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FLINT’S ROUTE HELD A MILITARY SECRET BY NAZI OFFICIALS (10/30/39)
Microfiche-New York Times archives, McHenry Library, U.C. Santa Cruz | 10/30/39 | Camille M. Cianfarra

Posted on 10/30/2009 5:08:16 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson

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TOPICS: History; Religion
KEYWORDS: catholic; milhist; realtime; worldwarii
Free Republic University, Department of History presents World War II Plus 70 Years: Seminar and Discussion Forum
First session: September 1, 2009. Last date to add: September 2, 2015.
Reading assignment: New York Times articles delivered daily to students on the 70th anniversary of original publication date. (Previously posted articles can be found by searching on keyword “realtime”.)
To add this class to or drop it from your schedule notify Admissions and Records (Attn: Homer_J_Simpson) by freepmail. Those on the Realtime +/- 70 Years ping list are automatically enrolled. Course description, prerequisites and tuition information is available at the bottom of Homer’s profile.
1 posted on 10/30/2009 5:08:16 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
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To: r9etb; PzLdr; dfwgator; Paisan; From many - one.; rockinqsranch; GRRRRR; 2banana; henkster; ...
The European Situation – 1
Flint’s Route Held a Military Secret by Nazi Officials – 1-2
Britons Assail Government ‘Controlitis’; Commons to Hear Criticisms of Bureaus – 2
A German Scouting Expedition that Ended on a Scottish Hillside
Pope Issues Call to All Christians to Defend Religion – 4-5
Incidents in European Conflict – 5
Anniversary Marked by Turkish Republic – 5
2 posted on 10/30/2009 5:09:59 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.onwar.com/chrono/1939/oct39/f30oct39.htm

Soviet annex former Polish lands
Monday, October 30, 1939 www.onwar.com

In Moscow... The USSR formally annexes the occupied Polish territories.

In Berlin... A German-Latvian treaty for the evacuation of Germans from the Baltic regions is signed.

In the North Atlantic... U-56 hits the British battleship HMS Nelson, the flagship of the Home Fleet, west of the Orkneys but the two torpedoes fail to explode.

In Britain... The first war film of the conflict, The Lion Has Wings, is premiered, featuring newsreel of a British air attack on a German fleet.

In London... A government white paper exposes Nazi brutality towards dissidents and Jews, including the concentration camp system.


3 posted on 10/30/2009 5:20:12 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: abb

http://www.uboat.net/boats/u56.htm

30 Oct 1939. One of 4 German U-boats operating west of the Orkneys U-56 locates the British battleships Nelson, Rodney and Hood with 10 destroyers and attacks. Torpedo failure ruins the favorable attack chance.


4 posted on 10/30/2009 5:21:26 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Interesting as always Homey.

I wonder if any of our aviation aficionados can identify that downed German reconnaissance a/c?


5 posted on 10/30/2009 5:23:53 AM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono-01BB-Nelson.htm

October 29th

When west of the Orkneys returning from the operation, the force, comprising HM Battleships NELSON and RODNEY, HM Battlecruiser HOOD, and HM Destroyers ICARUS, IMPULSIVE, IVANHOE, INTREPID and KELLY ran into a line of 4 U-boats. U.56 fired three torpedoes at NELSON and all three struck the target, two broke upon hitting and the other failed to exploded.

The crew of NELSON were unaware of the attack.


6 posted on 10/30/2009 5:26:39 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: Tainan
The wrecked reconnaissance plane shot down by 4 british airships.

terminology caught my eye. Would airships and planes mean different things at that time?
7 posted on 10/30/2009 5:53:48 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple ( Seeking the truth here folks.)
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To: PeterPrinciple
Good question. It might be a term used to refer to dirigibles or blimps used as sky patrols during this period. Could be either powered or tethered to the ground. Mny of these were manned by gun crews. Some, unmanned, were just floated up to crowd the sky and hopefully entangle and/or discourage enemy a/c from an area.
This is a guess on my part.
8 posted on 10/30/2009 6:25:00 AM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus)
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To: Tainan
It's a Heinkel He-111 This must have been a high priority photo recon, as these bombers had just come in to service, and were quite valuable.
9 posted on 10/30/2009 6:27:27 AM PDT by tcrlaf ("Hope" is the most Evil of all Evils"-Neitzsche)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

NAVAL EVENTS-Monday, 30 October

Two cruisers were on Northern Patrol between the Orkneys and the Faroes, three cruisers between the Faroes and Iceland, and one cruiser and three armed merchant cruisers in the Denmark Strait.

