not knocked Charles out very quickly after that happened, the fight probably would have been stopped with Rocky the loser ... one can only imagine what Ali with his fast hands (and again, Ali in his prime was a much better puncher than he is given credit for) would have done. And I don't see Rocky, as tough as he was, getting through Ali's defense in Ali's prime.

29 posted on 06/23/2008 8:03:02 AM PDT by GB
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
For your consideration: Louis-Schmeling

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6A5aeD6oT_k

Marciano KO's Walcott for the title:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WzYvErqjtDI&feature=related

The Liston-Westphal KO I mentioned (although you have to sit through another Liston fight to get it):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Eg-mvGAT80w

30 posted on 06/23/2008 8:25:33 AM PDT by GB
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To: johnny7

Roberto Duran was a hell of a lot more than a small brawler. Somewhere between Duran and Roy Jones is probably the best prizefighter we’ve had over the last 50 or 60 years. Jerry Quarry answered a question of Howard Cossell’s early on as to what they were seeing in Duran and Quarry, who was a serious student of the game, described Duran as the rarest bird in the entire game, i.e. a guy who basically moved forward and threw heavy punches and STILL never got hit and he said you didn’t even need the fingers of one hand to count ALL of those since boxing was invented. Last one prior to Duran might have been Sam Langford.


31 posted on 06/23/2008 8:30:51 AM PDT by wendy1946
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Schmeling was a very good man. During Kristallnacht he hid a couple of Jewish kids in his hotel room so they wouldn’t get killed.


32 posted on 06/23/2008 8:40:44 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Former War Criminal
It also looked good for the New England Patriots.

Funny you bring them up.

Last week, I got into an argument with a rabid, Boston sports fan(during chemotherapy of all places!) who said the Patriots choked. Now I'm no Patriots fan... but this assinine stupidity really pushed my buttons. Listening to MA sports shows, I get the feeling that people up here either have a severe case of cataracts... or they watch a game with some kinda'wierd glasses that blot out the plays of the opposition.

Damned if I suffer fools!

33 posted on 06/23/2008 9:10:14 AM PDT by johnny7 ("Duck I says... ")
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Here's an interesting document from around the same time.

Nanking International Relief Comittee - 20 June 1938

I just ran across this the other day and didn't realize the scope of the attempted relief effort after the rape of Nanking (Dec 1937).

34 posted on 06/23/2008 9:48:38 AM PDT by CougarGA7 (Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Looks like there were cheap seats for $3.50.

35 posted on 06/23/2008 9:59:26 AM PDT by CougarGA7 (Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.)
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To: raybbr

Hey! That’s against the law. You can’t post my personal medical information like that. Haven’t you heard of HIPPA?


36 posted on 06/23/2008 10:07:43 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson (For events that occurred in 1938, real time is 1938, not 2008.)
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To: Former War Criminal
You are caught in a time warp, right?

Actually, I'm hoping for a real miracle - a Browns-Bees series. Realistically, though, it probably won't happen.

37 posted on 06/23/2008 10:11:38 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson (For events that occurred in 1938, real time is 1938, not 2008.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

“The German ex-champion threw exactly two punches.”

This sounds like the classic “two-hit fight.” Louis hit Schmelling, and Schmelling hit the canvas.

As a follow-up:

Schmelling became a paratrooper (Fallschirmjaeger) in WW2, and fought in the paratroop invasion of Crete. The Fallschirmjaeger were elite units, to the same degree as the American Airborne divisions. He survived the war and passed away a year or two ago.

Louis served in the military during the war, but I don’t believe he saw combat. He did make a physical conditioning training film for the Army. He looked good in dress shirt, tie & campaign hat.


38 posted on 06/23/2008 11:03:21 AM PDT by henkster (Politics is the art of telling a bigger and more believable lie more often than your opponent)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Hey! That’s against the law. You can’t post my personal medical information like that. Haven’t you heard of HIPPA?

LOL! Good one. Glad to see you still have your sense of humor.

39 posted on 06/23/2008 11:37:32 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote!)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Ping for later.

Excellent writing! You don’t see this today.


40 posted on 06/23/2008 11:53:07 AM PDT by Eaker (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to have TheMom kill everyone you meet.)
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To: henkster
Schmelling became a paratrooper (Fallschirmjaeger) in WW2, and fought in the paratroop invasion of Crete.

