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Canned foods??? Forget everything you've been told...
FDA | ~1997 | Dale Blumenthal

Posted on 05/20/2010 2:01:14 AM PDT by djf

I was doing some net search about shelf life and things and found a reference to the following article that used to be on the FDA website.

Here is a link to the wayback machine record of it:

http://web.archive.org/web/20070509153848/http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/CONSUMER/CON00043.html

The Canning Process: Old Preservation Technique Goes Modern by Dale Blumenthal

The steamboat Bertrand was heavily laden with provisions when it set out on the Missouri River in 1865, destined for the gold mining camps in Fort Benton, Mont. The boat snagged and swamped under the weight, sinking to the bottom of the river. It was found a century later, under 30 feet of silt a little north of Omaha, Neb.

Among the canned food items retrieved from the Bertrand in 1968 were brandied peaches, oysters, plum tomatoes, honey, and mixed vegetables. In 1974, chemists at the National Food Processors Association (NFPA) analyzed the products for bacterial contamination and nutrient value. Although the food had lost its fresh smell and appearance, the NFPA chemists detected no microbial growth and determined that the foods were as safe to eat as they had been when canned more than 100 years earlier.

The nutrient values varied depending upon the product and nutrient. NFPA chemists Janet Dudek and Edgar Elkins report that significant amounts of vitamins C and A were lost. But protein levels remained high, and all calcium values "were comparable to today's products."

NFPA chemists also analyzed a 40-year-old can of corn found in the basement of a home in California. Again, the canning process had kept the corn safe from contaminants and from much nutrient loss. In addition, Dudek says, the kernels looked and smelled like recently canned corn.

The canning process is a product of the Napoleonic wars. Malnutrition was rampant among the 18th century French armed forces. As Napoleon prepared for his Russian campaign, he searched for a new and better means of preserving food for his troops and offered a prize of 12,000 francs to anyone who could find one. Nicolas Appert, a Parisian candy maker, was awarded the prize in 1809.

Although the causes of food spoilage were unknown at the time, Appert was an astute experimenter and observer. For instance, after noting that storing wine in airtight bottles kept it from spoiling, he filled widemouth glass bottles with food, carefully corked them, and heated them in boiling water.

The durable tin can--and the use of pottery and other metals--followed shortly afterwards, a notion of Englishman Peter Durand. Soon, these "tinned" foods were used to feed the British army and navy.

21 Billion Cans a Year

Canned foods are more than a relic dug from the past. They make up 12 percent of grocery sales in the United States. More than 1,500 food products are canned--including many that aren't available fresh in most areas, such as elderberry, guava, mango, and about 75 different juice drinks. Consumers can buy at least 130 different canned vegetable products--from artichokes and asparagus to turnips and zucchini. More than a dozen kinds of beef are canned, including beef burgers and chopped, corned and barbecued beef.

According to a recent study cosponsored by the U.S. Department of Agriculture and NFPA, canned foods provide the same nutritional value as fresh grocery produce and their frozen counterparts when prepared for the table. NFPA researchers compared six vegetables in three forms: home-cooked fresh, warmed canned, and prepared frozen.

"Levels of 13 minerals, eight vitamins, and fiber in the foods were similar," says Dudek. In fact, in some cases the canned product contained high levels of some vitamins that in fresh produce are destroyed by light or exposure to air.

The Canning Process

Food-spoiling bacteria, yeasts and molds are naturally present in foods. To grow, these microorganisms need moisture, a low-acid environment (acid prevents bacterial growth), nutrients, and an appropriate (usually room) temperature.

Dennis Dignan, Ph.D., chief of FDA's food processing section, explains that foods are preserved from food spoilage by controlling one or more of the above factors. For instance, frozen foods are stored at temperatures too low for microorganisms (bacteria, yeasts and molds) to grow. When foods are dried, sufficient moisture is not available to promote growth.

It is the preservation process that distinguishes canned from other packaged foods. During canning, the food is placed in an airtight (hermetically sealed) container and heated to destroy microorganisms. The hermetic seal is essential to ensure that microorganisms do not contaminate the product after it is sterilized through heating, says Dignan. Properly canned foods can be stored unrefrigerated indefinitely without fear of their spoiling or becoming toxic.

