Posted on 01/10/2010 5:41:32 PM PST by Colofornian
IDAHO FALLS -- Rex Rammell has had a change of heart regarding who is invited to his "elders of Israel only" meetings.
At a press conference Thursday, the Idaho gubernatorial candidate issued a formal apology with regards to his exclusion of non-Mormons from his upcoming meetings dealing with the so-called "White Horse Prophecy."
Reading from a prepared statement, Rammell said he was wrong to assume that nonmembers of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints wouldn't be interested in hearing his message.
"To all those citizens who are not members of the LDS faith, who have expressed a sincere interest in attending my meetings and discussing this prophecy and how we can step forward and save the United States Constitution, I would like to apologize and invite them wholeheartedly to join us," said Rammell.
Rammell also says that he hopes that the meetings will bring people of all faiths together to "unite in a common cause ... to save the Constitution."
"The theme of my campaign has been, will be, and as governor, will always be states' rights," Rammell told reporters. "And so, you don't have to be LDS to contribute to that discussion, and I think they will contribute greatly."
The LDS Church has issued a statement distancing itself from Rammell. The church also does not consider the prophecy, which is said to have come through its founder, Joseph Smith, as doctrine.
Although Rammell's controversial meetings have made regional and state-wide news for several weeks, earlier this week, the controversy was picked up by various national media organizations, including the DrudgeReport.
Rammell's first meeting will be on Jan. 19, at the Hampton Inn in Idaho Falls at 7 p.m. A subsequent meeting will be held in Rexburg on Jan. 21, at the Marriott Hotel at 7 p.m.
The events are free and open to everyone.
For more information about Rex Rammell or his campaign, visit www.voterammell.com.
I was riding around with some Mormons today and they swore up and down my information is wrong.
I would be availed the opportunity, while in “Spiritual Prison” to be trained in God(not sure they meant Christ or whatever)
learned that I cannot enter heaven without believing in Joseph Smith,
Am I cracked or what?
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You are not cracked. lol.
I am a bit surprised they admitted that much.
The LDS have a unofficial policy of denying doctrines “we don’t believe that” with non members. They justify it by saying “gentiles (non members) would not understand” or “milk before meat”. Some of the doctrines are not openly taught even around members who have not yet been through the temple.
Some of the more forthright members will tell non-mormons the truth but with a caveat.
For example, when I was LDS, if a non-member who wouldn’t really know doctrines/history of the LDS had said to me “Mormons believe Jesus and Satan are brothers”. My first response (knee jerk) would have been “we don’t believe that”. But it has more to do with what they said vs. what I meant. A difference in definitions. For example: “Saved by grace” means something ENTIRELY different to Christians than it does to Mormons.
If someone who knew LDS doctrine and could back up an assertion asked me if I believed “Jesus and Satan were brothers”, I would have responded with a “Yeah...but...”.
The “Yeah, but” is that the LDS believe Jesus and Lucifer (don’t use the term Satan) are SPIRIT brothers, in the exact same way we are ALL spirit brothers and sisters. According to the LDS all spirits were born to Heavenly father and mother, this includes Lucifer and Jesus.
Because of this doctrine, Jesus (first born) is usually referred to as our “elder brother”. But technically Lucifer (second born) is our “elder brother” as well.
The LDS do not believe in a literal Hell. Therefore those who have never heard/accepted the LDS gospel will have a chance in “spirit prison” to accept Mormonism. Then it will be required that they are baptized/confirmed and had the Endowment rituals done for them here on earth. This is where the LDS temple rituals for the dead come in.
As far as accepting Joseph Smith to get into heaven, there have been some LDS prophets/leaders have taught that we must have permission of JS to get into the celestial kingdom. But the more common thinking today is that in order to get into Heaven (the Celestial Kingdom)you must accept the LDS Gospel which means, by necessity, accepting Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Restoration.