I understand the German's took heavy casualties during that operation. It was sort of a shock to those in the high command who were used to easier operations like Holland and Denmark.

From reply #11:

Schemling hated Hitler and Hitler returned the favor by putting Schemling in the paratroops hoping he be killed.

Have you heard about this before?

41 posted on 06/23/2008 1:14:56 PM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson (For events that occurred in 1938, real time is 1938, not 2008.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

First, the German paratroop units took very heavy casualties in capturing Crete. The invasion did not go as the Germans planned. Crete was to be a combined airborne/amphibious assault, same as Allied assaults in Normandy & Sicily. However, the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force destroyed and/or turned back the amphibious element, leaving the lightly armed paratroops to take the island on their own. That they did was a testament to their fighting ability. And no surprise they suffered high casualties.

The casualties were so high Hitler forbade the mass use of paratroops in airborne assaults from that time forward. Of course, it was also very difficult for the Germans to secure local air superiority after mid-1943 to make it feasible.

As to Schmeling, I don’t think so. He was never a member of the Nazi Party. However, to state he “hated” Hitler is a stretch. 90% of Germans hated Hitler...in 1946. And I don’t think Hitler put him in the Fallschirmjaeger to have him killed. Had Hitler wanted that outcome, he would have parachuted him into Stalingrad after the encirclement. No, I think Schmeling was merely a patriot doing what he honorably believed was his duty to his country.


42 posted on 06/23/2008 1:36:33 PM PDT by henkster (Politics is the art of telling a bigger and more believable lie more often than your opponent)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
LOUIS DEFEATS SCHMELING

What! Where is the YouTube?

43 posted on 06/23/2008 2:31:32 PM PDT by MosesKnows (Love many, Trust few, and always paddle your own canoe)
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To: GB; All
3. Schmeling got the Coca-Cola franchise in Germany after the war and retained it until his death, and became a very rich man and a noted philantropist. He and Louis did become good friends in later life, and when Louis became destitute ... the story of Joe Louis after his boxing career is one of the saddest stories you could ever imagine ... Schmeling did help pay his medical bills. P>You seem to know what you're talking about -- I hope your facts are straight.

This post and this whole thread have been quite a treat.

44 posted on 06/23/2008 5:44:25 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (the media vs. the people.)
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To: CougarGA7; Tainan
That is a remarkable letter. And timely (6/20). It is amazing what is available on line. I don't think the younguns today appreciate what they have that their parents didn't.

I have made some progress on Barbara Tuchman's book Stilwell and the American Experience in China. She explains that the American public got an idealized version of the Chinese from the missionary societies. Supposedly there were hundreds of millions of souls just dying to be converted to Christianity and to set up an American-style democracy. So Americans gave big bucks to the missionaries for relief while the government tried to look out for our far eastern interests without sinking too deeply into the exploitation practiced by the old colonial powers. Tuchman does a much better job of explaining the situation in China in the early twentieth century, so I recommend her book to anyone who wants background on the China of 1938.

45 posted on 06/23/2008 9:02:25 PM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson (For events that occurred in 1938, real time is 1938, not 2008.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

I’ll have to go get that book. Sounds like some good insight to be had. I always like to find historical writings that were written by those who were actually experiencing the time. Not to put down those books that were written later and are very well researched, but there is some nuance that these books have that cannot be captured by someone who did not actually experience it.


46 posted on 06/23/2008 10:47:36 PM PDT by CougarGA7 (Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson; CougarGA7
The Chennault/Stillwell ground vs air power background theme is great reading also. As is the insights on the British state of mind during their Burma days.

And the parts on how Madame Chiang played Americans like a tin flute is very good also.
Great thread. I'm an old time boxing fan also. In my Fathers opinion, Moore was the best of the lot. He saw him box several times. And he also saw Clay/Ali fight as well. He put Ali at #2. He also had great respect for Ezard Charles; but Charles had a lot of bad luck in his life.
47 posted on 06/24/2008 1:00:24 AM PDT by Tainan (Talk is cheap. Silence is golden. All I got is brass...lotsa brass.)
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To: the invisib1e hand
Here's a link ... and after 10 years I still can't figure out how to post direct links here, so you'll have to cut and paste ... with some more info about Schmeling and some confirmation about some of the things he did to help Louis, along with the fact that he helped pay for Joe's funeral and was a pallbearer, although it doesn't mention medical bills specifically, I had seen the medical bills mentioned in a couple of biographies of Louis and it's on Wikipedia if that's an acceptable source.

