Reality rules!
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Congrats Boeing!
Posted on 12/15/2009 6:49:58 AM PST by skeptoid
Boeing released the first artist's conception of what it then called the 7E7 on Jan. 29, 2003. The company's board green-lighted the project that December and Japan's All Nippon Airways placed the jet's launch order on April 26, 2004, with first deliveries expected in 2008.
Boeing now has orders for 840 787 Dreamliners -- a record for a new aircraft. And Tuesday's scheduled first flight is key to showing the composite jet is on track for delivery to All Nippon Airways in the fourth quarter of 2010 and other customers soon after that.
That delivery date, however, depends on an extremely ambitious schedule of flight testing and certification.
(Excerpt) Read more at blog.seattlepi.com ...
This would have to be made relatively cheaply, and it appears that Boeing finally found a way.
It surprises me that it took them this long to seriously consider the use of composites.....
It's not surprising in a time when you have to attract investors to a technology untried in that setting and worry about multi-billion lawsuits if something goes wrong. Even as it is a lot of detractors said it was too soon to try it in a commercial airliner, so kudos to Boeing for taking the chance.
In any case, Boeing was already working on such massive use of composites for the Sonic Cruiser in the 90s, and applied that research to the 787. It's kind of sad that hub-and-spoke killer never took off.
They’re not forming entire fuselage sections, autoclaving them, stuffing them and flying them intercontinentally to final assembly, which is targeted to be accomplished in 3 days per aircraft.
I used to work at Boeing back in the early 80s before I got a case of the stupid and quit. They didn’t call it the Lazy B Ranch for nothing. A couple of jokes going around at the time:
Question: How many people work at Boeing?
Answer: About half of them.
Boeing Workers- Never have so many, done so little, for so much.
Carbon is expensive because there is only one company making the fiber and the technology used to make that fiber is proprietary. The military also has first dibs and that leads to spot shortages of materials, too. We sometimes have to wait months for a particular weave of carbon cloth.
What everybody had better hope is that they've figured out a way to contain the fiber splinters if one of these ever fails structurally due to a forced landing. Carbon turns into a pin cushion when it fails. Survive the crash only to be impaled by carbon splinters.....
All this is technology gained from military applications and it's been being done for a long time. Perhaps it is new to you. As I said, I suppose I'm just not as easily impressed as you are.....
Maybe they found a way to stress it or something? The wing load test (bend it, often until it breaks) didn't result in the explosion of carbon fiber that many were expecting. The worst that happened on the first test was a little delamination. Their design seems to be very strong yet flexible. I would ask how, but doing that with carbon fiber is probably a trade secret, right?
Paine Tower
120.2 132.95 256.7 [0700-2100]
Paine Ground
121.8 339.8 [0700-2100]
Wow, what a sight to see. I watched it take off live.
Reality rules!
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Congrats Boeing!
“Hello, Boeing? This is the Air Force. We need a new bomber design in ninety days or we’re sunk.”
“Sorry, General, no can do. It takes seven years to get a new airplane off the ground at Boeing.”
“Oh. Well, I’ll pass that on to the enemy, then. Sorry we bothered you.”
The contract for the B-29 was solicited in January, 1940. The first flight was in September of 1942. ‘Nuff said.
“Hello, Boeing? This is the Air Force. We need a new bomber design in ninety days or we’re sunk.”
“Sorry, General, no can do. It takes seven years to get a new airplane off the ground at Boeing.”
“Oh. Well, I’ll pass that on to the enemy, then. Sorry we bothered you.”
The contract for the B-29 was solicited in January, 1940. The first flight was in September of 1942. ‘Nuff said.
Not excusing Boeing’s screwups on this thing, but back in 1940 how much of the government alphabet was around? (I wish I could find that freeper list of all the new organizations). A few of the groups that combine for the delays would be OSHA, EPA, IRS, the Unions, etc.
The Empire State building was built real quick (about a year I think?) Compare that to the 9/11 memorial buildings (is that even going anywhere 8 years later?) Granted, we don’t need a bunch of worker’s killed like on the Empire State Building (OSHA), but it would be nice to at least get started!
Not quite enough, because in 1943 the prototype aircraft crashed on takeoff during flight test in Seattle and killed all 10 onboard and lots more on the ground, despite Eddie Allen being the pilot.
This was due to an engine fire. The early 3350's were prone to catch fire, and if not immediatly extiquished, the B 29 wing could fail in 90 seconds.
Even after the type entered service, losing a single engine on takeoff at max takeoff weight too often ended in a fireball on the airfield (which was dealt with by bulldozers ASAP if there were more bombers waiting to take off).
My point is that the B-29 took several years to mature and was a killer for some time after it was deployed. So the time between conception and first flight was relatively short, but the design was immature and its development cost many, many lives, and was not really reliable until the 4360 came along after the war.
Comparing the B-29 to the 787 is about like comparing a '34 Ford flathead to an '08 Veyron (street legal, 253mph, 0-100-0 mph in 9.9 seconds).
Bingo. A running joke around those of us who work with plastic airplanes is: If aircraft manufacturers were trying to get aluminum approved today would the FAA approve a material that corrodes in air, fatigues to the point of failure with minimal vibration and is prone to cracks? Probably not.
Yep. What we usually see is Kevlar or plain weave fiberglass used around any area, like the cockpit, where there will be occupants.
I saw a video clip once of a carbon windsurfing mast being tested to failure that really drove the point home. Essentially, they bent it nearly in half. Instead of snapping in half like you would expect at a midpoint along the mast, it exploded, throwing carbon shards in all directions, leaving hundreds and hundreds of individual carbon spines sticking out in all directions.
Way to go Boeling, better late then never! Pretty Bird.
The same thing happened to a friend, although with glass reinforced composites, not carbon fiber. He was hit hard in a car that had a body made of the stuff, and the composite front-end basically exploded. He was picking glass bits out of his clothes for weeks.
The B-29 also didn't have to be certified for commercial air travel or meet more stringent operating cost targets. It was also essentially in "production development" as production planes were still being heavily modified right after roll-off two years later. It wasn't really a finished plane until 1945, essentially making a five-year development time. Boeing can't afford the problems the initial B-29s had, including common engine fires, when selling to commercial airlines.
About the only serious technological leap the B-29 made was the fire control system. The pressurized cabin technology came from the earlier Boeing 307 civilian airliner.
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