When discussing LDS doctrines with the LDS, make sure that you are familiar with differences in terminology and be very precise in your questions/statements. Be prepared to back up Christian doctrine with verses and be aware of the context of the LDS “proof” texts. Almost always, their so called “proofs” can be easily rebutted by looking at the context of the verse.
Hope this helps.
Tiki: I will be praying for your granddaughter.
I just could not believe my ears. As if someone were telling me a fairytale knowing full well there is no Easter Bunny but still expecting an adult to believe their fantastic story.
It was a bastardization of all sects prior to LDS and that other churches had committed some grave errors which caused their bible to rewritten many times.
And yet, Joseph Smith interpreted his amazing find among the mummies in one writing session, over a period of 90 days.
What an amazing man. /s
That Joseph Smith is some kinda archeology wizard. Apparently he came into some mummies, which just happened to have the scrolls of Abraham in them. He was given two “RoonStones” or something like that, which made it possible for him to interpret the scrolls perfectly and “Only” one time over the course of 90 days.
Really? Where are those?
Apparently a museum in New York found some scrolls, recognized them as belonging to the Mormon and they gave them to the Mormons.(Can’t find anything to corroborate that fantastic story)
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Here is a book called “By his own hand upon papyrus” -
http://irr.org/MIT/bhoh-pt1.html
It goes into detail about the Book of Abraham.
Also here are several articles on the Book of Abraham.
http://utlm.org/topicalindexb.htm#Book%20of%20Abraham
IIRC, the “Rune stones” (urim and thummim) were with the Book of Mormon, not the Book of Abraham. By this time, JS was claiming the ability to translate on his own. The mummies were purchased and there were scrolls with them. The scrolls were lost for many years and believed to have been destroyed in the Chicago Fire. However, they were found in a NY museum and turned over to the LDS church who now has them in their possession.
As if someone were telling me a fairytale knowing full well there is no Easter Bunny but still expecting an adult to believe their fantastic story.
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Yep. I have, for the most part, gotten over my self-deprecation for falling for the LDS “sales pitch”.
Those who are born in the LDS church and grew up in it always can say “well, i was never taught anything different”. Converts, like me, have to get over feeling so stupid to believe in it.
My “excuse” was I was a love sick teenager who was not a Christian and had little knowledge of the Bible. :)
So the scrolls are real and the same ones JS interpreted?
Yep. They are part of the Egyptian “Book of Breathings”, and have absolutely no resemblance to what JS claims to have “interpreted” (the Book of Abraham).
Part of my quest to prove the “anti-mormons” wrong when I was LDS was attempting to “prove” the Book of Abraham. In my attempt to do this I went so far as to take Egyptian Hieroglyph courses at UCLA.
I personally KNOW for sure, that there is no resemblance between the scrolls and JS’s translation that is in the LDS cannon. There is no doubt the BoA is a fraud.
Another thing I don’t understand is how the Mormons and several other friends insist, passionately, that I was Baptized a Baptist.
I have told them over and over, you will not find among the Protestants any imprimature for that belief.
I was baptized in a church as an outward expression and witness of my rebirth through Christ. I was not baptized into a church(Baptist, Presbyterian, etc.)
No, they didn’t want to wrap their head around that either.
“You were baptized a Baptist”. I had to assert, my pastor telling me what the baptism was about and its symbolism. However, it has nothing to with my salvation and my salvation is intact upon my acceptance of Jesus Christ, as my Lord and Savior.
Oh, and apparently those little stories, erh, parables, are supposedly true. I asked how they could make such an outlandish statement as they are in fact described as parables. “Nope, nope. They are real stories”.
Okay, they are allegories or compositions of almost any family and the outcomes. But, they are not real with the names and places being changed to protect the innocent.
Hey, I bank at BofA.... Oh, wait you said BoA. LOL
You are hurting my head and I am not use to discussions with anyone as well read as I. Not that I am a knower of all but you are all so informed.
How did you come to have so much knowledge about JC, JS, BY etc?
Only you and your total family...........
I had to inform them, I know of no Christians who do not believe in the literal word of God. In fact, my Mom has a little plaque on her wall saying:
“God said it,
I believe it,
That settles it.”