Canning for a New Age

Dignan also notes that foods packaged in materials other than metal cans are considered "canned" by food processing specialists if the food undergoes the canning preservation process. Thus, today a canned food may be packaged in a number of other types of containers, such as glass jars, paperboard cans, and plastics that can be formed into anything from pouches to soup bowls to serving trays.

For example, FDA consumer safety officer Tom Gardine, holding up a small, plastic container of half-and-half for his morning coffee, says, "This is a canned food." He explains that the coffee creamer was heated to destroy bacteria and sealed to prevent microorganisms from entering the sterile container. Until it is opened, the creamer is intended to be stored on the shelf, not in the refrigerator.

Meals for today's U.S. military come in plastic pouches--a new version of the heavier C-rations in metal cans. Such flexible pouches aren't as popular with American civilians as they are with Europeans. Many Americans, instead, are buying their canned foods in plastic containers that come with a peel-off metal top and plastic lid--ready for the microwave. Barriers (made of sophisticated synthetic materials) that provide an airtight seal are sandwiched in these plastic layered containers. They are used for applesauce, pudding, and other foods that can be stored on supermarket or home shelves for years.

Then there are containers made of new transparent plastic materials like polyethylene terephthalate--used for peanut butter and catsup. Packages made of paperboard layers have been designed in the shape of boxes to contain such foods as fruit juices, tomato sauce, and even milk.

Even the tin can is changing. For years, the three-piece can (made from a top, a bottom, and a body formed from a plate soldered into a cylinder) was the only can around. Now there are two-piece cans, which eliminate the side seam and one seamed end. These cans are made by feeding metal into a press that forms the can body and one end into a single piece.

In the traditional three-piece cans, a welded side seam has replaced the lead-soldered side seam in all but 3.7 percent of American cans, says NFPA official Roger Coleman. The welding process uses electrodes that apply pressure and electric current to overlapping edges at the side seam. These new seams eliminate concern about lead leaching into metal canned foods. In the 3.7 percent of U.S. cans where lead still is used, it is often for dry foods (such as coffee) packaged in cans, according to Coleman. Leaching is not a concern here.

Many imported cans, however, still bear lead-soldered side seams. To tell whether a can has been soldered with lead, first peel back the label to expose the seam. The edges along the joint of a lead-soldered seam will be folded over. Silver-gray metal will be smeared on the outside of the seam. A welded seam is flat, with a thin, dark, sharply defined line along the joint.

Turning Up the Heat

Foods with a naturally high acid content--such as tomatoes, citrus juices, pears, and other fruits--will not support the growth of food poisoning bacteria. In tests, when large numbers of food poisoning bacteria are added to these foods, the bacteria die within a day. (The exact amount of time depends upon the bacteria and amount of acidity.) Foods that have a high acid content, therefore, do not receive as extreme a heat treatment as low-acid foods. They are heated sufficiently to destroy bacteria, yeasts and molds that could cause food to spoil.

Canners and food safety regulators are most concerned about foods with low acid content, such as mushrooms, green beans, corn, and meats. The deadly Clostridium botulinum bacterium, which causes botulism poisoning, produces a toxin in these foods that is highly heat-resistant. The sterilization process that destroys this bacteria also kills other bacteria that may poison or spoil food.

Low-acid canned foods receive a high dose of heat--usually 107 degrees Celsius (250 degrees Farenheit) for at least three minutes. (The amount of time the food is heated, though, depends upon the size of the container and the product.) The canned food is heated in a retort, a kind of pressure cooker.

The coffee creamer on Gardine's desk, however, was packaged differently. Although both the half-and-half and plastic container were sterilized with heat, they were heated separately and then brought together in a sterile environment where the container was filled and sealed. The advantage of this "aseptic processing," a type of canning, is that higher temperatures with reduced heating times prevent deterioration in the quality of the food.

Aseptic processing is the "wave of the present and the future," says Gardine. It is now used for liquids, and scientists are on the way to perfecting the method for canning stews and chowders. However, says Gardine, because solid foods may be more difficult to keep sterile during the filling and sealing period, FDA is being especially cautious in approving uses for aseptic processing.

Finessing the Attack on Food Spoilers

Another critical element in the canned food process is sealing products in air-tight containers. It is essential that air be removed from the container before sealing. Air could cause the can to expand during heating, perhaps damaging the seals or seams of the container.

