Posted on 11/11/2009 5:34:19 AM PST by Saije
Some reviewers have called "Saving Private Ryan," Steven Spielberg's World War II film about D-Day and the search for a soldier, one of the greatest war movies.
Military historian Antony Beevor begs to differ.
Not only is it not the greatest war movie, it's not even the best cinematic depiction of D-Day, says Beevor, author of the newly published "D-Day: The Battle for Normandy" (Viking).
He admires the famed Omaha Beach opening -- "Probably the most realistic battle sequence ever filmed," he said -- but described the rest of "Saving Private Ryan" as "ghastly."
"It's sort of a 'Dirty Dozen' cliche of the worst form," he said.***
Beevor says a director would do well to remember that the Allied effort to retake the continent extended well beyond that single day of June 6, 1944.
"D-Day, although an iconic moment, was not actually the end of it. Films like 'The Longest Day' and 'Saving Private Ryan' almost give the impression that D-Day was 'it' and then the next thing people know about was the liberation of Paris," he said. "But in fact it was the fighting in Normandy which was far worse. Casualties on D-Day were far lighter than expected -- [military leaders] had expected 10,000 dead and only 3,000 died.
"The real fighting and the real casualties," he added, "came in the Battle of Normandy."
So what does Beevor prefer in the way of a Hollywood treatment of D-Day? Another project Spielberg had a hand in, "Band of Brothers."
"On the whole I think [it] was pretty close to the truth," Beevor said of the 2001 HBO miniseries, which Spielberg and Tom Hanks executive produced. He called it "incomparably more realistic" than "Saving Private Ryan."
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
Patton was actually targeted as an anti-war movie when it was produced. However, the performance of George C. Scott was so overwhelming, that any pretense of the intended message was immediately dropped after its release.
Mine is Kelly’s Heros. The fun part of the movie is that every sterotype is portrayed. “What kind of deal”, “A deal deal”.
Though not a film, Band of Brothers is the best depiction of WWII from a realistic, historical perspective, IMHO.
We Were Soldiers
The book is nearly always better than movie, and the book can’t capture it all either. There is a country song about a kid who finds a bunch of black and white photos of his grandfather and buddies durring WWII and asks about the experience. His Grandpa says “you should have seen it in color.” My Grandpa was mustard gassed in WWI and came to under a bunch of bodies being hauled back in a cart. Hard to describe, for one thing, the smells associated with war are missing from books and movies, thank goodness, we’d have people throwing up in theaters. Saving Private Ryan was pretty good, Band of Brothers being a smaller scale unit was more realisitc, longer too. On this vetrans day, let’s be glad that those who experinced the real thing, make it possible for us to view war as entertainment.
He’s talking from the perspective of historical accuracy, not dramatic quality. Two different things.
Love the movie personally.
“Band of Brothers” beats “Saving Private Ryan” on realism becase the former is based on real events, while the other is a fiction devised for its dramatic effect.
Personally, I find them both enjoyable, and watch them whenever my wife seems able to tolerate them :)
The opinion of anybody who mentions The 317th Platoon as a great war movie should begiven a little bit more weight than you give him credit for.
That was Vietnam...you know, the war John Kerry was in...
Enough with the negative waves...
Big Joe mocking “We ain’t got no booze...” is the common line for my brother and I when we’re together.
A Bridge Too Far is still my favorite war movie, but Kelly’s Heroes ranks right up there. Band of Brothers is definitely top-notch.
What”s wrong with school teachers? You think school teachers didn’t go to war? You think they can’t be or weren’t heroic too? What job would you have preferred the hero to have?
Please allow me to draw your attention to the fact that Joshua Chamberlain was a college professor.
Same here.
“BOB” is one of the best, with the most well-developed storylines and characters. “SPR” was good, but it was sort of a stereotype (NY accents, token jew, etc.)
However, I think the American-centric take tends to short-change our views on the subject.
“Das Boot”, anyone? Amazing movie.
Or how about the more recent, “Stalingrad”.
Great films from other countries that were fighting WWII for a few years more than the US.
Different takes, different action.
I wish their would be another first class movie about the “Battle of the Bulge”.
Concur!
The school teacher “twist” was one of the more realistic and humanizing parts of the movie. Just an average guy, like 99.99% of those who served.
I agree that the opening sequence is unforgettable.