To be sure it helps to understand the Bible more accurately with a guide of historical content and languages but literally, there is no other practical way to interpret the Bible.
Naw, just license plates.
You are hurting my head and I am not use to discussions with anyone as well read as I.
How did you come to have so much knowledge about JC, JS, BY etc?
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I will take that as a compliment. And I didn’t mean to give you a headache. :)
I did a lot of research while I was LDS, feeling I had to “catch up” with my friends who were born in the LDS. Even after only being a member a couple of years, I knew more than many friends who were born in the Church. They would come to me with questions they would have.
When I was LDS, I set out to be an LDS apologist, to prove the “anti-mormons” wrong. After almost a year of study (almost full time), I realized that I could no longer defend the LDS church. All of the inconsistencies and cover-ups piled up. The “anti’s” were, by far, more accurate and truthful than the LDS church was. That was almost 20 years ago.
Since I became a Christian, shortly after leaving, the Lord has put it on my heart to witness to the LDS. Part of that witness is being well informed on their history/doctrines.
Also, I am a historian by training and trade, so research is second nature to me. :)
Thanks-you...for what you do.
Another thing I don’t understand is how the Mormons and several other friends insist, passionately, that I was Baptized a Baptist.
I have told them over and over, you will not find among the Protestants any imprimature for that belief.
I was baptized in a church as an outward expression and witness of my rebirth through Christ. I was not baptized into a church(Baptist, Presbyterian, etc.)
No, they didn’t want to wrap their head around that either.
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For the LDS, baptism is the first step in membership in a church. They believe being “born again” is becoming a member of the LDS. It has nothing to do with what Protestants consider being “Born Again”, they don’t grasp the Lordship of Christ or salvation by grace through faith. In fact, they often make fun of it.
To them, the only reason a person would be baptized is to join a church. There is no point in it otherwise.
They will say that it is also for the “forgiveness of sins”, but they back themselves into a corner on this.
They do not accept any non-LDS baptism as valid, so “remission of sins” only applies to LDS baptism. This makes sense for converts, but at the same time you MUST be become a member of the LDS church in order to be baptized for the “remission of sins”. There is no separation.
For children born in the LDS church, they are baptized at age 8. The LDS teach that until they reach that age, they do not know right from wrong and therefore cannot sin. So here their argument that baptism for the “remission of sins” falls apart. If children have no sins until they are eight years old, why are they baptized at age eight
to wash away non-existent sins?
Awww...Thank you.
They know certain things have been and many things have continued to be taught by their leaders; some undercover; and yet they try to distance themselves.
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Very true and a good part of the reason it is so difficult to witness to the LDS sometimes.
I was also told that our faith doesn’t believe the word of God is literal. Nearly, had me on the floor laughing.
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I find this particularly ironic since the LDS selectively use bible verses out of context for their “proof texts”, read things INTO biblical texts (eisegesis), and say the believe the Bible, then turn right around and say that the Bible isn’t reliable and cannot be trusted.
HUH???
I totally meant it as a compliment.
Their deceit is unbelievable.
Thank you so much for your work.
They all claimed to be christian today, while saying they are the only true church of Christ.
I don’t understand how you(they) can be the only true church of christ.
Christ is, as he is and as he will or shall ever be.
I am working toward Js’ statement that all others are apostacy and need to figure a clever trap of agreement and spring the surprise on them and when I do, it will be an insurmountable statement that cannot be refuted.
It needs to be done in such a way that is not insulting but shines such a bright light that is in irrefutable.
I will find it.
Their statements do not make sense.
Their Twinity, of God and Jesus appearing as men, is just so much nonsense.
I have been instructed to read something, that upon my reading it and asking God for word and truth of its reading, will leave me with no other choice but to accept the word of their Seer as the gospel of god.
I forget, at this time what they asked me to read, to confirm their belief system. But, I will read it tomorrow.
Thank you again from a Christian for Jesus.
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