_____

U.59 sank armed boarding vessel NORTHERN ROVER (655grt, Lt M H Macpherson Rtd) on patrol in Fair Island Channel near Kirkwall. She had brought Danish steamer NAJADEN (1963grt) in to Kirkwall for examination on the 30th, left her at the gate and returned to patrol. There was no further contact and she was lost with Lt Macpherson, A/Sub Lt G B Grey, RNR, T/Lt A E White, RNVR, T/Sub Lt G A R Darlow, RNVR and twenty three ratings.

_____

Destroyers GRENVILLE and GIPSY of the 1st Destroyer Flotilla arrived at Plymouth after departing Alexandria on the 14th, reaching Malta on the 19th, and leaving Gibraltar on the 22nd with convoy HG.4.

_____

As Admiral Forbes was returning to Loch Ewe after escorting a group of iron ore ships from Narvik to the Firth of Forth, battleships NELSON and RODNEY, battlecruiser HOOD, and destroyers ICARUS, IMPULSIVE, IVANHOE, INTREPID and KELLY ran into a U-boat line west of the Orkneys. U.56 fired three torpedoes at NELSON and while all three struck the target, none exploded. U-boats U.57, U.58, U.59, also in the area, did not contact the Home Fleet units. Admiral Forbes arrived back at Loch Ewe on the 31st without further interference.

_____

Convoy BC.13S of fifteen ships, including DELIUS (Commodore), GRETA FORCE, GWENTHILLS and SANDHILL departed Bristol Channel escorted by destroyers EXPRESS and VIVACIOUS, and safely arrived in Quiberon Bay on 1 November.

_____

Convoy AXS 3 of one steamer departed Fowey, escorted by destroyer VESPER, and arrived at Brest on the 31st.

_____

Convoy SA.15 of two steamers departed Southampton, escorted by destroyers SCIMITAR and SARDONYX, and arrived at Brest on the 31st.

_____

Convoy FN.29 departed Southend, and arrived at Methil on 1 November.

_____

Convoy FS.29 departed Methil escorted by destroyer VIVIEN and sloops BITTERN and FLEETWOOD, and arrived at Southend on 1 November.

_____

U.13 torpedoed steamer CAIRNMONA (4666grt) out of convoy HX.5B west of the Orkneys. She was taken in tow by tug ENGLISHMAN, and sank, still in tow at 1638/30th. Three crew were killed.

_____

U.37 sank Greek steamer THRASYVOULOS (3693grt); twenty two crew were missing and six survivors rescued by Norwegian steamer HAVMOY (1342grt).

_____

Heavy cruiser EXETER arrived in the Falkland Island after leaving her patrol on the South American east coast on the 27th.

_____

Light cruiser ORION departed Kingston, and arrived back on 8 November.

_____

On the 30th, the 8th Submarine Flotilla was formed at Colombo with submarines OLYMPUS, OTUS and ODIN under the command of Commander S M Raw for operations against German raiders and supply ships thought to be operating in the Indian Ocean. The three submarines departed Singapore on the 24th and arrived at Colombo. Submarine REGENT departed Singapore to join the Flotilla on the 30th.

However, on arrival at Colombo, she was found to have defects and was ordered back to Singapore. She departed Colombo on 6 November and arrived back on the 11th. The final submarine of the Flotilla, ORPHEUS, was under repair at Hong Kong, left there on 5 December and joined them at Colombo on the 14th.


