Posted on 07/02/2008 6:08:10 AM PDT by mware
July 2, 1863
The morning of July 2 found the two armies facing each other from two nearly parallel ridges separated by a plain of open farmland. Overnight, Longstreet had arrived with the divisions of McLaws and Hood, bringing the strength of the Confederate Army to 50,000. As of this morning, Pickett's division had not arrived. The Union Army had also received reinforcements during the night, bringing their numbers to over 60,000.
While Meade's attention was directed towards Ewell's corps on Culp's Hill to the north, Lee decided to attack from the south. In the afternoon, Hood's division encountered Federal forces with hand-to-hand combat in an area of rock-strewn confusion of large boulders known as "Devil's Den." The Confederates worked past Devil's Den and for a short time nearly overtook Little Round Top before being repulsed by the 20th Maine regiment. The Confederates withdrew to Devil's Den where sharpshooters kept up a deadly exchange with Federal troops on Little Round Top.
A little later in the afternoon, McLaw's division overpowered Sickles' Federals with hand- to-hand combat at the Peach Orchard and the adjacent wheat field. However, losses were great and the Confederate push lost momentum at the creek at the base of Little Round Top known as Plum Run.
Next, Anderson made a run on Hancock's center Federal position which had been weakened in an attempt to aid Sickles. The Confederates were successfully pushing towards the Federal's ridge position when Hancock ordered the First Minnesota regiment to counterattack. Although the First Minnesota suffered enormous casualties, they managed to give Hancock enough time to establish a new line of defense. Anderson's men had to withdraw to Confederate positions across the valley.
To the north, Ewell's divisions had some success with late afternoon attacks in and around Culp's Hill. Early's division temporarily broke through Federal lines as darkness fell, but with lack of support and Federal counterattacks, had to withdraw. Lee had come close to success causing Meade to consider a possible retreat. The 2nd of July 1863 became one of the bloodiest days in American military history with each side losing about 10,000 men.
Who has that stand watie resume handy?
YEP. i think that's the CORRECT answer.
fwiw, ask around the DC Chapter. everyone KNOWS who i am & what my credentials as a military planner/operative/officer are.(you might want to start with "Kristinn", "gunsareOK", "JimmyValentinesbrother" & "trooprally,before you start to look as SILLY & clue-LESS as the DUNCES of "the DAMNyankee coven" do.)
free dixie,sw
are you THAT clue-LESS or are you just being your usual ARROGANT, DAMNyankee, self???
free dixie,sw
fwiw, N-S (had he lived in the WBTS period & "been in charge" of DY war policy) would have KILLED everyone in both the north & south to keep dixie IN the union & under the boot-heel of the DAMNyankee financial/social/business elites.
in case you didn't know it, he is THE LEADER of the FR "DAMNyankee coven of lunatics, LEFTISTS, nitwits,REVISIONISTS, bigots & FOOLS". we southrons call him: "The Minister of DAMNyankee PROPAGANDA".
free dixie,sw
laughing AT you & the "DAMNyankee coven of BIGOTS, nitwits, SERIAL LIARS, FILTHY-talking LOUTS, antisemites & an OUTRIGHT RACIST".
free dixie,sw
....Thanks Stand Watie....lots of people these days like to appropriate freeing the slaves as if they did it themselves.
.....Hope you have a nice 4th...1st Va.Artillery is putting on a re-enactment down at our city park which I’m looking foreward to....takes considerable money to be an artilleryman these days....last price I saw for a 6 pounder reproduction was a cool $25,000....and that was just for the tube alone.
You made one somewhat reasonable suggestion, namely that Lee might still have won using guerrilla war against the North.
This was swatted down, pretty easily I thought, on grounds that:
First, anyone who knows anything about Lee knows such a thing would be impossible for him. Perhaps I could refer you to Lee's General Order Number 72 before the Gettysburg campaign?
Second, it was pointed out that one southern general, JB Hood, actually had that idea, and tried to do it, but soon gave it up for lack of interest.
Third, if there was any southern general with spirit and reputation to carry on such a fight, it would be Nathan Bedford Forest, and so far as I know, the closest he ever got to such a thing was founding the old Klu Klux Klan.
But I don't need to remind YOU of that, right?
Your 1875 predicition is just as baseless as your 1975 prediciton.
No, I’m talking about that resume that someone put together from all your wild claims about yourself. I wanted to be sure they added your strategery experience.
Hey, how’s it going on finding that page from Blackerby’s book. I thought you had a lady Freeper who was going to scan if for you? I’m all ready to disappear from FR and you’re delaying the show. And no doubt disappointing Stonewalls and 4CJ and rustbucket and lentulusgracchus and...
“You made one somewhat reasonable suggestion, namely that Lee might still have won using guerrilla war against the North.”
....irregulars can and do sucessfully wage wars of secession and partition...but they generally need three things:
1. support of the local population
2. sanctuaries in which to refit and rest
3. support of a third country for supplies
....I expect we’ll see variations on these themes in the coming Civil War...