A telltale sign of loss of this vacuum--and a possibly contaminated product--is a can with bulging ends. (See accompanying article.) If a seal is not airtight, bacteria may enter the can, multiply, and contaminate the product.

The hermetic seal finesses the canning process. The bacteria in a food and container are killed through heating, and at the same time new bacteria are kept from contaminating the food.

The distinction between the canning process and food handling before processing is an important one for food processors and regulators. Last February, 22 students at Mississippi State University became ill after eating omelets made with canned mushrooms imported from China. Similar outbreaks followed in New York and Pennsylvania, affecting more than 100 people. FDA identified the culprit as staphylococcal enterotoxin, a poison produced by the bacteria Staphylococcus aureus.

FDA's investigation suggests that poor sanitation caused the problem, and that the mushrooms were contaminated with staphylococcal enterotoxin even before they were canned. The canning process did not destroy the substance because food preservation processes are not normally designed to destroy staphylococcal enterotoxin, a highly heat-resistant toxin.

Since this incident, FDA and the Peoples Republic of China have been working together to determine the source of the contamination. However, FDA authorities still are preventing mushrooms canned in China from entering the United States. And, says Gardine, FDA is focusing attention on sanitation procedures in imported foods.

Surpassing Napoleon

The canned food principle that won Nicolas Appert his prize of 12,000 francs has endured over the years. What might surprise Appert, however, is how his discovery is making food shopping and storing easier for the 20th century consumer.

Those who order coffee at fast food restaurants now also are served canned half-and-half, which has been transported and stored without concern about refrigeration. Hikers can take flexible pouches of canned food on backpacking trips without having to worry about saving water to reconstitute freeze-dried meals. And, in this society of microwave owners, Americans who don't have time to prepare a well-balanced meal can pick up a plastic container filled with a canned, nutritious dinner.

Dale Blumenthal is a staff writer for FDA Consumer.


TOPICS: Food; Health/Medicine
KEYWORDS: canned; cannedfood; canning; food; foods; foodstorage; preppers; preps
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1 posted on 05/20/2010 2:01:14 AM PDT by djf
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To: djf
Wayback Machine:
2 posted on 05/20/2010 2:23:20 AM PDT by maddog55 (OBAMA, Why stupid people shouldn't vote.)
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To: djf

Modern canned foods you need to be wary of BPA. Generally the result of acidic interaction and leeching from the lining of the can. Older canned tomatoes, chuck em.


3 posted on 05/20/2010 2:24:49 AM PDT by allmost
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To: allmost

If we ever get in to survival mode, tell ya what.

I’ll eat my canned tomatoes.
You can watch.


4 posted on 05/20/2010 2:31:11 AM PDT by djf
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To: djf

Just saying. Thought it relevant. Some people recycle their canned goods in a continuous stock mode.


5 posted on 05/20/2010 2:32:59 AM PDT by allmost
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To: djf

Bump!


6 posted on 05/20/2010 2:34:24 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (There is no right to do wrong. Those who claim there is destroy the foundations of true liberty.)
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To: allmost

No, you’re right, I shoulda added a ;-)

But there have been alot of discussions lately about survivalism and stockpiling and people getting worried about shelf life of stuff.
So I thought people would be interested.

I admit I never et no 100 year old peaches.
But I saw a dame in Portland, Or. once who had them...


7 posted on 05/20/2010 2:36:12 AM PDT by djf
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To: djf

Hundred-year-old oysters ?


8 posted on 05/20/2010 2:37:00 AM PDT by ComputerGuy (HM2/USN M/3/3 Marines '66-'67)
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To: djf

Thank you for posting, interesting article. When we moved into our house 2 years ago there were rows and rows of canned food in the basement. Most of the dates I found on them were the late 70s early 80s. My son took some to his ag ed class and they said that they still tasted good (if I recall correctly it was peaches and green beans). This from my son that wont drink the milk the day before the sell by date. There was also meat that had been canned that had lost all the liquid in the jar, ewww.


9 posted on 05/20/2010 2:39:42 AM PDT by momto6
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To: djf
This doesn't seem to be the site to go to for historical nuances in the canning process. ;)

Was just typing out loud and bumping your thread. An important topic IMO.
10 posted on 05/20/2010 2:40:39 AM PDT by allmost
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To: ComputerGuy

Although the food had lost its fresh smell and appearance, the NFPA chemists detected no microbial growth...