10 posted on 10/30/2009 6:35:17 AM PDT by tcrlaf ("Hope" is the most Evil of all Evils"-Neitzsche)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

COnvoy Command Summary Report-30 October 1939:

At the end of October, the following destroyers were out of service:

-AFRIDI at Newcastle for repairs,
-AMAZON at Portsmouth for repairs,
-ARROW at Portsmouth with defects,
-BOREAS at Portsmouth for repairs,
-DIAMOND at Singapore for repairs,
-DIANA at Malta for repairs,
-ECHO at Plymouth with damage,
-ECLIPSE at Plymouth with defects,
-ENCOUNTER at Plymouth for repairs,
-FAULKNOR at Clyde for repairs,
-FORESTER at Clyde with defects,
-FORTUNE at Clyde for repairs,
-FURY at Clyde with defects,
-GARLAND at Malta for repairs,
-GRAFTON at Plymouth for boiler cleaning,
-IMOGEN at Liverpool for repairs,
-INGLEFIELD at Liverpool for repairs,
-JAVELIN at Middlesbrough for repairs,
-MASHONA at Tyne for repairs,
-MOHAWK at Newcastle for repairs,
-MONTROSE at Plymouth for boiler cleaning,
-NUBIAN at Southampton with defects,
-SABRE at Grangemouth for repairs,
-SIKH at Malta for repairs,
-VANOC at Liverpool for repairs,
-VANQUISHER at Plymouth for repairs,
-VETERAN at Chatham for repairs,
-VISCOUNT at Plymouth for boiler cleaning,
-WALKER at Plymouth with defects,
-WALPOLE at Liverpool for boiler cleaning,
-WARWICK at Liverpool for repairs,
-Canadian OTTAWA at Esquimalt refitting,
-RESTIGOUCHE at Esquimalt refitting,
-SKEENA at Halifax refitting.


11 posted on 10/30/2009 6:39:24 AM PDT by tcrlaf ("Hope" is the most Evil of all Evils"-Neitzsche)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

F.d.U./B.d.U.’S War Log-Admiral Donitz
30 October 1930

Situation reports received from U 25 and U 34, thus the French Admiralty’s claim can only refer to U 40, whose radio is apparently out of action. It is not at all impossible however, that the reports are connected with the loss of U 16 off Dover.

U 25 has only observed slight neutral single-ship traffic and torpedo boats or patrolling destroyers.

convoy off the west entrance to the Channel, torpedoed 3 others, but could not observe results owing to anti-S/M activity. She is returning because of a crack in the inner compensating tank.


12 posted on 10/30/2009 6:42:30 AM PDT by tcrlaf ("Hope" is the most Evil of all Evils"-Neitzsche)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

HOLOCAUST PROJECT TIMELINE:

October 30, 1939: Himmler instructs to have about a million people transported from the Generalgouvernment. Half Jews, half Poles.


13 posted on 10/30/2009 6:45:06 AM PDT by tcrlaf ("Hope" is the most Evil of all Evils"-Neitzsche)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

German Air Victory/Shootdown Claims
30 October 1939

-Joachim Hinkelday, Staffel 5/JG53, Blenheim over East Trier
-Hanz Lange, Staffel 1/JG21, Blenheim over Gross Bersem/Emsland
-Werner Molders, Stab III, JG53, Blenheim, Klusserrieth, NE Trier
-Erwin Swallisch, Staffel4/JG77, Blenheim, Over NE Helgoland

Not a good day for the British Recon guys....


14 posted on 10/30/2009 7:07:56 AM PDT by tcrlaf ("Hope" is the most Evil of all Evils"-Neitzsche)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Do you know what the fate of the City of Flint was?


15 posted on 10/30/2009 7:17:07 AM PDT by HOYA97 (Hoya Saxa = What Rocks)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

FOOD RATIONING is introduced in Switzerland on 30 October, 1939.

The following are rationed:
Sugar, pasta, leguminous plants, rice, wheat and corn semolina, flour, oats and barley products, butter, edible fats, food oils


16 posted on 10/30/2009 7:27:52 AM PDT by tcrlaf ("Hope" is the most Evil of all Evils"-Neitzsche)
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To: HOYA97
Do you know what the fate of the City of Flint was?

Reply - #7 10/9/39 Courtesy of abb. I believe the State Department managed to suppress news of the seizure for 15 days. The story broke in the Times on 10/24.