Nothing wrong with them, I'm married to one. It's just the absolutely leftist liberal dogma that the public schools are force-feeding the youngsters. "obama mmmmmmm mmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmm."
Gag a maggot!! The teacher's national organization and academe in general is run by burned-out 60's hippie dope-smokers like schpielberg.
“That was Vietnam...”
...just sayin’ my favorite “war movie”.
I prefer Band of Brothers on both counts. Better drama, WAY WAY more accurate.
I’m looking forward to the made-for-HBO series on the war in the Pacific that’s supposed to be coming out soon.
That said, Band of Brothers is a work of art. I've got the DVD box set and would recommend it highly.
Happy Veteran's Day. Remember our heroes.
“Battleground” may have been the best treatment of the Battle of the Bulge...
Crapgame: “Maybe he’s a Republican.” (speaking about the Tiger tank commander)
LOL
I’ve always liked “Battleground” though I’ve never seen the beginning.
When I was in 6th grade our teacher read us Guadal Canal Diaries over a period of several weeks.
Yeah, I know, they don’t do stuff like that anymore.
From the viewpoint of pure special effects..before the era of computer generated stuff..my vote is for "Battle of Britain"..amazing aerial photography..using real vintage WWII planes...at the time the movie was being made, the studio as said to possess the 3rd largest air force on the planet.
My personal favorite is one that rarely turns up on the tube.."The Cruel Sea", based on Nicholas Monserrat's novel..about the crew of a Royal Navy corvette, and battles against U-boats. One of the rare instances where the film was very faithful to the novel, and almost as good.
“Victory at Sea 2?”
ah, gotcha... :)
“Yesterday’s Enemy”: a good “hidden” British WWII film about action in Burma. While it goes into the anti war mode, it was gritty and had good actors from what I recall. Been awhile since I have seen it, tho’...
Or "Enemy at the Gates" - the first thirty minutes of that movie is even more gut-wrenching than the opening of Private Ryan - where the poor conscripts are stuck between the machine guns of the Nazis and the machine guns of their commanders.
My favorite scene in that film is when the returning soldiers are flying over thousands of mothballed bombers..actual footage.and one says to the other.."Man, could we have used those a few years ago.."
Big Joe talking about..."if I hear any more talk about going down to headquarters and killing the general, or raping the nurses at the field hospital is going to be in big trouble!"
Always with the negative waves......
“Maitland, did you LOSE my aerial photographs?”
Band of Brothers is also a much longer film in many segments. Hard to put the entire Battle of Normandy into a single 2 or 3 hour movie. I think SPR was very good for what it was trying to do. I also love Band of Brothers. But this guy is really comparing apples to oranges.
Beevor’s an excellent historian, and he’s speaking from that perspective.
His book “Stalingrad: The Fateful Siege” is a great read, you truly get the feel for the conditions.
He also wrote about the only readable (comprehensible) account of the Spanish Civil War, which IMO is quite a feat.
Both excellent choices.
I've watched some pretty extensive interviews with Francis Ford Coppola about how the movie came into being. Efforts to tell Patton's story on film started in the late 50's early 60's but there was little progress until the late 60's when the country had taken a more decidedly anti-war/anti-military stance. According to Coppola, the marketing was kept somewhat ambiguous so that younger movie goers would come to view Patton as a rebel who bucked the system, while more conservative folks would view him in the more traditional war hero role. Obviously it worked as the movie sold well with all demographics. I enjoy Patton, but for my money, A Bridge Too Far is a better movie.
Band of Brothers was incredible. I think it’s one of the greatest pieces of film, ever.
Having said that, my FAVORITE war movies aren’t necessarily the best ones.
“Battle of the Bulge” for Robert Shaw’s performance.
“Stalag 17”, “The Great Escape”, “Battleground”, but most of all, my all-time favorite war movie, “Sargeant York”.
But, as a whole it was a pretty good movie. Not the best war film, but that list of 5-star historically accurate no fault war movies is a very very very short list.
Yeah, I know, they don’t do stuff like that anymore.
You guys are good - I am laughing at the number of quotes from Kelly’s Heros. My son and I watched it and the Dirty Dozen about a month ago. He is eight and I explained to him that they were some of the best movies of WWII. He ate them up.
Oddball: “I don’t know whats makes them go, I just drive them, wof wof”.
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