I do. Lee's reasons for the Pennsylvania campaign were subject to the same level of revisionism that many of his other actions were. If you look at the correspondence between Lee and his superiors, and the recollections of Lee's subordinates at the time, then the reasons for the campaign become clearer.
First and foremost, Lee's army was in sad shape. Because of the inability of the confederate railroad system and the inefficiencies in the army quartermaster department (headed by an inept Davis crony named Lucius Northorp) the army had to live off of Virginia and it was literally starving. The state was tapped out, and the army had been on short rations most of the winter; in April the daily ration was 4 ounces of salt beef per man. In March the army was suffering from an outbreak of scurvey, of all things. The army livestock was, if anything, in even worse shape. This problem had been complicated by a drought which had hit Virginia in 1862, and the spring on 1863 had been too wet which held the promise of another poor harvest.
Lee also suffered from a lack of manufactured goods. Armies don't just run off weapons and munitions. Lee's army suffered from a lack of the basics. Everything from shoes and clothes for the men to mundane items like harnesses and curry combs and horseshoes were almost impossible to come by.
Kent Masterson Brown's book contains numerous contemporary quotes from Lee's subordinates on the invasion, and the intent was clear. Lee was on a raid. His intent, in addition to keeping Davis from frittering his army away in a vain attempt to save Vicksburg, was to take his troops into Pennsylvania for a couple of months to live off the Yankees. In addition to food, he intended to strip the countryside of every item of use to his army. Correspondence between Lee and is commanders during the pre-Gettysburg part of the campaign show a great deal of attention paid to reporting exactly what goods and supplies they had gathered to date. In the back of his mind Lee may have known that a successful campaign in the North might have a political benefit, but he also had to know that any campaign a year before the elections could well be forgotten by an election day 18 months later. He also had to know that any pitched battle in the North would also bring to an end his plan to supplying his army. So a major battle in the North was the last thing he wanted.
The Mau Mau uprising. The Malayan uprising. The Philippine uprising of the early 20th century. The Biafra uprising. All put down by the government.
I see you’re applying that remonstration to swattie as well.....not!
stand watie needs all the help he can get. Professional help, IMHO. But any old port in a storm.
for the benefit of the lurkers, some information on one of the
few academicians that truly inspire awe:
Joshua Chamberlain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Chamberlain
At the outbreak of the American Civil War, Chamberlain wished to
enlist, but the Bowdoin College administration felt that he was too
valuable to the college faculty. Chamberlain was granted a leave of
absence (supposedly to study languages for two years in Europe),
but then promptly enlisted.
snip
For his tenacity at defending Little Round Top he was known by the
sobriquet Lion of the Round Top.
snip
In all, Chamberlain served in 20 battles and numerous skirmishes,
was cited for bravery four times, had six horses shot from under him,
and was wounded six times.
snip
Thus Chamberlain was responsible for one of the most poignant scenes
of the Civil War. As the Confederate soldiers marched down the road
to surrender their arms and colors, Chamberlain, on his own initiative,
ordered his men to come to attention and “carry arms” as a show
of respect.
snip
Chamberlain’s salute to the Confederate soldiers was unpopular
with many in the North, but he defended his action in his memoirs,
The Passing of the Armies.
snip
He was the last Civil War veteran to die as a result of wounds from
the war.[7]. A full study of his medical history strongly suggests that
it was complications from the wound suffered at Petersburg that
resulted in his death.[8]
when NBF discovered that ACTIVE actions against the oppressors was NOT to be the GOAL, he VERY PUBLICLY left the group. (as i'm sure you know.)
may i also suggest Wade Hampton as another possible guerrilla leader or perhaps Smith P. Bankhead???
the TRUTH is that a prolonged guerrilla action against the DYs would have worked. further, as you evidently have NO credentials/experience as a military planner/operative in such an environment, your opinion is just that: UNKNOWING opinion.
as for whether Lee COULD have done what i suggested, he COULD have. he CHOSE not to. furthermore, the "Johnny Rebs" would have followed him to HELL, had he asked.
finally, President Davis did NOT issue the order to do so, so we'll never really know.
free dixie,sw
Even more so when the number of Kill in Action is 3597 [through June 2008], with about 900 being lost due to OTHER than hostile action with the enemy. [Natural causes etc]
NOBODY except the most hate-FILLED/stupid of the motley crew of "useful idiots"/bigots/fools/serial liars/LOUTS & DUMB-bunnies that comprise "the DAMNyankee coven" EVER believed anything that "etypejag" posted. NOBODY.
laughing AT anyone who was STUPID enough to believe "etypejag". (you are NOT stupid, thus you are just patently DISHONEST, but then everyone here KNOWS that, so your reputation cannot be harmed by rehashing gossip/lies/FOOLishness.)
free dixie,sw
Exactly. All the claims you've made over the years. All the lies, half-truths, and the rest.
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