SS City of Flint.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SS City of Flint, a freighter of the United States Merchant Marine, was the first American ship captured by the Germans during World War II. Under the command of Captain Joseph H. Gainard, City of Flint first became involved in the war when she rescued 200 survivors of the torpedoed British passenger liner SS Athenia on 3 September 1939. The Athenia was torpedoed by the German submarine U-30 that afternoon, and sent out a distress signal. Several ships responded. The Captain of HMS Electra, LCDR Sammy A. Buss, was Senior Officer Present, so he took charge. He sent the destroyer HMS Fame on an anti-submarine sweep of the area, while Electra, another destroyer HMS Escort, the Swedish yacht Southern Cross, the Norwegian cargo ship Knute Nelson, and the City of Flint rescued the survivors. Between the ships, about 980 passengers and crew were rescued; only 112 people were lost, and Athenia sank the next morning.

On 9 October 1939, City of Flint was carrying 4000 tons of lubricating oil from New York to Britain while marked as a neutral ship. The pocket battleship Deutschland seized her some 1200 miles out from New York, declaring her cargo to be contraband and the ship a prize of war. A fifteen strong German prize crew painted out all US insignia and hoisted the German ensign.

To avoid the Royal Navy, the prize crew headed for Tromsø, arriving on 20 October 1939. The Norwegians, neutral at the time and disturbed by the sinking of the merchant SS Lorentz W. Hansen, refused entry to the Germans, giving them 24 hours to leave. The RNoN destroyer HNoMS Sleipner escorted the City of Flint out of Norwegian territorial waters at 1620 hrs the next day.[1]

The prize crew then sailed for Murmansk, claiming havarie (the privilege of sanctuary for damage caused at sea). The ship lay in Murmansk harbor under the control of the German prize crew for several days and was eventually sent out by the Russians, who stated that if the Germans claimed havarie, the American crew could not be prisoners of war.

In the several weeks that elapsed, the United States ordered many US merchant ships to register with other countries, so as to continue supporting the Allies without violating the US’s nominal neutrality. The Royal Navy began closing on the captured ship.

The prize crew then tried Norway again, the port of Haugesund. The Norwegian government again refused entry, describing the German crew as kidnappers. The approaching Royal Navy left the prize crew no choice, though; on 3 November they entered the harbor. The Norwegian Admiralty dispatched the minelayer HNoMS Olav Tryggvason and boarded the City of Flint with its second in command, captain B. Dingsør and thirty armed sailors, who on 6 November returned City of Flint to Captain Gainard’s command. He unloaded his cargo in Bergen and set sail in ballast for the US. The German prize crew was interned at Kongsvinger Fortress.

City of Flint continued in service in the Atlantic until she was sunk on 23 January 1943.

17 posted on 10/30/2009 7:31:07 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Monday, 30th October 1939

Bridlington..
At 17.20 a mine was washed ashore and exploded against the sea wall at Bridlington. There were no casualties, but windows, doors and roofs of 9 or 10 detached houses were damaged.

Day 58. All times BST. Blackout ends: 08.03, begins: 17.35


18 posted on 10/30/2009 7:38:47 AM PDT by tcrlaf ("Hope" is the most Evil of all Evils"-Neitzsche)
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To: PeterPrinciple

The plane is a Heinkel 111. I think recon at that time was done by Dornier 17s.


19 posted on 10/30/2009 7:46:19 AM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

30 October 1939-

U.S. freighter Scanpenn is detained by British authorities at Kirkwall, Orkneys; freighter Hybert is detained by British authorities at the Downs the same day

British corvettes HMS Calendula & Clarkia and submarines HMS Upholder, Urge & Unique laid down.

USN Corvette USS Ready laid down.

British AMC HMS Cheshire commissioned.

Submarine S-4 commissioned.

U-56 attacked the Home Fleet and hit battleship HMS Nelson with torpedoes that failed to explode.

German submarines U-409, U-410, U-411, U-412, U-451, U-452, U-453, U-454 ordered.