I'm glad Joe whipped him in '38, but again, the weight of the evidence for how he helped Joe and some other things cited in this link shows that Max Schmeling was a very good human being.

http://www.raoulwallenberg.net/?en/press/max-schmeling-joe-louis-s.2157.htm

48 posted on 06/28/2008 6:30:42 AM PDT by GB
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To: the invisib1e hand; All
Also, here's a little primer on Joe for those who might be interested but aren't inclined to pursue it. His story is a sad story but an interesting story, I've read just about every biography there is out there on him.

During the war, he was in the Army and spent a lot of time in Europe boxing exhibition matches to entertain the troops. He got money for these matches. He donated every penny of the money to military relief funds. However, the IRS counted it as income to him and fully taxed it, at wartime rates. He wasn't too clear about what was happening and didn't pay the money, and interest and penalties built up. Eventually, the IRS came calling. And they went after that poor man like Javert after Jean Valjean, pretty much up until the end of his life. They never forgave a penny of the original debt, although at the end they stopped charging interest and penalties on it, thanks to Joe's final wife who was a lawyer and who took on the IRS over this.

Joe was pretty much done as a fighter toward the end of his championship reign. He should have lost the title to Walcott in their first fight but got a questionable decision, then was able to knock Walcott out in the rematch although the decline in his skills was still evident. He then retired as champ, Walcott and Charles fought for the vacant title and Charles won.

But Joe had no other way to satisfy the taxman, so he came back and fought Charles to try to regain the title. And Charles beat him up over 15 rounds. Didn't knock him out, but made hash of his face and just really beat him up. Joe should have quit then, but couldn't because of the taxman, so he kept fighting, had some fair to middling performances against some fighters who were actually pretty prominent in the day, then got thrown in against Marciano. And he actually started off well against Marciano, was in control early and busted up Marciano's face. But Marciano was relentless, Joe finally wore down and Marciano knocked him out.

That was the end of the boxing, but Joe turned to rasslin' to try to make enough money to keep the IRS off his a**. However, he got hurt in a match ... somebody whose name escapes me fell on his chest and bruised his heart ... and the doctors wouldn't clear him to rassle anymore.

So for the next 20 years or so, he was a rasslin' referee, appeared on quiz shows, did personal appearances, got money to appear at championship fights, etc., pretty much anything he could get a few dollars into his pocket from, which the IRS pretty much immediately shanghaied. He also had some business deals go bad.

And he also fell in with some unsavory characters and started doing drugs, most notably cocaine, some have speculated heroin since one of those unsavory characters who he called a close friend was a big heroin dealer in Vegas.

Because of the drugs ... and booze, he became pretty much a chain drinker of Remy Martin cognac, and probably everything aggravated by his getting hit in the head too many times... he basically lost his mind and began having paranoid delusions. He thought people were following him around and spraying poison gas on him. There are stories of him on the road covering up all the air vents in his hotel room, covering up the windows with cardboard, down on his hands and knees smearing mayonnaise on cracks above the baseboards, etc., to keep people from spraying the gas on him.

His son, who if I'm not mistaken is an attorney, had him committed to a mental hospital for a while. After that, he worked for a while as a greeter in Las Vegas, some of his friends set him up with that gig to try to help him because the IRS was still on his a**, they were as relentless on him as he was in the ring, and his debt was in seven figures. His mental problems were kept in check by medication, although there were some stories of him going off on the occasional tourist and accusing them of trying to gas him.

Toward the end, he collapsed physically, had an aneurysm and some strokes and ended up in wheelchair.

As I said, it's a very, very sad story. And it's one of the reasons I've always hated the IRS, not just because I believe in lower taxes. I mean, I believe that folks should pay their debts, but Joe Louis IMHO had enough markers for what he did for this country and the way he conducted himself as champion for so many years to where they didn't have to torment the man for 35 years the way they did, when he had no way to pay that debt, and IMHO if he gave the money away, every freaking penny of it, it should not have been fully counted as his income in any event, although I absolutely understand it was wartime and things were on a different scale. However, somebody should have realized after a while that you can't squeeze blood from a turnip and let it go.

49 posted on 06/28/2008 7:28:03 AM PDT by GB
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To: GB

Honestly sounds like Schmeling was a real hero.


50 posted on 06/28/2008 4:38:47 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (the media vs. the people.)
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