11 posted on 05/20/2010 2:41:54 AM PDT by djf
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To: allmost
My daughter's a bone marrow transplant patient. She must have a low bacteria diet because of her compromised immue system.

The dietitians say to serve her "all the wrong food." They mean prepared, prepacked, canned, individual portion sort of stuff.

Thus, she gets precisely the sort of diet that I would never normally serve my kids. Stuff like canned ravioli, etc.

12 posted on 05/20/2010 2:42:15 AM PDT by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: billorites
I don't know, from personal experience with cleaning out some older canned foods limit the tomato based. I love tomatoes, but you can taste it. Beyond any documentation I've read.
I was just putting that out in general.

Old cans are generally the last thing anyone wants to eat.
13 posted on 05/20/2010 2:46:39 AM PDT by allmost
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To: momto6

I’ve eaten dill pickles from canning jars that were canned AT LEAST ten years before I tried them.

They were totally fine.

I generally try to rotate my stored goods but once in a while you slip up and I opened a can of spagetti sauce that was about 5 years past the expiration.

Except for it looked as though a small amount of the water had somehow evaporated out (it was about a 1/4 inch from the top), it was totally fine and had no off-odor or color or texture ate all. It was spagetti sauce. Of course, it is by nature a high acid food.


14 posted on 05/20/2010 2:47:13 AM PDT by djf
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To: billorites

i grew up on canned ravioli -

in college - we’d buy a no 10 can - toss it in the fridge and thats what we’d eat for the week - spending the rest of our money on whisky

im a cook by trade now - but there is still a comfort aspect to that stuff despite how nasty it is

best wishes and prayers for you and yours


15 posted on 05/20/2010 2:47:19 AM PDT by Revelation 911 (How many 100's of 1000's of our servicemen died so we would never bow to a king?" -freeper pnh102)
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To: billorites

Raw garlic if she can stand it.


16 posted on 05/20/2010 2:48:50 AM PDT by allmost
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To: ComputerGuy
"Hundred-year-old oysters?"

You think that's scary? I'm kinda' worried about that Desert Storm era tuna fish and noodles MRE in my emergency food stocks. When the time comes, I think I'll eat that last, after I've tested it on the cat...nope, I'll eat the cat.
17 posted on 05/20/2010 2:51:49 AM PDT by PowderMonkey (Will work for ammo)
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To: Revelation 911
You're right. Stuff like canned mac & cheese, Spaghetti O's, etc. makes you feel like you're home again.

Some stuff is actually improved by canning. Canned corn has to be everyone's favorite.

Then there's the transformational effect of canning. Canned peas barely resemble fresh ones. But boy, they hit the spot.

For that matter I've been very pleased with canned beer over the years.

18 posted on 05/20/2010 2:53:06 AM PDT by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: djf
I've got canned pickles and relish from at least three dead people on the bottom shelf of my fridge.

We're still eating piccalilli put up my Mrs. C. 5 years ago.

My mom passed away in 2001, but her jalapeno pepper jelly lives on.

19 posted on 05/20/2010 2:55:44 AM PDT by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: djf
Thanks for posting this article.

I will link to it tomorrow morning on the Weekly Gardening thread.

There are a lot of FReepers growing and canning their own foods and they will find this thread interesting.

20 posted on 05/20/2010 2:55:53 AM PDT by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: PowderMonkey

A can of Ham & Muthas from ‘67 ought to have reached critical mass by now.


21 posted on 05/20/2010 2:57:54 AM PDT by ComputerGuy (HM2/USN M/3/3 Marines '66-'67)
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To: ChocChipCookie

BTTT !


22 posted on 05/20/2010 3:08:49 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: djf

...of course; we ALL know about Spam...


23 posted on 05/20/2010 3:11:22 AM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: esquirette

survival bump


24 posted on 05/20/2010 3:19:30 AM PDT by RightField (A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.)
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To: billorites
We went into my grand-mom basement last Thanksgiving and found a gallon of dandelion wine she made. Mind you grand-mom passed on in 1976.

Good Lord NASA could use that stuff as rocket fuel.