20 posted on 10/30/2009 8:00:05 AM PDT by tcrlaf ("Hope" is the most Evil of all Evils"-Neitzsche)
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To: PeterPrinciple; Tainan

I believe “airship” is just an antiquated term for “airplane.” I have heard characters in movies of the thirties refer to their craft as “my ship.” General news reporters seem to be uneducated as to the technical aspects of the tools of war. I’ll bet they are more savvy by this time next year. By then they will have been through the Battle of Britain so they will know a Stuka from a Messerschmidt from a Heinkel.


21 posted on 10/30/2009 8:05:22 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

believe “airship” is just an antiquated term for “airplane.” I


But the headline uses the term plane and airship. Maybe they didn’t want to repeat themselves........


22 posted on 10/30/2009 8:09:20 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple ( Seeking the truth here folks.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
From "Seekrieg" 30 October, 1939 Hitler approves the sale to the Soviet Union of the Cruiser Lutzow, and "Aircraft carrier "B"" to the Soviet Union, along with six 15-inch guns, four 6 inch guns and fire control facilities of the planned but now canceled contracts for Battlecruiser "O" "P" and Cruiser "M".
23 posted on 10/30/2009 8:11:12 AM PDT by tcrlaf ("Hope" is the most Evil of all Evils"-Neitzsche)
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To: PeterPrinciple
Airship was a term for a dirigible, like the Hindenburg
24 posted on 10/30/2009 8:11:54 AM PDT by AbnSarge
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To: AbnSarge
Airship was a term for a dirigible, like the Hindenburg

Then that was a pretty amazing feat for 4 dirigibles to shoot down a bomber...................
25 posted on 10/30/2009 8:16:34 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple ( Seeking the truth here folks.)
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To: AbnSarge; PeterPrinciple; Tainan
Airship was a term for a dirigible, like the Hindenburg

So a formation of four British dirigibles shot down the Heinkel?

26 posted on 10/30/2009 8:17:53 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Thank you very much!!


27 posted on 10/30/2009 8:19:15 AM PDT by HOYA97 (Hoya Saxa = What Rocks)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Here's a report on world views on the Neutrality Bill along with an update on the City of Flint.

CBS - Elmer Davis Reports on Neutrality Bill

28 posted on 10/30/2009 12:36:27 PM PDT by CougarGA7 (My tagline is an honor student at Free Republic Elementary School.)
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To: HOYA97; CougarGA7

For more on the Flint listen to the broadcast Cougar posted at #28. The Flint affair was a big monkey wrench the Germans threw into the middle of our neutrality debate. To judge the significance the press attached to it, consider that the sinking of the liner Athenia, with much loss of life, was the headline for one day. The City of Flint, one lousy freighter with a load of lubricating oil, has been the top story for a whole week and it is not over yet.


29 posted on 10/30/2009 1:40:36 PM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
While screaming..."Curse You Red Baron!"

..Snoopy Rules the Sky!.

You're probably right Homer about the 'airship' term. I have also read it used in the manner you describe. I was just throwing out a guess. Dirigibles and blimps were fairly common at this stage of aviation history. Also know as "balloons." I think the structural type - rigid walls or soft walls - was a determining factor in the exact name/type of a/c they were called.
I also like - 'Lighter than air vehicle.'....lol
30 posted on 10/30/2009 4:03:57 PM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus)
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To: tcrlaf

Thyanks for the ID on the recon a/c.


31 posted on 10/30/2009 4:07:12 PM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

I beg for your forgiveness.

I did not realize it was one of your historical articles which I love. I e-mail them to my relatives who also enjoy them. I also did not look at the date of the article or the sender (you).

The last three days have been stressful but interesting. Just before your kind post, I opened one from a religious FR freak that was trying to sell me religion. I have nothing against religion. I just don’t like it when it is being rammed down my throat. I lost it at that point and couldn’t see strait after that.

Thank you for all those historical articles you continue to send me.

I continue asking for your forgiveness and please send any all articles even if contains team sports.

My best regards to you.

I’m sorry and ashamed at my outburst.


32 posted on 11/01/2009 9:26:58 AM PST by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Oppseeeee. Forgive me again. I was refering to “NFL Week 7 Results (10/30/39)”

It looks like I’m still a tad stressed out today.

It will pass. I’m okay. I’m looking forward to tomorrow.


33 posted on 11/01/2009 9:34:55 AM PST by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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