It made for an interesting Thanksgiving evening.

25 posted on 05/20/2010 3:31:55 AM PDT by mware (F-R-E-E, that spells free, Free Republic.com baby.)
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To: djf

Back in the day (few of years ago)canned food would have undecipherable manufacturer codes - now they have use by dates and they are pretty short lived(most under 2 years)

The longest sell by code dates I’ve seen lately (on regular store-bought cans) are on Goya canned fruit juices - they go past 5 years.

Is this new practice of dating canned foods for safety or to sell more canned foods?


26 posted on 05/20/2010 3:49:53 AM PDT by libertarian27 (Ingsoc: Department of Life, Department of Liberty, Department of Happiness)
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To: who knows what evil?
"...of course; we ALL know about Spam..."

BUT I DON'T LIKE SPAM!!


27 posted on 05/20/2010 3:50:08 AM PDT by BlueLancer (I'm getting a fine tootsy-frootsying right here...)
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To: djf

A lot of those “expiration” dates are there because FDA requires them and the manufacturers are happy to use them in order to sell more.


28 posted on 05/20/2010 3:50:59 AM PDT by arthurus ("If you don't believe in shooting abortionists, don't shoot an abortionist." -Ann C.)
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To: nw_arizona_granny

*ping*


29 posted on 05/20/2010 4:21:04 AM PDT by hennie pennie
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

ping.


30 posted on 05/20/2010 4:28:00 AM PDT by rightly_dividing
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To: djf
There have been several of these ‘survival’ and ‘expiration date’ threads on FR.

Good information.

I started rotating some canned/boxed items. I had moved more to a fresh fruits & veggies diet for a while, so I had some shelf items that were several years old.

I use a common sense approach:

= Make sure the can isn't damaged to allow air/bacteria in. That includes any rust or corrosion spots, which can happen in a humid environment.

= Make sure the can isn't bulging.

= When opened, smell it. If there is questionable odor or discoloration, dump it. Some foods are more susceptible to shorter shelf life.

For boxed items, dry pasta can probably last centuries, as long as it is kept from any humidity. Boxed products that contain ‘rising’ elements (yeast/baking powder) have a shorter shelf life.

I now use a marker to ‘date’ items so the ‘date’ is easily visible. I just mark 10, 11, 12, etc., for the year and shelve in year groups. That way, I can quickly glance to see which items may be getting near the expiration.

Because I live in a humid environment and because many boxed items have contents in paper, rather than plastic envelopes. Insects can bore through the paper into the product, so I put those items in plastic zip bags for storage. That keeps them humidity and bug free.

[Note: This does not always dissuade rodent creatures from chewing through, so if rodents are a problem, place the items in a protective container.]

31 posted on 05/20/2010 5:15:54 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: djf

Ball glass jars and lids to increase in sales?.


32 posted on 05/20/2010 5:33:29 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: djf
The steamboat Bertrand museum is in a national wildlife preserve about 8 miles west of Missouri Valley, IA just off of I-29. It is well worth the stop if you are driving on I-29 and the birds flocking in the fall of the year are an added bonus.

The steamboat was a floating hardware store and in addition to food stuffs was carrying hundreds of other items all remarkably preserved.

33 posted on 05/20/2010 5:42:01 AM PDT by The Great RJ ("The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money'" M. Thatcher)
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To: rightly_dividing
one of my favorites to can is Chicken legs. You can usually find them on sale. De bone by pressure cooking for 15 min. Solid pack in pint jars cover with stock and process at 15# for 30 min. I usually get 6 jars of meat and 5-8 jars of stock, Usually at a cost of about $5. Of course it still tastes more or less like chicken. I was able to save the meat in the freezer during the power outages of Hurricane Rita & Ike. since I don't have a garden, I don't usually do vegetables unless I can find frozen ones on sale. A pressure cooker. is a valuable tool in the coming hard times.
34 posted on 05/20/2010 5:49:04 AM PDT by barb-tex (REMEMBER NOVEMBER!!! Slim as it may be, it is our last hope.)
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To: ComputerGuy
LOL! "MEAL,COMBAT,INDIVIDUAL" Though appreciative of their nutritional value, I still can't choke down a spoonful of limas.
35 posted on 05/20/2010 5:49:44 AM PDT by PowderMonkey (Will work for ammo)
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To: TomGuy

RubberMade tubs are good for stockpiling.


36 posted on 05/20/2010 5:56:24 AM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: ComputerGuy

I occasionally enjoyed them, but only very occasionally.

You’re right, though...if I came on a can of them now I’d have to be starving to risk it.


37 posted on 05/20/2010 6:01:32 AM PDT by x1stcav (Charter member of the Yukon Army..)
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To: x1stcav; PowderMonkey

The other Corpsman in my platoon would eat them, but only if they were made by Oscar Mayer. I still rag on him about being a culinary snob. As for me, I never had to eat any. My diet consisted mainly of Turkey Loaf and Ham & Eggs, Chopped.


38 posted on 05/20/2010 6:20:15 AM PDT by ComputerGuy (HM2/USN M/3/3 Marines '66-'67)
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To: AFreeBird

Rubbermade tubs - that’s what I use.

I have over 20 of them full of beans, pasta, crackers, gravy mixes, you name it...


39 posted on 05/20/2010 6:34:15 AM PDT by djf
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To: nina0113

FYI.


40 posted on 05/20/2010 6:36:41 AM PDT by Steve1789 (Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. -A.L.)
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To: djf
Canners and food safety regulators are most concerned about foods with low acid content, such as mushrooms, green beans, corn, and meats.

Pickling can overcome those concerns.

41 posted on 05/20/2010 6:38:00 AM PDT by JimRed (To water the Tree of Liberty is to excise a cancer before it kills us. TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: allmost; decimon; blam; SunkenCiv
>>>> "Modern canned foods you need to be wary of BPA. Generally the result of acidic interaction and leeching from the lining of the can. Older canned tomatoes, chuck em." <<<<

You have made a very interesting point, it caught my eye, because recently I've seen miscellaneous plastic bottles with prominent labels, proclaiming, "BPA FREE" --- so now I am wondering if the really old canned food tested by the U.S. Army was just FINE because there was no BPA in use some 50/60 years ago????

I wonder how long it is SAFE to eat canned tomatoes, nowadays?? Seriously.... what amount of BPA is leeched into our canned foods, and how soon does the leaching occur?

42 posted on 05/20/2010 6:41:19 AM PDT by hennie pennie
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To: ComputerGuy; x1stcav
Tabasco

Covers a multitude of sins...might be good with that cat.
43 posted on 05/20/2010 6:41:22 AM PDT by PowderMonkey (Will work for ammo)
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To: djf

We have 3 plus acres planted and so does my son in law......we will can like mad, save seeds and buy cabinets to use as pantries, just in case.


44 posted on 05/20/2010 6:41:34 AM PDT by Kakaze (Exterminate Islamofacism and apologize for nothing....except not doing it sooner!)
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To: Kakaze

I was ready to give home canning a try.
But I gotta admit, botulism scared the pants off of me!!


45 posted on 05/20/2010 6:44:16 AM PDT by djf
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To: djf

My wife has been doing it for over 30 years, She is meticulous. Take it slow and you will be fine.


46 posted on 05/20/2010 6:47:15 AM PDT by Kakaze (Exterminate Islamofacism and apologize for nothing....except not doing it sooner!)
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To: allmost

I agree - it’s important. Especially in what might become unstable times. Also, food safety matters...


47 posted on 05/20/2010 6:47:19 AM PDT by GOPJ (Americans..speak of capitalism's glories(rather)than of socialism's greatness. Elena Kagan (thesis))
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To: Kakaze

Does she use a pressure cooker?


48 posted on 05/20/2010 6:49:34 AM PDT by djf
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To: PowderMonkey
Tobasco Used to be aged in the cask for seven years, or so they said. I personally prefer Louisiana Hot Sauce which is Cayenne instead of Tobasco.
49 posted on 05/20/2010 6:51:22 AM PDT by barb-tex (REMEMBER NOVEMBER!!! Slim as it may be, it is our last hope.)
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To: djf
Does she use a pressure cooker?

Absolutely.

I'll have to get her to put the procedure up here.......she's never posted before but this might make her step in:)

50 posted on 05/20/2010 6:53:31 AM PDT by Kakaze (Exterminate Islamofacism and apologize for nothing....except not doing it sooner!)
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